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Doh�

DIVORCE AND CHILDREN: NEW STUDY CONFIRMS IRREPARABLE HARM

A PDF of the original article may be downloaded for free here: http://marri.us/get.cfm?i=RS12A01

IMO, adultery by a parent (especially the mother) is pretty much as damaging to the COM even if divorce is avoided. Personal experience.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

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And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Originally Posted by Aphelion
IMO, adultery by a parent (especially the mother) is pretty much as damaging to the COM even if divorce is avoided. Personal experience.

I totally agree ... I struggle with this daily. My parents are divorced and my mother monsterized my father my entire childhood and used me agasint him to the point that I feared him and he never did anything to deserve the fear I had for him (looking back of course now i see this) .. I also had abandonment issues becasue my mother would introduce me to every one of her new boyfriends and I would grow attached and then out of no where they would leave my mom .. I grew up watching my mom go through men like crazy. She had 2 more kids with 2 other men of whom she never married (shes been married 3 times and is seperated from her last marriage but refuses to pay for the divorce, but has been with like 3 other guys since she seperated) From that I realized i was just a welfare check and a child support payment to her. To this day .. (even just last week) my mom trys to guilt me with the "i did the best i could" with all sorts of excuses as to why she did the things she did ..

I struggle daily with gods word on "honour your mother and father" and feel my mother doesnt deserve any honour as she continues to lie to herself about the choices she made .. I told her i do not accept the choices she made but i forgive her as jesus wants us to forgive and she craps on me about my beliefs and claims I am judging her .. and refuses my forgiveness but wants acceptance.

I wish my parents had never divorced .. but BOTH were unfaithful to eachother and neither one accepts responsibilty for it NOR appologizes for their immature behaviours that resulted in the divorce. My dad makes a great effort now to be in his grandkids lives but my mother moved 8 hours away and then guilts me for not coming to visit. I feel sorry for my mom .. and now have a much better relationship with my dad and my mom dislikes me for it because she told me all my life that my dad was going to be the lonely one... its turning out to be her and she continues to guilt me for it to this day which is driving us even farther apart.

How does one follow gods word and honor your father and mother when your mother doesn't even own up to what she and has to lie to herself so much she believes her own lies? I feel so sorry for her ... especially now that I know MB and can see plain as day where their marriage fell apart and neither one owns up to it and they both blame the other. When I point out what I know she denies it .. and then in the same breath says she did those things to protect me!? I feel so sorry for her and guilty and am ashamed of my mother for the way things have turned out and every time we speak it always comes back to the hurt she has and the hurt I have and she just continues to blame everything else except herself then throws my religious views at me saying things like "what god would want your mother feeling hurt like this that you would say these things to open up my wounds and hurt me with what you feel i should not have done" ..it seems like shes been living in the fog all her life and just doesn't "get it"

Sorry for the rant and mild thread jack/vent .. but this struck a chord with me. The PDF file in mention on the OP's post was a good read .. but struck me hard.

MNG

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I don't know the answer to those questions, MNG. I know that I gave up trying to persuade my wayward mother of anything, decades ago. I also gave up trying to have any sort of relationship with her.

Now through Marriage Builders, I can understand my wayward mother, and her wayward mother, much better than I could years ago. But I still don't see a way forward, and I'm also aware that my own mother's attempt to keep her wayward mother as an influence in her life was dangerous for her own character and personal development. I don't want to risk that in my life, and I don't want to risk that in my children's lives, so we just don't see her. It's not pleasant to be around her, and nothing good comes of it.

My mother is dead. My wayward mother is an alien, and I don't know her. I know nothing about what is going on in her life, and I rarely think of her. Doing so enables me to move forward in my own life and not be perpetually triggered by bad memories.

Just rambling here, not offering suggestions.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
My dad makes a great effort now to be in his grandkids lives but my mother moved 8 hours away and then guilts me for not coming to visit.

My dad was faithful and a good man, but since I became married he also became similarly skilled in trying to motivate me to do what he wants through guilt.

I don't put up with that crap any more. That's the same kind of behavior he always complained about from his mother-in-law (my lunatic wayward grandmother), who would bawl and cry to get her way all the time.

I don't think honoring my parents requires me to subject myself to emotional manipulation.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Thanks Markos ... I appreciate the rambles ...

I feel constantly guilt ridden that I do not want to know my mother anymore. Shes on FB and every time i post something on facebook about MB she sends me a message on how much that hurts her for me to post such things and feels judged like I posted it on purpose to hurt her..... Both my parents were wayward but my dad makes such a great effort to be in our lives that I actually have a love bank for him.

MNG

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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
I feel constantly guilt ridden that I do not want to know my mother anymore.

My friend, your mother controls how you feel about her. She should feel guilty about this, not you.

Don't try to prevent her from facing the consequences of her behavior.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Before I knew MB She was under the impression I was ok with everything ... and i kinda was .. she even reminds me of such and how i used to be ok with it. After i helped deal with my wifes mothers affair and blew that out of the water, my resentment for my mother grew ALOT. It triggered alot of bad memories in me and I felt it was time she knew how i really felt about ALL that went down through my time i lived with her (moved out with my wife at 17) I sat down and wrote a 5 page letter of all the things i didnt like and how i really felt about it .. she HATED it .. she blasted me and blamed me and reminded me how i supported her emotionally through all those times and how i should have said something back then ... and how dare I turn on her now after allll these years when she did those things to protect me. GAHH!!!!!!! what a bunch of BS! I wish i had of had the guts earlier in life to really tell her how i felt instead of bringing it up years and years later when my wifes mothers affair triggers it all to be nice and fresh again.

Sorry im ranting again ... this is a hard topic.

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
I feel constantly guilt ridden that I do not want to know my mother anymore.

My friend, your mother controls how you feel about her. She should feel guilty about this, not you.

Don't try to prevent her from facing the consequences of her behavior.

Thats a tough one ... she raised me until i moved out with my wife at the age of 17 (my wife was 16 at the time i moved out and into our first apartment together) I had to get out of that house ... I was treated like the dad of the house as my 2 younger brothers were 10 and 11 years younger than I. I felt guilty for abandoning them too .. almost like I should have taken them out of that house with me when i moved out ... but i knew it was not my place .. i was just confused.

OK there I go rambling again ... this almost should have been on my thread lol ... as I am dealing with the aftermath of a fight from my mom last week over these issues.

Gah .. sorry for the rants. i know i shouldnt feel guilty .. but for some reason i still do. Maybe i should cut her out of my life now that she knows how i really feel.

*shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Aphelion
Doh�

DIVORCE AND CHILDREN: NEW STUDY CONFIRMS IRREPARABLE HARM

A PDF of the original article may be downloaded for free here: http://marri.us/get.cfm?i=RS12A01

IMO, adultery by a parent (especially the mother) is pretty much as damaging to the COM even if divorce is avoided. Personal experience.

A, I am letting you know I linked to this thread *** here ***

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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
[
How does one follow gods word and honor your father and mother when your mother doesn't even own up to what she and has to lie to herself so much she believes her own lies? I feel so sorry for her ... especially now that I know MB and can see plain as day where their marriage fell apart and neither one owns up to it and they both blame the other. When I point out what I know she denies it ..


My father [passed on 2006] was just as corrupt as your mother. He lifestyle and his views made me sick. I disassociated myself from him almost entirely the last 25 years of his life. The best way I found of dealing with him was to follow the Bible: I did not forgive him [he never asked for forgiveness and never repented so there was nothing to forgive him FOR] and I disassociated myself from him. The Bible says have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, so that is what I did. I avoided him as much as possible.

But at the end of his life when he became terminally ill and didn't have 2 cents to rub together, I made sure he was well cared for and had a place to live. [my sister paid his rent on an annual basis and I paid for everything else] He wouldn't go into nursing home, so I hired nurses to take care of him 24/7. I flew out there often to stay on top of things and keep him under control. [he would try and run the nurses off with his gun and when that didn't work light up a pot cigarette while on oxygen] I had his house cleaned every day and his meals cooked for him and when I was there, I treated him with kindness and respect. That is how I "honored" my dishonorable father.

It was my responsibility as his child to take care of him, which I did, but that didn't mean I had to allow his darkness to poison my life.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks ML .. that must have been soo hard! I am dreading the days I have to look after my parents ... and step parents. My exterior family (pretty much everyone not living in my household that is) is such a wreck ... so much adultery and so broken .. they look puzzled at me when i talk MB to them .. like its taboo to them almost or they give me the "that works for you but not everyone" speech.

I tell my DD and DS (mostly DD since she understands a lot more than DS)that our family now starts here with truth and honesty ... and that we are going to fix our family from this generation forward and not repeat what our family has done in the past.

They have asked me several times why our family is so broken up .. why no one can get along in one place and why we have so many grandparents and step grandparents etc. Its tough and I get embarrassed when I have to talk about my family like that ... my wifes family is very similar but once we had kids most of them disappeared like they wanted nothing to do with us or our kids.

Seems the abnormal is the new norm for society .. or maybe its just my perspective?

*shrugs*

MNG

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MNG, have you read Defending Traditional Marriage? I shied away from this one for quite awhile, but it turned out to be pretty interesting, particularly for a child of divorce, in my opinion.

It might not be what you think.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Hmm .. i may look into that when i do my next book purchase ..

I currently own: HNHN, HNHNFP, fall in love stay in love, buyers renters and freeloaders, lovebusters, draw close.

My next book purchase was going to be that one about helping others since it seems everyone comes to me for marital help now (some of my friends anyhow not my family).. i will probably get both then if you think it would be a good read.

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Originally Posted by markos
but it turned out to be pretty interesting, particularly for a child of divorce, in my opinion.

I so agree with this. It has a very different view of marriage from what I was taught by my parents.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Great article. The pain of the A was HORRIBLE, but the pain of OC was a gazillion times worse. I wanted a baby with POSex SO BAD but was never able to conceive even despite reproductive therapy. Docs could never really explain why it wasn't "happening"....it just "didn't".....

Knowing what I know now, do I think this is a coinkidink? NO! I KNOW it was divine intervention.....God protecting me from what he already knew POSex was going to do.

I am now THANKFUL we didn't have any COM. I could NEVER deal with MY COM being around OW. Nuh uh...would never happen. I'd move to China first. I'm not kidding....

Now, OW has 2 COM with her exH. So MY POSex RUINED her marriage, caused her to get D, then moved OW/her COM/OC in with him before our D was even final. (This move also put the COM's 1600 miles away from their bio dad...OW has custody and he didn't put a "no move out of state" clause in the D.) And to my knowledge, he has not married her yet. I honestly don't think he will....it's all about OC.

Makes me sad for OW's precious COM's. They are completely innocent, but yet will be damaged by their parents D, their sorry mama cheating with a MM, then the drama of shacking up with their mama's AP.........

Sheesh.

Last edited by Migs; 02/15/12 09:36 PM.

Me: BS age 35
POS-eX-the SORRIEST, CRUELEST, LOWLY WAYWARD SCUMBAG out there
Married 14.5 years, together almost 16
DDay: 7-5-09
OC born: 7-23-09
no COM: tried 6 years frown
D filed 5/05/2011
D final 11/10/11
I was gaslighted for 2 years.

"You were not built for a safe story. Take risks and feel what it is like to actually be brave. It's worth it." Carlos Whittaker
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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Hmm .. i may look into that when i do my next book purchase ..

I currently own: HNHN, HNHNFP, fall in love stay in love, buyers renters and freeloaders, lovebusters, draw close.

My next book purchase was going to be that one about helping others since it seems everyone comes to me for marital help now (some of my friends anyhow not my family).. i will probably get both then if you think it would be a good read.

I have not read it straight through, but surveyed it and read enough excerpts to get the gist. It's very interesting for someone who wants to reverse what happened in his own childhood and work to change culture.

It's also dirt cheap on Amazon. I think we got it for only a couple bucks!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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MNG, here's an interview with Dr. Harley I also find interesting.

Sorry, I hope I'm not threadjacking too badly.

This used to be up on familychristian.com, but apparently they have taken it down. Here is an archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080704061435/http://www.familychristian.com/books/harley.asp

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
What I'm struggling with now is third generation children of divorced parents.

FamilyChristian.com: What difficulties have you encountered in dealing with children of divorce who are now contemplating divorce themselves?

Bill: These couples that I'm dealing with have grown up with a mindset that "I can survive as an individual." There is, to some extent, an emotional barrier that is hard to break down. It has to break down in a great marriage. In a great marriage, you have to be vulnerable. Well, kids that come from divorced families are very fighting-oriented. They argue instead of negotiate. They have their position and [say,] "I am right and you're wrong and I'm not going to try to see things your way because your way is really a stupid way to see things." If they want to understand each other, they've got to negotiate, [but it will be] years before they're going to be able to do that effectively. So I have to start with doing things that are fairly superficial. Instead of negotiating, I'm going to tell you, "You can't make a demand, you can't show disrespect and you've got to meet each other's emotional needs." That straightens out the marriage in a superficial way. So now they're in love with each other again and they're getting along. Then I say, "Okay, now I've got to tell you how to create a lifestyle where you're going to integrate each other into your lives." That turns out to be, for many couples, the tail end of the program. A lot of times we're dealing with children of divorced parents, where the idea of following the policy of joint agreement is about the stupidest idea in the world. [They say,] "For me to make all my decisions, to check my decisions with my spouse, you've got to be crazy to do something like that."


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Markos that article is wonderful.

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I find the art of negotiating wonderful today. I negotiate in everything I do to get practice.

Dr. Harley makes perfect sense to me, and I am finding myself in "AWE" by how smart he is on this topic.

I look for threads that I have the opportunity to work with someone who needs to negotiate. Mostly I find them in MB101.

Negotiating is a skill, and besides instilling GOD into my children, I want my children to learn the art of negotiating. If I accomplish nothing else in my life, I just pray I can accomplish teaching my children GOD and negotiating.

Tough~

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That was a good article. I fear for my kids that this could be some of the outcomes with them. I have tried very hard to step up and be there for my kids and try to help keep things the article states from happening. Things like school, and church, the things i can have a little control on. The fate of there mom and that relationship i feel is out of my hands. She is burning the bridge everyday and it sounds like it is going to end up like all the other relationships i have read about on here.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
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