Well.....my WW had a counseling session on Thursday las week, and the we both met with her on Friday.....and the news was discouraging to say the least.

It was mostly centered around she didn't love me anymore and how we need to not share our problems with family and friends. Also how we need to come together and tell the boys, 19 & 15.

We live in the Midwest, and this is a week after she took her trip to az to see OM, and lied to her parents, whom she was visiting, of her whereabouts. Told them she was at a conference she didn't attend, and they know she lied.

She informed me yesterday she was moving out next week, and is severely fogged in.

Plan b is now forced upon me. My questions are many. After being on her own away from kids, home....what are the chances she will come back? OM is out of state so won't have physical contact. What bills do I ask for her to pay.

I'm just lost right now and would like some thoughts and advice!

So I've read confusing threads and need some help.

So WW has informed me she's moving out next week. Does that not automatically put me into plan B mode with no contact, or do I still implement plan A while she's living in another dwelling??

She's says we're done, but was just with OP for a fling in AZ a couple weeks ago. What to do please????

Of course she doesn't want her sleazy adulterous behavior exposed any more. Would you?

Why do you need to come together and tell them this. Why...to let her put her little romantic and mind warped spin on it? Tell them NOW. There's a reason why exposure works, and you are failing miserably here. I must have missed that you had kids that age. This should've been done immediately. Do it now! At their age this is a powerful weapon in your arsenal. Are you listening??????

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A

Another example of bad counseling. All about telling WW what she wants to here so she keeps on coming back to pay for more sessions.

Expose far and wide.

No coming together. You tell your sons today that WW is having an affair with the OM. Tell them OM's name. They have a week to tell WW they are displeased with the OM. Most likely they tell WW they will not accept OM in their lives.

1.
Expose to the boys yourself and do not let her beat you to it. Do NOT tell her you are going to do it. Tel them the facts and that you are willing to repair your marriage if she stops seeing OM. Tell them you are trying to win her back and ask them to influence her to stop the affair.

2.
Do NOT go with her to marriage counseling. If you can, hold her to her promise to try for 4 months and find a MB counselor who applies the ideas of Dr. Harley.
Most marriage counselors only aim to improve communication between the spouses (read: they should be friendly and civil to eachother) and to let each spouse live up to its 'true self' (read: they should do what they feel like, which at the moment for your wife is a divorce).
This will only lead to an amicable divorce.

You and I know that once the fog lifts, your wife may want something entirely different. She has her pink glasses on and things life with OM will be bliss and rosebuds. At you, she looks with the bad glasses and she sees only the things that ever went wrong.

Plan A is already causing her to be somewhat confused. Because the OM only looks the better if you behave worse! When you brought her flowers, there was one thing less for her to say: Oh look what OM does, BS would never do that for me.

Anyway, this counselor obviously buys into her 'quest to happiness' and tries to keep you calm and accept the 'new reality' that the 'love is simply gone', while WW pursues her affair.

Your sons may be your best exposure targets. Life with OM will look a lot less appealing, if her fantasy of 'the ideal blended family' in which the boys accept and like OM like a second father will never materialize. She may not see it rightaway, but it WILL eat at her. This is something OM will never be able to do: love and take interest in her children as much as you, who knew and loved them from day one.

Plan A does not only include being nice, but also if possible spend time that brings in some love bank 'money'. If she is so absorbed in OM that she does not want to go anywhere with you, maybe you can try to remind her of good times here and there. (e.g. ice skating is on tv and you say: oh, do you remember that we always went iceskating with the boys? something like that.) Or give her a foot massage if she will let you.

Remember, the plan A that you do now, will lay the foundation for plan B if it will be nessecary. Marriages that make it, are often saved in plan A, because in plan A, you have the power. In plan B, you are not powerless, but you will have to take the chance that the WS not only sees in hindsight that you are the better catch, but also admits the mistake and comes back. Read the carrot and stick of plan A here

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2400725&#Post2400725

again and do the best you can in the time remaining. Also, keeping the house clean is a good thing, but really listening to a woman (if she will let you) and taking interest in her and loving gestures will make more love bank deposits. You can surely remember what made her fall in love with you back then. Work that routine again. Think about what you did when you were in love, compliment her. You will think of something.

If you make a unbelievably better husband out of yourself and practise this under these difficult circumstances, it might or might not bring your wife back, but it WILL make you a better person. Everyting you do or say makes you the man you want to become.

Stay calm and be solid like a rock. You will lead your family out of this storm. One way... or another.

May God bless you,

Happyheart

TLA,

Have to agree with The Road, what have you done to take OM out of commission? Your marriage cannot be save if your WW is still in contact with OM. You might forgive OM for what he did to your WW, but what OM did to your children is not forgivable.

God Bless
Gamma

I hear you all loud and clear, however I may be to the point that my life and children's lives would be better without her.

I'm sad she's leaving, yet relieved. If someone is not greeting you with love and respect, it is a gift if they walk away. If that person doesn't walk away, you will surely endure many years of suffering.

Her rose colored glasses are on. I've asked what I could have done different and she says nothing. I'm feeling better that there's someone out there that would appreciate me a lot more tan she does!

The spyware is an amazing tool. It has helped me realize that I deserve better and am sorry, but ceased plan a.

When you see that she searching for places to elope, how to please your man in bed, looking at wedding dresses and a whole lot of other things that are unmentionable......it's difficult to utter a word to her. I'm pleasant, calm and collected, but this one may be in the books for now.

She's moving out next week, and leaving me and 15yr old son. So, plan b will begin and would appreciate any and all suggestions. Maybe she will come out of the fog after shes out on her own, but it may not be in my best interest to take her back.

She's looking tired and worn down, so who knows, maybe she's gonna have a breakthrough soon, bot then again, may e not

Well, tla, I was wondering where you ran off to. Not sure what to tell you at this point since my time here on this board is kind of short and I'm probably (read:certainly) not the best poster to be giving you advice at this point.

Have you confronted the OM at all? And if not, why not? I may have already read about this but you have to understand there are a LOT of threads here And it's hard to keep all the stories straight.

However, I DO recall offering to help you with being a Plan B IM. That offer still stands. I've read up on it, and with the help of the board I can manage it for you.

So sorry for all this crap you're seeing. That keylogger is a blessing in disguise but also a gateway to emotional Hell.

Thanks Tiger and to you all. I was just informed by WW that she has hired an attorney and filed for divorce. I did all I could do, but evidently the pull of a new life without kids and family is appealling and the OM has a very strong pull on her.

She wanted to talk after she told me, but I said I had nothing left to say, that I gave it everything I had, and evidently was not enough, walked out and went for a long drive.

Trying to remain positive about my future, but if anyone has any words of wisdom......now would be a pretty good time to hear them.

Thanks to you all and God Bless you all

Trueheart's Letter

Thank you for taking the time and effort to read this letter. I am writing this in hopes that your BS has brought you here in order that you might understand you are not alone in your thoughts and feelings. It is intended to give you a measure of comfort and hope that you can feel safe as you come out the fog that has enveloped you so tightly over the past weeks, months, or years.

I do not know m any of you by name, nor do I know of all the details or circumstances surrounding your life, or your affair(s). What I do know is that we share two very important things in our lives and makes us somewhat connected as a WS. I am hoping that I can help you come back to the light, so that you can come back to the light that has, for so long, shielded you with that dense fog you may still be in.

The first thing that we share is the love of a person that totally, completely, and unconditionally stand by our side. Through thick and thin, for better or worse, in our darkest hours, we have someone that has always believed in us, and still does. They have put up with our lies, our anger, our accusations, and maybe in some cases verbal and/or physical abusiveness. They have watched us trash us the things they believed in more than anything in the world...our marriage, our vows, our trust and our love. In spite of it all, they see in us their hopes, their dreams, and their futures. They can't, nor do they want to, see themselves without us for the rest of their lives. They accept our imperfections and our infidelity as we have strayed from that which we know is wrong. They have continued to believe in us and want to help us right the ship and stay the course. They are willing to forgive us, grant us our mistakes, and come home to rebuild that life and make it better. They know they are not perfect, as well.

They know they have made mistakes. They need us to open up, talk to them and give them answers so that they can learn, heal, and help repair the damage. They will accept their responsibility in these things. Can you?

We, most of us, alsoe have children that look at us, and see only the love of a Mom or a Dad. They don't see us as imperfect, scared, or angry. They see us as a shelter, a safe haven where they can laugh, cry, hurt, be silly or serious, and tell us their fears or fantasies. We are their safety net when they fall. They look to us for answers in life, no matter how big or small the answers are. Our life changed, no matter much we didn't want it to when we helped create that life. We owe our children the best chance to learn from us. We owe them our unconditional, total, and complete love, so that they can start on the journey with as few bumps and bruises as possible. They look to you for truth in their lives. To deny them that chance, is a travesty.

You took an oath, in your heart and mind, to protect and defend and teach YOUR child, as soon as they were created. So, you see, you have people in your life that believe in you, love you, accept you, want you, need you, cherish you, and the list goes on and on.

I know for a fact, that many of you, when with the OP, badmouth your spouse. You tell the OP how they do all the right things, fill you up, make you feel alive, do all the things your spouse does not, or used to do. You tell this person they are everything you ever wanted. They arouse you, they make you happy...interesting how you told your spouse that at one time too. And, the truth is, if you were to search your heart, you are not letting them do that now. They want to, they beg you to let them try...you justify your A, by telling them "I just don't feel that for you anymore", "I don't know if I want to be married anymore", "I dont know what I want", and a myriad of other flimsy reasons and excuses to buy time to spend with the OP. You give justifications that are so superficial they can't hold water.

We even search our minds to think of everything that our spouse ever did, no matter how insignificant, how long ago it was, in order to make us feel better about cheating. We can find any reason to blame our spouse for US deciding and making a conscious choice to cheat and find a reason to say it is ok.

What we should be doing is finding every reason for our BS to forgive us. We should be finding every reason to stay together, to come home, to make it right, to be a family...loving and supportive, forgiving and trusting. And you know what? Those reasons are there...everyday...the smile, the laugh, the tears, the love....they are there each and everyday!! Just look!!!

The second thing we share is the fact that we are all weak!! I know full well the pain, anger, frustration, fear, embarrassment, passion, fun, laughter, love, fear, and all the rest of the wide range of emotions of having an A.

I know what is like to have that OP fill up your senses...so full and so fast you wonder how you ever made it without them. The sex is great, the passion is overwhelming, you can't wait to see them, touch them, hear them...all the while drifting further and further from your marriage...lost in the fog. NO matter how we justify it, that other person...is a cheater, as well. They know we are married and they choose to cheat with us. And in many cases, probably have before, and have told the other person they are with, all the same, exact things they tell us. "You are my soulmate" "you are the only one for me" etc etc. We have heard em all and said em all. We have been told they can make us happy "for the rest of our lives". WE have been so blinded by it all, that we give up family and friends we have had for years, in order for this OP to feel safe with us and convince them how we feel. We take all the energies that we don't use at home, and give them to someone "new". We spend money, time, and energy to build something with someone exciting, instead of spending that with someone that knows us and truly loves us.

You see, the truth is, that we, both members of the affair, are very good at one thing....telling each other exactly what we want to hear. We put together elaborate speeches, write poetry, find mushy cards, send the "perfect" gifts, say the right things...all for this other person. Both of us continue to hone our "cheating" skills to the point of perfection. What ever happened to doing that to your spouse, instead of leaving them at the side of the road with a flat tire? We have derailed their entire life and emotionally checked out...in order to make us feel better about the affair. That simply isn't right. We took years to build something. We may have taken several years to weaken the foundation of it. But in one simple night of lust, and that is what it is, lust, we tried to destroy it. If we truly "loved" this person, if we truly believed what we were doing is right, true, and good, there would be no indecision on our part. There would be no hesitancy at all.

The bottom line is that, you can trust the person you are cheating with less than you can trust yourself. It is a proven fact that only 25% of all affairs ever make it. Deep down in your heart, you still love your spouse, and you know it. You don't want to give up the excitement and passion you have found. The truth is that your marriage will never again go back to what it was. The blind faith in each other is gone....it is replaced with doubt and fear. The wonderful thing is that you now have a chance to "rediscover" your spouse, your marriage, and your family.

It is not as hard as you may think, but will take some dedication on your part. But the beauty of the whole thing is you will be stronger and more in love than you ever thought you could be. You create new memories, new routines, a new life. You re-commit, reinvest your time and energies in that which truly loves you.

The truth is most affairs end when the OP either gets what they thought they needed from you, and even more of them end when the OP finds another WS. Oddly enough, you weren't enough for them either. In the end you are left with no loving spouse, no children, no family, no friends.....and your OP that was so steadfastly dedicated to you is off romping with "the love of their life".

I know from whence I speak, my friends. I know of the pain, the sorrow, the hurt, the look in my childrens eyes when I left the house. I hear the sounds of my W crying, begging, pleading, and hurting. I now see what a fool I was.

I now spend everyday, more happy than I ever thought I could be. If the world were to end tomorrow, she would know I loved her as no other. No, she won't ever forget about the A, and along the way, there will be things that will trigger her mind, but, she has forgiven. You need to talk to your spouse to help them. YOU are the only one that can help them. They need you, much more now than ever before. You have to swallow that pride of yours, for them to heal. You have to open your life up to them, and hide nothing. You have to make it about them. The affair was making it about you, so now you owe it to them, no matter how embarrassed you are, no matter how much you don't wnat to talk about it, to make it about them. Their piece of mind, their feelings are all that matter.

They know, from being here, what they need to do in order to help meet your needs. It is now up to you, to learn what you need to do in order to meet theirs. And make no mistake about it, it will be hard work, but it is oh so worth it!! This person you married, is willing to work with you in order to show you the love you deserve!!

Are you willing to work to show them how much you truly love them??

By being here, at xxxxxxxxxxxxx, they have shown that they are willing to adopt the principles that it takes to put their marriage back together. They have pledged their love, and even their support, to your recovery, as well as theirs. They have accepted the crumbs you have offered them, while knowing full well you were at the buffet with the other person in your life.

You have one of the strongest, most committed, most wonderful, loving, and caring people in the world on your side. Don't expect them not be angry from time to time. Don't expect them to be perfect, let you off the hook, and not talk about it with you. They need and want to understand you and all the things surrounding what happened. It is part of the healing process.

What you can expect is love, honesty, and the rebuilding of your marriage.

They know what it takes to make things work now. They also know that they, as well as you, have to be stronger than ever before in their life, if this is going to work. That is why they are still here...they understand.

They even know, that you may backslide in the beginning, but are willing to deal with that, in order to preserve and protect that which they believe in ......YOU. I implore you, WS, burn off the fog. See the sand that is your foundation for the affair. There is no solid basis for this relationship..it is all smoke and mirrors that reflects this "love" you have found. Run, do not walk, back home and give your marriage all the energy, gifts, poems, cards, and love that you have given to the affair. The results are remarkable. But you have to be willing to be honest with yourself, first of all. You have to admit there is a problem, and you have to be willing to fix it, with your spouse, a counselor, whatever or whoever it takes to fix it. You have to be willing to want to be there in mind, body, and spirit. You will find a love more wonderful than anything you knew before.

I hope this helps, in some way, to show you what life can be after an affair. I know that I am blessed with the most wonderful person. I was given the opportunity to feel what life was like without her, and it was not what I wanted. I found the answers I sought...I found them both here, and in her arms. I can only hope, that in some small way, you find the same thing, and that I helped the fog to lift. If you ever wish to talk to someone who understands what we WS go through, then feel free to write *edit* There is a path back home. You need only choose it! Keep the faith!

*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*

Trueheart

And, yes, tla..this is from a past MBer. Print it off and let her read it. May not help, but sure won't hurt

On second thought, don't give this to her yet. It'll go in one ear and right out the other. That was stupid suggestion.

Tiger I like it, but if and when should I let her read this?

I wouldn't even bother. This is a letter that is more suited for lurking waywards that are truly trying to change their ways; for trying to find some motivation to get out of their affairs and actually work on their marriages. I'm afraid your sitch doesn't fall under that category, and I'm truly sorry about that.

Like I said, it was a very stupid suggestion, and I would just disregard it completely. This is one example why it's not good for me to stay up past midnight. Dumb advice.