Do these friends and family members know of your affair?

You said you initiated divorce proceeding when you moved out...did you file or not?

black_raven,

Yes, they all know of the affair, I have told them of it.

I did not file Divorce. We went to one session with a mediator in November but haven't been back since.

nesre,

She came to the MC session. The main topic of discussion was the exchange of emails from last Saturday. She brought copies to show to the counselor.

As I indicated before, we had a particularly nasty exchange that was triggered by my impatience with the situation and lack of progress. We both brought up things, some going back years, lots of lingering resentment from not only the affair but many other things.

The counselor read the emails aloud and my wife was very quick to point out how I backpedaled on pushing her into a decision when "she called me on it". She is very much into keeping score on these sorts of things. I let her vent about it then explained my frustrations in that we don't seem to be making progress and things are open-ended with respect to money being spent, kids, living arrangments, etc, just everything in general.

She reiterated that she needs time to work through her feelings to determine if she wants to work on the marriage or not. Bottom line is that I proposed a few guidelines for consideration during this time:

1. No more emails about the relationship
2. Go to MC once per week and relationship issues will be discussed there.
3. Allow me to try and meet her needs (case by case basis)
4. See each other once per week for lunch, dinner, coffee (she was not sure she would commit to this one...will think about it)
5. Cooperate and communicate about finances and expenditures
6. No dating or seeing of others (duh)

I was going to push for a more formalized visitation schedule but it was clear that would hurt her and decided not not. I had the kids for a few days after last Christmas and she said that was a very difficult time.

The counselor wanted to try digging into the pre-affair issues in the marriage but my wife is side stepping that thus far, she is very much stuck on the affair/betrayal and her anger associated with it.

I do separately want to approach my wife and ask her to do phone counseling with Harley, that's the next step. Do you think I should ask her to do that by herself first?

T2S, I don't have much time this morning but in reading your posts, a couple things jumped out.

Your counselor is wrong - you cannot embark on a journey to fix the problems in the pre-A M without addressing the immediate damage of the A. It's sort of like a stabbing victim brought into the ER - an artery was severed, and they are bleeding out. There may very well be other medical problems present in the victim that were there prior to them getting stabbed - but the first thing that must be done is address the gut wound that is killing them.

My own M, which I'll tell you right out is unrecovered, had problems pre-A. And at this date, really, none of them have been repaired b/c the damage from my A has never been healed.

The catch is, your BW has to be willing to let you help heal her.



And this could be your best step towards her allowing you to help her heal. Since things between you and your BW are so strained right now, I'd recommend you contacting the counseling center first. Steve and/or Jennifer are very good at giving suggestions to encourage a reluctant spouse to get on board with recovery. My understanding is they don't talk to spouses together - they talk to them separately. My H wouldn't participate so I talked to Jennifer on my own. Talking to spouses at the same time would likely have a tendency to denigrate into a volley of fault-finding and "he said/she said" exchanges, as in a "typical" MC session.

Even though MB has not worked in my case, I still see it as a viable program, and so much more sensible and action-oriented than other methods out there (and trust me, in the time before I found MB, we tried several...and I wish we'd found MB first).

Thanks WPG.

Do you know of a Reovered FWH situation here that might help T2S?

I know you have been all over these boards the last few years. Anyone come to mind?





T2S

WPG is right on with this.

Did you read the LB's articles?

Did you read up on the most important needs?

Do you understand how the LB$ works?

A simple formula comes together from these.

ZERO LB's + Meet her most important emotional needs (forget about your needs for now) ='s LB$ deposits.

The only way to complete this formula is for you to fill in the blanks with ACTIONS.

You may not believe it but you are still in a position to possibly save this since your BW at least came to MC. Communication even if it is conflict is better than withdrawal from the relationship. BW has not totally shut you out . I believe your BW when she says she is still thinking.

She does not trust your words at this point.

Men and woman do process differently and I will post a link by Dr H on the subject after this post.

Take an honest gut wrenching inventory of yourself. Observe yourself in a third party sense as an observer looking at you.

What do you see as your LB's? What do you think your BW sees? Write it down in black and white. Your inventory.
Work hard to eliminate those behaviors. Any time any one of those come out it withdraws from the LB$. Your account is not in very good standing at this point with your BW.

Quit asking BW if you can meet her needs. JUST DO if she will let you.

Your actions will help more than any words you say. Words are extremely cheap.

Almost every poster has told you the same thing about the MC. Take the money and call Steve/Jennifer. IRL you will probably get more bang for your buck and real life ideas that work than what you have spent on your present MC.

They may be able to give you real life ideas that will work with actions today instead of investigating the past.

Yesterday is gone. Give it a funeral. What can I do today? I can't change one thing about the past history. It is what it is.



Added link

Why are the difference in men and woman so valuable in M?



nESRE

hmmm...as far as recent, nobody comes to mind. GloveOil & herpapabear/tst have been around a while and have lots of good advice to share. Lots more BW's in recovered/recovering M's who post, SunnyD's thread over in Recovery might be a good read for you, T2S. If I remember others I'll come back and edit my post.

Dr. Harley suggests a man an woo his wife for two years.

Trying ... Become Irresistible to her ... what does she want in a man?

Keep the faith because she isn't indifferent ... she is mad. Mad is good because it is the closest to love you can get.

If she didn't care on iota, then you have a problem.

Keep up a strong Plan A ... you have a great chance of getting your marriage back.

All,

Thanks so much for your input. I'm really busy at work today but will keep researching my LB's and her EN's and report back with what I learn.

Allright so I am continuing my research on my LB's and her EN's and am finding I am guilty of almost all of the LB's in some form or another at some time or another.

Primarily dishonesty (affair and lying), angry outbursts (sending her nasty emails), and independesnt behavoir.

What I believe her important EN's are: honesty and openess, financial support, domestic support, conversation.

Which brings me to my current question/problem. We are living separately with little communication between us. An email or two during the day focused mostly on kid things.

I am the sole financial support for the family and have not made any changes to my direct deposit or any of her credit cards....everything is the same as when we were together. She is free to spend as needed to ensure the home has what it needs to function.

I'm peridically monitoring our bank accounts and credit card statements online and have asked her from time to time about a few questionable expenditures. While she has answered me, and the answers seemed to make sense, clearly she is annoyed that I am asking. Her attitude seems to be that I had the affair and it is she that cannot trust me so how dare I ask her about what she's spending.

Some more questionable expenses again popped up over the weekend and I'm dying to ask her about them but think this could be a LB if I come out and ask. Thoughts?

Note: I am having lunch with her today but will NOT bring these things up....will keep things light and focused on what the kids are doing and other topics.....NO relationship talk.

We have a MC session later this week.....that's where we are supposed to have relationship talk.

I also have a phone appt with Harley later this week....will talk with him first then approach my wife about possibly talking with him.

Another interesting note....she has a job interview this weeek. She has not worked outside the home for years but since all this started has dusted off her resume and been sending it around. My gut feeling is that if she gets a job and some income she will quickly do the calculus to see if she can keep the house on her own and then decide on D or not.

I hate to make it all about money but that's what it seems like to me. I am in a down mood today and not very positive about things.

T2S




Good 4 you! You are studying up and realizing what LB's are and how LB's drain your LB$. Keep taking positive action to eliminate them in your relationship.




Not exactly sure what questionable expenses are but asking in a respectful manner is not a LB since you are meeting this need. A LB would be throwing it out in the middle of a tense discussion-"Well you spent XX$$ on XX in an acusitory(SP?) way. Or telling her before you had knowledge of what the $$ were spent on she wasted $$ we needed for X.

Asking logical questions in a non-threatening way is not a LB.

You could explain even beforehand that you are planning expenses for next month is $$ in question going to be a part of the added regular expense? Not suggesting you lie to her. Just used this as an example.

It is all in the manner and tone you approach the subject. Keep in mind you want to add $$'s to your BW's LB$. Doens't mean you have to just roll over and take whatever X$$ were used for with no say.

This will be accomplished with respect and understanding the situation fully before making any judgements.

With the limited communication you 2 have right now there could be a logical explanation from her.

Slow down and listen carefully before acting. In the past how have you re-acted?

On a side note T2S I will not be back on here until after March 8th. I will be in central Africa in the bush country.

I pray your conversation with Steve yields new info that can help you to turn this bus around.

I will check back in when I get back.

Best of luck

nESRE

Had lunch with her today....it went okay.

I didn't bring up the expense thing, just not the right time or place and after I thought about it not that big a deal compared to the bigger issues we are facing.

Slowing down and thinking before acting is best for me. I'm too impulsive.

Enjoy your time in Africa.

Update: I did a phone coaching session with Harley and found it really helpful.

Proposed to my BW that she do the same to try and get on board with the concept of recovery......she is relutant, says too much money and doesn't see the value. I on the other hand see tremendous value compared to the cost of D.

Wow am I frustrated.

Thoughts or suggestions welcome.

Either or both of you can talk to Dr. Harley for free on the radio.

If you as the husband are truly on board, the odds are good that if you will keep consistent making love bank deposits, and avoid love bank withdrawals, her feelings will change. That is so whether she is willing to talk to Steve or not.

As she is the betrayed wife, I suggest you work really, REALLY hard on making these deposits as she allows, as a show of your good faith.

If your wife would talk to Steve, it would certainly give you hope.

However, even if she will not talk to Steve, you can work through the process yourself (perhaps with Steve or Dr. Harley's help) and her feelings will change.

Your signature doesn't mention much about your situation, and I'm unfamiliar with it: how long ago was D-Day? Does your wife say she is willing to try to recover the marriage with you?

She does not have to be on board for you to make love bank deposits and avoid love busters. It would certainly help, but it's not required.

What did Steve advise you to do? One of the best things we can do is help motivate you to stick to the plan he gave you.

D Day was 10/24/11.

We have been separated since then.

BW is unsure of whether she wants to try to recover the marriage.

Yes, I have been avoiding LB's and trying to make Love Bank deposits when she will allow me to meet her most important EN's.

Steve advised me to try to get her agree with the goal of the ideal scenario of her being truly in love with the father of her children and to try and get her to talk with him about the remainder of the process: Goal, Education, Plan, Execution.