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kids that come from divorced families are very fighting-oriented. They argue instead of negotiate.

*lightbulb moment* for me shocked

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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
I find the art of negotiating wonderful today. I negotiate in everything I do to get practice.

Dr. Harley makes perfect sense to me, and I am finding myself in "AWE" by how smart he is on this topic.

I look for threads that I have the opportunity to work with someone who needs to negotiate. Mostly I find them in MB101.

Negotiating is a skill, and besides instilling GOD into my children, I want my children to learn the art of negotiating. If I accomplish nothing else in my life, I just pray I can accomplish teaching my children GOD and negotiating.

Tough~

I'd love to hear more about this.
Pretty please. kiss

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Originally Posted by lostman101
That was a good article. I fear for my kids that this could be some of the outcomes with them. I have tried very hard to step up and be there for my kids and try to help keep things the article states from happening. Things like school, and church, the things i can have a little control on. The fate of there mom and that relationship i feel is out of my hands. She is burning the bridge everyday and it sounds like it is going to end up like all the other relationships i have read about on here.

Sorry lostman .. I hope i didnt paint the divorced parents picture too badly... I was fuming and stewing after i read the article. It was a good article but it sure triggered me.

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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Sorry lostman .. I hope i didnt paint the divorced parents picture too badly... I was fuming and stewing after i read the article. It was a good article but it sure triggered me.

You didnt alarm me to anything i dont already worry about. I have to say that since WxW has left, some things at home have gotten better actually. And my 2 oldest boys that are in school are straight A's and good behavior at school. I have had several people(including my kids) tell me that things seem better off with their mom gone. But at the same time they still want her to come home. I cannot really figure out why.. I think its the idea of mom, rather than the mom they lost at the moment. I know they are still confused and angry, but we talk often about this. I had an old babysitter come by last night to see the kids and they were stuck on her like glue. They really are longing for a mom figure at home.


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Originally Posted by lostman101
That was a good article. I fear for my kids that this could be some of the outcomes with them. I have tried very hard to step up and be there for my kids and try to help keep things the article states from happening. Things like school, and church, the things i can have a little control on. The fate of there mom and that relationship i feel is out of my hands. She is burning the bridge everyday and it sounds like it is going to end up like all the other relationships i have read about on here.

Don't fear Lost - teach them the Art of Negotiation.

I do this with my children daily. Granted there are some decisions I make if it concerns their safety, well-being, or discipline.

Here are some of the things I do.

When my children fight with each other ... I stop them and ask how we can find a solution to the cause of their fight. Most of the time it is with sharing. I try to encourage them to negotiate with their sibling on time. For example, would you be okay if I played with this toy for 20 minutes and then gave it to you? If the other sibling says, "No I want it NOW", then I step in and say, "You cannot have it now, can you have patience and get the toy in say 15 minutes?" Then the other sibling says, "But mom I said 20 minutes", and I look at the two of them and say, "D8 would it be okay if you gave the toy to S6 in 15 minutes, and then you can do something else you enjoy?" Then I say to S6, "Can you do something else you enjoy for 15 minutes until you are able to get the toy?"

It is a way for me to encourage them to find a solution that makes both of them happy.

We also do this with vegetables and fruit. "Children would you be happy with these kind of apples?" No mommy we like the red ones. "Well mommy doesn't like the really red ones, so can we try these apples that are mostly red with some green?" "Yes mommy, those apples are good."

It is just my way of trying to teach them to find solutions that make them and I both happy. I hope it sinks in ...

Tough~

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Originally Posted by lostman101
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Sorry lostman .. I hope i didnt paint the divorced parents picture too badly... I was fuming and stewing after i read the article. It was a good article but it sure triggered me.

You didnt alarm me to anything i dont already worry about. I have to say that since WxW has left, some things at home have gotten better actually. And my 2 oldest boys that are in school are straight A's and good behavior at school. I have had several people(including my kids) tell me that things seem better off with their mom gone. But at the same time they still want her to come home. I cannot really figure out why.. I think its the idea of mom, rather than the mom they lost at the moment. I know they are still confused and angry, but we talk often about this. I had an old babysitter come by last night to see the kids and they were stuck on her like glue. They really are longing for a mom figure at home.

They will long for that forever Lost, and their current emotional needs are being shaped by her absence. I encourage you to teach them about why their emotional needs are a certain way, so when they are men they can choose a wife who can meet those needs well.

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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
They will long for that forever Lost, and their current emotional needs are being shaped by her absence. I encourage you to teach them about why their emotional needs are a certain way, so when they are men they can choose a wife who can meet those needs well.

I am not sure what you mean by this because emotional needs are only relevant within the context of a romantic relationship. These kids are not in a romantic relationship. So what do you mean that their emotional needs are being shaped by her absence? How?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
Don't fear Lost - teach them the Art of Negotiation.

This is something i must get a handle on thats for sure. Everything at home is generally good shape with the boys except sharing. I need to start with this approach and see what i can accomplish--Thanks for your input.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I am not sure what you mean by this because emotional needs are only relevant within the context of a romantic relationship. These kids are not in a romantic relationship. So what do you mean that their emotional needs are being shaped by her absence? How?

How they are raised will determine what they look for in a romantic relationship. Each person's emotional needs are shaped by their environment and how they were raised.

Being raised without a mother will influence what the boys will look for in a woman. They may have a high need for FC because they don't want to repeat the adultery. Their admiration need may be super high because they were neglected in that department as a child. If your parents always kept a neat and tidy home, then you may have a high emotional need for DS in a romantic relationship.

It is wise to help a child understand their emotional needs, and encourage them to find a romantic partner who meets them. As the mom I will be able to see what they look for in a mate as they grow and get boyfriends/girlfriends. As the mom I will be able to see certain emotions that are important to them because I raised them.

It is my job to teach them how to get those needs met by their partner. Since I am a single mom, they will not be seeing how their father and I meet each others emotional needs.


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But FC and DS do not create romantic love. They are not intimate emotional needs. People don't fall in love over FC and DS, because those needs are obviously not met while dating. You don't even have to be together to meet those needs. Romantic love is created by meeting the intimate emotional needs. Intimate emotional needs are reactions that create romantic feelings. Your children do not have romantic relationships right now so those ENs aren't being shaped.

For example, I came from a very broken home, and my top intimate emotional needs are affection and conversation. That is no different than most, even though I come from a very broken home.

So while I don't agree that emotional needs are being shaped, I do agree that your children can learn so much from this experience. I know that I learned alot from watching my own father's serial adultery.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I am not sure what you mean by this because emotional needs are only relevant within the context of a romantic relationship. These kids are not in a romantic relationship. So what do you mean that their emotional needs are being shaped by her absence? How?

How they are raised will determine what they look for in a romantic relationship. Each person's emotional needs are shaped by their environment and how they were raised.

Being raised without a mother will influence what the boys will look for in a woman. They may have a high need for FC because they don't want to repeat the adultery. Their admiration need may be super high because they were neglected in that department as a child. If your parents always kept a neat and tidy home, then you may have a high emotional need for DS in a romantic relationship.

It is wise to help a child understand their emotional needs, and encourage them to find a romantic partner who meets them. As the mom I will be able to see what they look for in a mate as they grow and get boyfriends/girlfriends. As the mom I will be able to see certain emotions that are important to them because I raised them.

It is my job to teach them how to get those needs met by their partner. Since I am a single mom, they will not be seeing how their father and I meet each others emotional needs.

I really like Dr. Harley's article on Choosing a Mate....Compatibility. I have printed it off and although my ds is only 12 I am gradually introducing the idea to him of looking for a proper mate someday. I think it is important for him to understand what his requirments will be for a wife. I want him to set the standard high...and to be the kind of man who will attract a high quality wife.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
But FC and DS do not create romantic love. They are not intimate emotional needs. People don't fall in love over FC and DS, because those needs are obviously not met while dating. You don't even have to be together to meet those needs. Romantic love is created by meeting the intimate emotional needs. Intimate emotional needs are reactions that create romantic feelings. Your children do not have romantic relationships right now so those ENs aren't being shaped.

For example, I came from a very broken home, and my top intimate emotional needs are affection and conversation. That is no different than most, even though I come from a very broken home.

So while I don't agree that emotional needs are being shaped, I do agree that your children can learn so much from this experience. I know that I learned alot from watching my own father's serial adultery.

You learn intimate conversation and affection from your parents. It doesn't matter what kind of home life you grow up in, the fact is your emotional needs are shaped by your environment, how you were raised, and your parents.

I would be a fool to ignore the issue of my children growing up without a father. My girls need for affection will be greatly shaped by this, and if I fail to teach them about this need, they will seek it from any man that would give it to them. It is my job to teach them their high need for affection must also be in conjuncture with other needs so they are choosing a man who is the whole package and not just one-sided. This is where I establish boundaries for them. See the linkage?

My S6 talks all the time, my D8 is much more quiet. These differences will shape their intimate conversation. My D8 would rather be cuddled and quiet when she is sad. My S6 would rather tell me in great detail when he is sad.

If you notice so many folk come on here to discuss their childhood and how that caused their affair. What they are really saying is I didn't realize my emotional needs, so I married someone who didn't meet them, I dropped my boundaries because this new person met some of them better than my spouse. That is why we don't talk about childhood issues. We know your childhood contributed to your emotional needs, it was your boundaries silly that made the affair possible. That is why we are all wired for affairs.

The goal is to direct those posters to understand why they have emotional needs, what they are exactly, and how their spouse can meet them. You can agree with them their childhood helped shape their EN's, but until they adhere to boundaries and letting their spouse meet those needs exclusively, they are likely to have an affair.


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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
You learn intimate conversation and affection from your parents. It doesn't matter what kind of home life you grow up in, the fact is your emotional needs are shaped by your environment, how you were raised, and your parents.

But you don't create romantic love with your parents or your brother, that is my point. Affection and conversation with parents is not even in the same universe as the emotional needs that create romantic love so those are not shaped by your environment. So equating the needs that create romantic love with conversation with your brother or mother misses the point.

We don't understand WHY people have certain emotional needs and don't need to understand why in order to meet them. Whether one's childhood has anything to do with it at all is certainly not relevant. Dr Harley makes it a point to avoid such discussions because it has no relevance.

I do understand why it makes sense to teach kids about MB concepts so they can make good marriages for themselves. That makes perfect sense and I would agree with you there.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
[q
If you notice so many folk come on here to discuss their childhood and how that caused their affair.

And you will also have noticed that they are told to stop the navel gazing, because it is a waste of time. Dr Harley calls it a needless distraction.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I never said you create romantic love with your parents or brothers.

I posted to let Lost know his boys emotional needs are being shaped by their upbringing. Someday these emotional needs will need to be met by a woman, hence "Romance".

It is important for us single parents to help our children understand why they have a high need for admiration. It is directly linked their absent father. If I fail to teach them this need is just one, and you want a partner who meets other needs of yours, i.e. clean house, physical attraction, etc. then my children will fall into the trap of taking the first guy who meets admiration, but no other needs.

It is my sole purpose as their parent to educate them to know what they need emotionally because their EN's will be skewed greatly by their absentee father.

We would do all MB folk a disservice if we told them to ignore this with their children. Yes it isn't relevant or the cause of adultery. Boundaries are the root cause.

It is my job to help MB folk to fully understand their emotional needs. Dr. Harley has done this well by his questionnaires. Those questionnaires are directly linked to how you were raised as a child, teenager, dating, and current adult state i.e. Your environment.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
[q
If you notice so many folk come on here to discuss their childhood and how that caused their affair.

And you will also have noticed that they are told to stop the navel gazing, because it is a waste of time. Dr Harley calls it a needless distraction.

It is relevant to understanding your EN's and why they are the way they are -- it is completely irrelevant when discussing why you had an affair.


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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
We would do all MB folk a disservice if we told them to ignore this with their children. Yes it isn't relevant or the cause of adultery. Boundaries are the root cause.

It is my job to help MB folk to fully understand their emotional needs. Dr. Harley has done this well by his questionnaires. Those questionnaires are directly linked to how you were raised as a child, teenager, dating, and current adult state i.e. Your environment.


huh? Dr Harley doesn't care how you were raised as a child or your environment, so I have no idea what you are talking about. The only questionaire that asks any question about your past is the personal history questionaire, only for the sole purpose of showing your spouse your history. Harley doesn't care about your childhood and doesn't want to hear about it.

I wouldn't dream of suggesting you ignore this with your children, but I think its important to understand the context of emotional needs. If they are defined outside of the context of a romantic relationship, then the point is missed. You don't teach or ingrain emotional needs to children, because they just are. They is not to say that you shouldn't teach children how to achieve a happy, stable marriage. But one has to be able to present the concept of emotional needs in its proper perspective.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
It is relevant to understanding your EN's and why they are the way they are -- it is completely irrelevant when discussing why you had an affair.

It is not relevant at all. What is relevant is understanding WHAT they are and how to meet them in the best way. Again, Dr Harley has no interest in one's "childhood" and views it as a distraction. You seem to be making this up as you go along, PI.



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You are missing my point Melody.

I am talking about fostering an environment that allows our kids to understand why their emotional needs are a certain way, and as they grow teach them how to choose a partner who can meet those needs.

Recreational Companionship is directly related to how you were raised.

Admiration is directly related to how you were raised.

Physical Attraction is directly related to how you were raised.

You cannot deny the direct link between emotional needs, your parents, and how you were raised. It isn't naval gazing to discuss this either. It is very important. It is crucial to teach our children this concept. It is essential we foster that knowledge in them.

What is all boils down to is I am raising adults ... I am raising them for the sole purpose to marry and reproduce. It is very relevant to romantic love. They will not have successful romantic love if I fail to help them understand their emotional needs.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
It is relevant to understanding your EN's and why they are the way they are -- it is completely irrelevant when discussing why you had an affair.

It is not relevant at all. What is relevant is understanding WHAT they are and how to meet them in the best way. Again, Dr Harley has no interest in one's "childhood" and views it as a distraction. You seem to be making this up as you go along, PI.

Correct, your adultery has nothing to do with your childhood, and maintaining romantic love has nothing to do with your childhood.


Where you are incorrect is understanding why you have certain emotional needs - all his books discuss where emotional needs come about and your childhood, your parents, and how you were raised are a direct link.

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