I don't like the idea of calling an OP a "boyfriend." And telling her that sometimes people fall out of love is true, but that's not what happened with your WW. She committed adultery and that caused her to want to leave you and your daughter. I think you should have been more upfront with your DD. You can still be.

As far as the "got caught" part, as Pep said, it is a starting off point, but you could use it, after you explained that Mommy lied about it, and then Daddy caught her(it helps showing that LYING is also wrong).

Shoot, Pep, except for the part that struck me (personally) wrong, I wouldn't want to change anything. No way would my words be as good as those...

I think word-smithing about ways to approach the kids is an excellent exercise and benefits everyone.

Hack away.
Chime in.
Critique is good.

Thanks, everyone.

We spoke with Steve Harley today. He gave my wife an assignment which she immediately completed. She also immediately filled out two questionnaires that we were asked to before the session.

He advised me to not continue with the divorce. Friday we will have the next session, and my wife planned a �date night.� for us.

Warning, TMI this paragraph. My wife and I had sex the other night. It was a bit uncomfortable for me, and I couldn�t finish. No so much images, but thoughts�did she do this with him, that with him, etc? I�m probably not ready for that yet.

As for the failed poly question, what didn�t make sense is that she came clean with much more hurtful information, and volunteered additional info that I would have had no way of knowing, as well as immediately did everything that I asked.

I gave some thought to this, and it occurred to me that the poly examiner did reword the contact question from what I originally wrote to something more broad. Just before the exam, we redefined contact as �indirect� as well, such as inquiring through a friend, and some other ways of �contact� that I don�t remember precisely.

That said, the date of last contact given to my by my wife was Thurs. 26. She said on this day, she bought a pay-as-you-go phone and told OM to stick to a story that they never met (the OM is still sticking to this story, according to his wife).

On Friday 27, my wife revealed to me that they had indeed met in NY and had sex. On Saturday 28, I had my wife access the OM�s wife�s facebook page so I could send the OM�s wife a message to call me. On the wife�s fb page is a big picture of the OM. Then when my wife spoke to the OM�s wife, they talked about the OM. So, this very well may have been the source of the failed question�indirect contact. I may never know for sure, but my gut tells me there was no contact of the kind I was referring to with the original poly question.

I read her posts, and I agree she comes across as defensive and foggy. In person, however, she is completely different�I have no complaints at all about her behavior to me. The discrepancy doesn�t surprise me that much. She has always been emotionally sensitive, and never took criticism well, even constructive. Mr. Harley recommended to me that she stop posting if she is not feeling good about it (NOTE: This advice applies to OUR SITUATION ONLY and not for all WWs!). Perhaps when we are further along she can resume. I will leave it up to her.

On her own accord, my wife began writing a letter to my parents, but I am not so enthusiastic about letting them know. Mr. Harley recommended that we reveal to those who could help us. I believe my parents could do that, so I guess it is the right thing to do. I am not sure about the kids yet. I�ll ask him about that for the session on Friday.


Sorry for the length. I don�t mean to �blog� here, but I have no one else to talk to yet and getting this out really helps.

Thank you for caring and listening.

I just noticed the small pile of things that my wife left me from a few days ago when I asked her to leave. It�s still sitting on the desk: our two credit cards, bank/debit card, insurance cards for the kids.. even her gift cards (unused from Christmas), and her Costco card. She still didn�t pick them up, and never asked about them. I never asked for nor wanted her to do that.

It�s those kind of actions that just disarm my anger.

Bricks, does this mean you are going to give this a whirl?

How did you like Steve Harley? He is really very good, isn't he?

Bricks, it would appear to me that you have one extraordinarily remorseful wife on your hands. WW's don't take these kinds of measures (let alone unprovoked) unless they are feeling some intense pain themselves for their awful choices and decisions. These actions do merit some serious thought from you on how to proceed. There are a LOT of BHs on this site (myself included) who would've KILLED to get what you are now being handed willingly, and with no concern for what happens to her.

This is a powerful message buddy. Please think on this for a while.

A long while

Bricks, it may be that she failed that question because of the way it was worded, you are still going to find out if it wasn't though through snooping, right?

Sounds like things are going in the right direction for your chance at marital recovery. Keep it up. You're doing great.

Bricks, I've got to tell you - I was waiting to see if your WW acutally submitted to a poly to see if she was really remorseful. I think she is. I believe that the two of you can rebuild your marriage. I believe that this is a woman who is worthy of your consideration.

Don't misunderstand me - she has been foggy and the two of you will need to do a lot of work. But I am so encouraged for both of you!

That's because she was owning her [censored]. And I commend her for that. I think you and her are coming from a great position with the Harley's. The hardest part is for the offending spouse to show complete contrition. It seems that your wife is committed to it.

Good for you bricks. I agree with the other posters - it sure looks like Mrs. Bricks wants to rebuild your marriage. You have a willing partner, something a lot of us never had.
Continue posting here and working with SH. You have a great chance of surviving the affair and living a complete life with your family.

Melody�Yes, I�m all in now. You are right, Steve Harley is very good. No b.s., cuts to the chase on what has to be done. I also like that he carefully explains the purpose of what he asks us to do.

Tiger�Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate what you are saying. It�s hard not to want to try with my wife�s current actions.

Scotland�Thanks for keeping me vigilant. This morning my wife showed me how to log into the on-line phone co. account to check activity. I�m not sure what I could do to detect secret phones, however.

Maritalbliss, Ouch, and Linus�Thanks very much! I greatly appreciate you words of encouragement.

I think your WW is doing all she should be doing. However you should not let your guard down. It is normal to verify to trust. With time the need to verify will grow less.

You may not physically find a secret cell. And from what you have posted I don't think there is one.

Though hidding a digital VAR in WW car and on in the house should reveal the use of any secret phones by WW.

Hi everyone,

My wife asked me to post again to give an update. I haven�t posted in a while because when I come here, I feel bad as I see so many people in bad situations similar or even worse than my own. In any case, we have been counseling with Steve Harley and things are improving.

Last week we got into a fight because of something I did. I hired a female employee about 6 months ago who I thought best for the job. I didn�t tell my wife because I knew she would be upset and I didn�t want to deal with it. Last week I finally began to feel guilty about the continued deception and told her. Anyway, I believe that I can transfer this person to another supervisor and I think this will resolve the issue to her satisfaction. I don�t completely like this solution, and I was upset about it as it negatively impacts my work. It seems unfair to me since she had the affair and I haven�t acted inappropriately around another female. It�s odd because I was never particularly jealous or worried about her behavior, even now, surprisingly enough. I guess people are just different. However, I do agree that it is ultimately my fault as I deceived her about it to begin with.

I am glad that she comes here for support, and I really appreciate the great advice that she receives.

Happy Easter,

Bricks

Hey, Bricks! Good to hear from you!

We heard about the female assistant. As you probably know, that went over like a...well, like a brick.

The fact that your wife had an affair doesn't give you a free pass to let your own boundaries go. It's not a quid pro quo situation. You placed yourself in a precarious situation that could endanger your marriage.

Let's rephrase your statement to help explain my point:
See what I mean? Your boundaries protect YOU as well as your marriage.

I am concerned that you would spend a period of time with this woman and not answer your cell phone when your wife calls.

Tell me what the two of you have been doing to recover your marriage. How much UA time are you spending together each week? How is the needs-meeting going?

Thanks, Maritalbliss.

I agree with you completely. I don't think my boundaries have weakened since the affair; in fact I think they may be stronger.


I agree that not telling my wife about this person and discussing it with her before the hire was a potential threat. I also agree that traveling alone with this person for more than an hour was not a good decision.

I do not agree that refusing to hire females ever again, which my wife insists on, is a reasonable nor ethical request. However, I have agreed to abide by this. I am concerned for the future, as this may lead to a loss of productivity as well as could get me into trouble. We may have to discus this again if this situation arises in the future.


The day that my wife was upset about, she said that she called me when I was driving to a meeting. I believe her, but I did not hear it. I don�t remember if she said she called me while I was returning; if so, I did not hear it then either. My phone is always on vibrate as I am frequently in meetings and presentations and I cannot have the phone ring during these times. Sometimes I cannot feel/hear it. She called once or twice during my meeting; and I did hear/feel the phone then but I did not answer as the time was not appropriate. This frequently happens and my wife knows this. Usually I call her back as soon as I can, but sometimes I forget to. I should improve that. In any case, I agreed with her that I won�t travel alone with a female again; that sounds reasonable to me.

I hope that does not come across as argumentative or defensive, I am not intending to be.



Steve Harley gave us a number of basic MB exercises which we are following. After the above incident, Steve asked me to write a weakness protection plan and discus it with my wife.

We are not spending enough UA time together. We schedule more than 15 hrs, but most of this time is not very good. My wife gets home late from work, around 8:00, and often works on weekends, so we only have an hour or two each night to spend together when we are both tired. She�s also taking classes, working on her MS degree. Note I am not blaming her, this was a joint decision and I highly encouraged her to do this. Last week we spent almost no time together, as we were both mad at each other over the above incident. Childish, but nevertheless how we both behaved.

She is doing a good job meeting my EN; I don�t think I am doing as good. I�m working on improving.

Thanks for your feedback, I do appreciate it.

Did you make or receive any other calls during the same period of time?

All of your efforts will be in vain if you can't make this happen. If the police came to your door tonight and told you that you would go to prison for life if you didn't get your UA solidly in for the next week, would you allow them to shackle you and lead you off to the hoosegow?? Hell, NO! You'd be sitting down with Mrs. Bricks and writing down your UA time for the coming week.

So why aren't you doing it NOW? Do you have to be threatened to have UA time? Do you not understand how important it is?

I spoke to a co-worker from a different institution who asked me directions to the meeting.


I know you are right, I agree completely that we need to get this worked out for next week as soon as we can. However, my wife is out with her study group (all female) right now working on their group paper. I assume we can get this done tomorrow evening when we get back from work.

Actually, I�m glad I posted again. I needed a kick in the pants to get going.

Thanks, Maritalbliss (seriously, not sarcastically)!