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When I married my wife, I took a vow. I vowed that I would stand by her for better or for worse, rcoaster (or words to that effect). I can honestly say that this past year has been on the for worse side of our marriage banghead. I have thought several times of running away (disappearing and never talking to her again and cutting all contact with mutual family and friends). I've considered other things that are deep and dark and don't even really want to think of anymore.
But I took a vow. A vow that doesn't mean when things are broken, or times are tough - I can't just throw her away, and start over. I've tried plan A, and got as far as writing a plan B letter....and I've done some of the things suggested here by people, but didn't feel comfortable with some of the things people said I had to do if I wanted to save my marriage. Would it have worked confused? I don't know - I didn't do it.
Did I give my best effort? No naughty. I can't say that I did. I went from being angry, to wanting to "kill" twoxfour (figuratively) someone, to wanting to be free from the relationship....knowing all the time that it wasn't really what I wanted.
I don't know what the right thing is? I can't afford counseling. I don't fit into a nice little box that I can just open a book and pull out a solution. I wish I was more confident in myself - but ultimately need to make a plan to win her back. I make plenty of mistakes and trust few people to really give me sound advice. I want to trust again....I just don't know if I ever will.
There is so much more I want to say - and don't even know if I have expressed myself today in the way I'm actually feeling?
Simply put: I love my wife, I forgive my wife, I want her back! For better or for worse - this is what I signed on for. sigh


When I vowed for better or worse - I meant it!
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Biker, I haven't gone back and read your other thread(s). I only get a small amount of time in the mornings, so I do what I can where I can.

What I want to know is, ARE YOU WILLING TO USE MB NOW? Are you ready?

Are you the BS or WS? I think you are the BS, since you Plan A'd, and were gonna Plan B.(correct me if I am wrong)

Many BSs come here and think that their sitch is too different but those of us who have been here for a while know that MOST situations are pretty similar.

Last edited by Scotland; 01/27/12 07:59 AM.

BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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You've been dinking around here for 2 years, dude.


Waddayawant? Some sunshine in your tailpipe?


2... years...

Its time to face the facts; you BLEW IT man. You didn't make a single change or take a single action more than half-heartedly.

2... Years...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: Biker
Simply put: I love my wife, I forgive my wife, I want her back! For better or for worse - this is what I signed on for.


You signed on for even ABUSE? What if she kills your children? What if she shoots you? Did you sign on for that? Will you "forgive" and tolerate anything?

There is a huge difference between loving your wife and enabling her. Somehow I suspect you are doing the latter. There is nothing "loving" or Christian about enabling marriage wrecking, abusive behavior.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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If you are a BS this is the worst case of BS fog I have ever seen.

Are you essentially saying that she gets a free pass to do whatever she wants because you feel compelled to forgive her? Forgive someone still actively cheating, who hasnt expressed repentence?

Originally Posted By: Biker
When I married my wife, I took a vow. I vowed that I would stand by her for better or for worse,



Dr H distinguishes between 'worse' conditions that are no one's fault - illness, bereavement etc, and adultery. I suggest you do the same and do not accept poor, cruel or uncaring behaviour.

Originally Posted By: Biker
I have thought several times of running away (disappearing and never talking to her again and cutting all contact with mutual family and friends). I've considered other things that are deep and dark and don't even really want to think of anymore.


If you are thinking things 'deep and dark' you are proving Dr H's theory that a too-long Plan A or Plan C is detrimental to mental health. DOnt joke about stuff like that. Get help immediately.

Originally Posted By: Biker

But I took a vow. A vow that doesn't mean when things are broken, or times are tough - I can't just throw her away, and start over.



The A means she threw you away, not the reverse. And 'times' are not 'tough' - your 'wife' is 'wilfully cruel' - there is a difference.
Originally Posted By: Biker


I've done some of the things suggested here by people, but didn't feel comfortable with some of the things people said I had to do if I wanted to save my marriage. Would it have worked confused? I don't know - I didn't do it.


Well you tried it your way - how'd that work out for ya?

Einstein said the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Why not TRY MB if your way does not work?

But MB must be followed in its entireity - not missing a single step - it is like trying to make a cake without the flour if you do.


Originally Posted By: Biker


I don't fit into a nice little box that I can just open a book and pull out a solution.

Your mental distress proves Dr H's theory. It proves you do fit into the box. You arent any different to the rest of us.

Originally Posted By: Biker


For better or for worse - this is what I signed on for. sigh


Is it? Is this what you signed on for?

If you are getting what you wanted from the marriage, I dont see why you are here.

Of course you did not sign on for this!!!! Your vows explicitly forbade adultery.


Last edited by indiegirl; 01/27/12 08:51 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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If you want help you are going to have to man up and tell us the problem.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Biker, I went back and did a fast re-read of your thread, and have questions:
What, exactly, is going on in your marriage right now? Did you ever expose the affair? Are you still living in the marital home? How about the kids - are they with you?

I'm assuming you haven't filed for D, since you appear to believe that you are contractually obligated to be dragged behind a kicking mule because you 'signed up' for that. naughty

What has been happening?

I also noticed something consistently throughout your thread: you appear to "not have the time" to adequately attack your WW's affair and recover your marriage. What has changed? Do you still "not have time" to try to save your marriage?


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted By: Biker
I don't fit into a nice little box that I can just open a book and pull out a solution.


But how would you know that, since you are not a marriage counselor and have no experience saving marriages? You have no idea if there is an easy solution to your problems or not.

And neither do we, since you didn't tell us anything.

Dr. Harley has been doing this for well over four decades, and you can talk to him for free. Maybe he will tell you that there is no solution to your problem, or maybe he will know five or twenty marriages that are almost exactly like yours and know exactly what has worked for others facing your situation.

Give him a call:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
mbradio@marriagebuilders.com


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
There is a huge difference between loving your wife and enabling her. Somehow I suspect you are doing the latter. There is nothing "loving" or Christian about enabling marriage wrecking, abusive behavior.


Exactly. Your wife needs you to lead her out of the hole she has dug, before she ruins her life.

That will require change on your part, not just silent suffering.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
"The concept of unconditional love in marriage usually refers to a spouses lifelong commitment to care for the other spouse regardless of what the other spouse does. Im in favor of a lifelong commitment to care regardless of unfavorable circumstances (health problems, financial setbacks, and other factors outside a couples control that can negatively impact a marriage). But Im opposed to a lifelong commitment to care for a spouse when that spouse makes marriage-wrecking choices. It tends to give such people unrealistic expectations of entitlementthat they should be cared for, regardless of their willingness to care in return. Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love."
here



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: Biker
I don't fit into a nice little box that I can just open a book and pull out a solution.


But how would you know that, since you are not a marriage counselor and have no experience saving marriages? You have no idea if there is an easy solution to your problems or not.

And neither do we, since you didn't tell us anything.

Dr. Harley has been doing this for well over four decades, and you can talk to him for free. Maybe he will tell you that there is no solution to your problem, or maybe he will know five or twenty marriages that are almost exactly like yours and know exactly what has worked for others facing your situation.

Give him a call:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
mbradio@marriagebuilders.com


Ooh yes, do this.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: Biker

When I married my wife, I took a vow. I vowed that I would stand by her for better or for worse, (or words to that effect).


That vow is about the "worse" circumstances life throws at a married couple.
Illness. Difficult finances. Injuries. Disability. Accidents. Natural disasters. Broken plumbing. Boredom of routine. Chaos of childrearing. All of that "life" stuff you really don't want, but get anyway.

The "better" is sticking together when things are going splendidly in life.
A raise. A promotion. An inheritance. A new home. A new baby. Fame. Fortune. Acclaim. The "better" elements in life, success, has also been known to tear a couple apart.

We do not vow/agree to suffer interminable cruelty from our spouse.

When we marry, we are obligated to bring our BEST selves to the marriage. Not our worse selves.

Plan A demonstrates your best self.
Plan B protects your best self from un-ending cruelty & abuse.

A non-ending adultery is both cruel and abusive. NOT part of the "better or worse" vow.

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Originally Posted By: Biker

I've tried plan A


No, you did not.
Plan A requires self control.
Perseverance of purpose in spite of the emotional roller coaster......

You said:
Quote:

I want to trust again....I just don't know if I ever will.


What sort of goal is that?
When I read this, I see no effort input on your part.
You want "trust" to arrive at your doorstep, gift wrapped.

Guess what I learned? It does not work that way.
You don't have to listen to me, but know this. We are so, so happily married 16 years into our recovery. I trust my husband. He showed perseverance in demonstrating he was worthy of my trust. I required he behave in a trustworthy way for a long, long time before I began to trust his judgment.

I also want to tell you that I had to re-establish trust in MY judgment way before I could ever trust my husband's judgment.

You want this to come easily. Well, guess what, it requires effort. Yours. Hers.

The beauty of the MB plans is that they require effort.
The effort is the process.
The reward, or the end results are not available without that effort.

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A lot of valid points. You are right, a lot of things have been withheld because I don't know how to keep it anonymous. I won't go on some radio broadcast - and I'm not really looking for anyone to pat me on the back or anything.
I realize I haven't put my best effort into things - and that is my fault, no one elses. I have to take responsibility for the times that I got angry and did not do things that would harbor good feelings or attitudes to help my cause.


When I vowed for better or worse - I meant it!
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What are you looking for?

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Originally Posted By: Biker
I have to take responsibility for the times that I got angry and did not do things that would harbor good feelings or attitudes to help my cause.


I would rather see you taking responsibility for the woeful enabling of your wife to cheat on you by working plan doormat. if you really feel responsilbe for the A ( not true btw) why arent you killing it? Taking responsibility means taking action.

However hard life gets, grown ups are not allowed to just sit back and do nothing out of fear.

They must make a choice.

You wont call the radio show

You wont expose and ask for help

You wont give your wife the motivation she needs to change

You wont present her with conditions that insist she live a moral life if she wants to stay

You wont give yourself a happy life.

What you want to do , HERE, is to make excuses for your inaction.


Just say it - I am afraid of making her angry. I am even more afraid of losing her. So I will do nothing and endure it forever. I will let her become the sort of person my former wife would have despised.

Do you think you are the only one on here who is scared or hurt?


Originally Posted By: Biker
When I married my wife, I took a vow.


You vowed to care for her. Looking the other way and doing nothng while she shoots up on the A drug is NOT caring. You also vowed fidelity to each other. You did NOT vow to help her have immoral affairs, so stop saying so. It is enormously offensive to anyone who values the sanctity of marriage.



Originally Posted By: Biker
Did I give my best effort? No naughty


Whats worse, is that you know that your actions are wrong. YOur conscience smarts but it cannot win out over your fear.

How does it feel to knowingly do the wrong thing, like that?

I personally prefer to be able to say that I did ALL I could and that I did not help my husband do anything immoral.

As the bible says I 'will do him good all the days of my life and do him no evil'

If he repents, I will be here. I will respect my vows when he is shown the path back to his.


Last edited by indiegirl; 01/27/12 07:10 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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biker, let us know when you get serious about saving your marriage. We will be here to help. But we won't enable your marriage wrecking conflict avoidance.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Biker
You are right, a lot of things have been withheld because I don't know how to keep it anonymous.


That's a real copout. Your situation is almost certainly not that unique. And anyway, if you email Dr. Harley he and Joyce can keep certain details off of a broadcast if you want. When I was on the radio show, Dr. Harley certainly left out details of my situation, like the fact that I had six children.

Quote:
I won't go on some radio broadcast


Why not? Sounds like you look down on people that do, or look down on the broadcast? If you don't think Dr. Harley is qualified, why are you even here on this site?

At the very least, you can start listening to the show daily and see what kind of help is available and decide how valuable you think it is.

As it is now, you are telling us you won't lift a finger to save your marriage.

Just gonna tough it out in pain and abuse, because it's easier than actually doing anything that would require work, I guess. Wouldn't want to step out of your comfort zone?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
biker, let us know when you get serious about saving your marriage. We will be here to help. But we won't enable your marriage wrecking conflict avoidance.


Also, please don't try to turn this site into a place for people to chat about their problems forever without fixing them. There are people here who need real help, not a negative example of letting things stay bad.

There is nothing to be gained in life by getting "support" for staying in a non-changing situation. Living life requires you to change.

By the way, have you read the Basic Concepts here?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Biker
A lot of valid points. You are right, a lot of things have been withheld because I don't know how to keep it anonymous. I won't go on some radio broadcast - and I'm not really looking for anyone to pat me on the back or anything.
I realize I haven't put my best effort into things - and that is my fault, no one elses. I have to take responsibility for the times that I got angry and did not do things that would harbor good feelings or attitudes to help my cause.
Here's my story: my husband had an affair with a secretary at his office. Her husband exposed the affair. She quit the job. We recovered.

Can you guess my name from my story? I suspect not. What makes you feel so special, that you think your story is so identifiable? If you want feedback on your issue, you'll have to actually engage with us. Sorry, but that's how people relate.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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