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Markos - I did miss your question. I made one post a few weeks ago under another name but for the life of me, could not remember it today. It was about the same general topic but all the responses came across as too harsh and I retreated. I decided to post again and really listen to what everyone had to say. I didn't realize that "once an affair, always an affair." Under that definition, then I am still involved in an affair.  Alis - You are right. I don't think I realized I was crossing any boundary by exploring my feelings before sharing them with everyone involved. I saw it almost as if I were thinking it out in my head, and I certainly don't say everything I think. Thank you for pointing this out because I see now if the situation were reversed, I would not want my fiance "talking out his feelings" with a potential love interest without telling me about them. Ugh. I didn't see or think of this before.
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What is it about a known serial cheater that appeals to you?
You will continue to be an adulterer so long as you remain in a relationship with your affair partner. Your cold feet at this time is your innate knowledge that what you are doing is wrong.
Listen to your smarter side for a change, and halt this relationship. You don't have to make any other decision right now other than to end your adultery.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Markos - I did miss your question. I made one post a few weeks ago under another name but for the life of me, could not remember it today. I do not think you are being honest when you say you cannot remember. Please go look around and find your other thread. Also, you said you've been around here longer than that, so how many other names have you posted under? Force yourself to be radically honest.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I need some advice. I am under a time crunch to make a major decision. I am engaged to be married in a few weeks. My fianc� is ending a 17 year career to move to my town (in one week) and will be looking for a new career down here. All of the processes are in order, the paperwork has been done, the packers and movers are on their way, and I feel like a freight train is bearing down on me. I can�t decide whether to stay and see what happens after I am run over or whether I need to get out of the way and divert the train. "A time crunch" is no reason to marry in haste. You are making a very hasty decision. And, you know it. He is everything I think I want and I�ve never had a better relationship. "He" is a known adulterer and a liar and a cheat and an interloper. Perhaps you might want to rethink things? I find him very attractive, our sex life is great, he is amazingly supportive, and genuinely seems to like being with me. The problems are that I have children from a previous marriage and he will never feel the same about them that I do, he has high expectations for a loving relationship and I feel like I am always letting him down, One major reason (among other reasons) affair marriages are doomed is the level of sacrifice each adulterer makes is never equal. Hence, the marriage begins with the building blocks for future resentments. Re-think. and I am having feelings for my ex husband that I feel like I want to explore. My, my, my. You have "feelings" that need to be explored? Really? Isn't that what caused you to become an adulteress? How about this .... you explore your values? Life is not all it should be if you allow you ever-changing "feelings" to be solely what guides you on your journey. My fianc� knows I am feeling a lot of stress about all of the upcoming changes and that I wish we could postpone or spread some of them out. In reality we cannot do that without quite a bit of hardship, hurt feelings, financial loss, and just general drama. I do not want to do that to him, to us, to my children, unless I feel more confident that I am on the wrong path. I truly don�t know whether its cold feet or something much larger. You are on the wrong path. You don't know what the hell you are doing. Sorry. Truth. As far as the ex husband goes, we had a 15 year marriage with general ups and downs. You mean, you had a typical, average marriage. Due to a series of stressful circumstances I ended up cheating on him with the man who is now my current fianc�. You cheated because you allowed OM to inappropriately meet intimate emotional needs. AKA adultery. The affair was exposed to family and friends in a very dramatic tumultuous way and, at the time, I felt I needed to just get away in order to breath and survive. I moved out, we divorced and I continued what felt to be a very healthy and happy relationship with my fianc�. Two adulterers are never healthy. They both bring inappropriate coping mechanisms to the relationship. You had normal marital "stress" so your solution was to commit adultery. You bring the exact same skill set to your current "engagement". Only in the last six months have I stopped to consider what I did to my family, my kids, my ex and my life in general. GOOD FOR YOU !!!! Best thing you've said thus far.  In the last few weeks I have discussed some of these feelings with my ex, and while he is open to dating and starting over, he doesn�t want to influence my decision. I know that I wouldn�t be walking into the same relationship but I also know we had several BIG issues that would need to change in order of us to be happy and successful together. The top four are distancing ourselves from his family, changing his career, learning to be more open and honest with each other, and establishing better trust. He is aware of these things and agrees they need to be worked on, but he will not offer any promises at this time. I have no doubt I still love him and putting my family back together would bring all of us great joy. You still love him. Do not get married to your adultery partner! Do NOT !!! I realize there is also the option of choosing neither at this time and being alone, but due to circumstances described, that would essentially mean ending things with both men. There is no way to stop time and if I do nothing my fianc� will be here and I will have defaulted to closing the door with my ex. If I choose to explore things with my ex, then I need to find a way to stop the train that is charging toward me and deal with the explosion that will cause. I truly feel both men are great choices and neither path would lead to disaster. I just need to find a way to make a final decision and cope with closing the door on the other man. Tell OM today that you are calling off the marriage. You are breaking up with him. You want no further contact with him. Make a clean break today. Easy? Of course not. The right thing to do? Without a doubt. I am hoping for some impartial opinions. Maybe you all can help me see things in a different light, or ask a question of me that helps me settle the tornado in my mind. No problem-o. Optimism - It wasn't my ex who exposed, it was my affair partner's wife. She told everyone. Shame on you for hurting this woman. You became the zombie in her life. You sucked the life & hope out of her marriage. Shame on you. No excuse. None. Do not make an effort to explain. Accept the shame so you know you really have returned from the living dead. But I do believe my ex is familiar with Marriage Builders concepts. We have both referenced this site in the past and have used the books at various times. Really? Alis - I am the conductor but I don't know how to stop the train without causing destruction and pain for everyone involved. And the only reason I feel that this is a crisis is because I put off doing anything about my feelings and now the time is nearly up. I want to get clear in my head and I want to do it quickly. Hey, life is painful and difficult. So what? Send OM back on his knees to his wife. Melody - I am more than familiar with your advice and stance on this board. To a certain extent I agree with your philosophies. Having an affair is a devastating, life-altering event, but it is not the only grave mistake made in marriages. I realize that topic is a big focus of this site, but looking at someone as though they wear a big scarlet A is not taking into account the rest of that person. I do have redeeming qualities that exist outside of the affair. So what? You zombied another woman's marriage. You taught your children how to lie/cheat/run away. I AM concerned about our affair beginning the relationship and what it tells about both of us. He, more than myself, because he has cheated several times on his then wife. What a catch! If you "keep him" you deserve every damn thing you get. I have been in therapy off and on since this happened several years ago and I do have commitment issues. No you don't. You have normal/average crappy boundary issues. You ARE teachable, are you not? But simply not committing isn't the answer. I do want to be married and I am willing to do the hard work necessary to be faithful and successful. I may not understand fully how I hurt everyone involved, but I am grasping it more and more as time goes on. I hate what I did and don't want that to be a major defining characteristic of myself. I want to do be better and be better. Break it off with OM. Do it NOW before the moving truck arrives. More later. You may be able to redeem yourself .... but you must be able to "take the hits" when told the truth. You are an adulteress. You have crappy marriage skills. You need marriage builders skills. You are possibly teachable. What say you?
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I didn't realize that "once an affair, always an affair." Under that definition, then I am still involved in an affair. As long as contact continues. We have people come to this forum every day in trauma, saying that they found out their spouse was in an affair two years ago, and the affair is over but they haven't healed yet. Then we start asking for information, and we find out the spouse is still working with the affair partner. Well, there you go -- they can't heal, because even though some might not call it an "affair," the affair is still on as long as they are in contact. Every time they see each other, it is a renewal. If you read the Basic Concepts (10 concepts) and Dr. Harley's section on surviving infidelity (29 articles), you will learn how an affair is an addiction. There is only one way to break an addiction: cold turkey, complete elimination of the addicting substance. Dr. Harley says it is as bad as a heroin addiction. Just as an alcoholic can't go by a bar and look at the drinks, or keep alcohol in their home, someone who had an affair can't continue to see the affair partner. Every time they do it is a "hit," and the addiction is sustained. The reason you don't trust yourself to make right decisions right now (good call, by the way!) is that you have gotten yourself into the equivalent of a heroin addiction. You need to cut contact and withdraw, cold turkey, and give your mind time to clear.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Maestro, Pepperband is posting to you.
She's the best. Absolutely the best for the advice you need to hear to change your life to lead to lasting happiness.
Listen to her.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Chapter 1
I was walking down the street - there was a big hole in the sidewalk - I fell in. It wasn't my fault, and it took me a long time to get out of it.
Chapter 2
I was walking down the street - there was a big hole in the sidewalk - I tried to avoid it but I fell in. It wasn't my fault. It took me a long time to get out of it.
Chapter 3
I was walking down the street - I saw the big hole in the sidewalk, but I fell in it anyway. It was my fault, but I knew how to get out of it quickly by now.
Chapter 4
I was walking down the street. I saw the big hole in the sidewalk. I carefully walked around it.
Chapter 5
I chose a different street.
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Markos - I never posted here in the past when referencing this site. I don't typically post on message boards at all, much less about something so personal. And I honestly cannot remember the name I used a couple weeks ago.
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These are the defects for marriages between the spouse and the OP.
1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a switch that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.
2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.
3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.
4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.
5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.
6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and people who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.
7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.
8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.
9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.
10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have already demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.
11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.
12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.
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Having an affair is a devastating, life-altering event, but it is not the only grave mistake made in marriages. I realize that topic is a big focus of this site, but looking at someone as though they wear a big scarlet A is not taking into account the rest of that person. I do have redeeming qualities that exist outside of the affair. When you compare affairs (your mistake) to other mistakes, you are trying to make yourself look better by minimizing your mistake. This prevents you from taking real ownership of your mistake. Other mistakes people make in marriage are irrelevant. This is yours. This is the one you have to deal with. It has nothing to do with a Scarlet A, and everything to do with objectively appraising the situation you are in so that you can deal with it rationally. If you minimize your mistake, you won't give it the appropriate attention it deserves. Don't deflect when you are confronted on your mistakes. Face them bravely, unflinchingly, and go do what needs to be done. I am sure you have many redeeming qualities. Everybody does. Everybody has value. But you can increase your value by overcoming character flaws. One character flaw you are demonstrating is minimizing your mistakes.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Markos - I never posted here in the past when referencing this site. I don't typically post on message boards at all, much less about something so personal. And I honestly cannot remember the name I used a couple weeks ago. I can think of two great reasons to go look for it: 1) it'll help you practice honesty. A lot of liars make themselves forget things so that they can later "honestly" say they don't know. Go make yourself remember. 2) you probably reacted negatively to the advice you received. You probably did not like the negative things you felt and you quickly closed the window and walked off and tried to forget everything. In short, you ran away. If you want to make any improvement in life, you are going to have to stop running away from things you do not want to hear. If you will repeatedly expose yourself to those messages, you will eventually become desensitized: your negative emotional reaction will subside, and you can think logically about what you are seeing and get the value out of what was posted to you. Practice now: go expose yourself to whatever was said to you last time. Go read it, even though you don't want to. Burying your head in the sand and running away from your problems will get you nowhere in life.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I need some advice. I am under a time crunch to make a major decision. I am engaged to be married in a few weeks. My fianc� is ending a 17 year career to move to my town (in one week) and will be looking for a new career down here. All of the processes are in order, the paperwork has been done, the packers and movers are on their way, and I feel like a freight train is bearing down on me. I can�t decide whether to stay and see what happens after I am run over or whether I need to get out of the way and divert the train.
He is everything I think I want and I�ve never had a better relationship. I find him very attractive, our sex life is great, he is amazingly supportive, and genuinely seems to like being with me. The problems are that I have children from a previous marriage and he will never feel the same about them that I do, he has high expectations for a loving relationship and I feel like I am always letting him down, and I am having feelings for my ex husband that I feel like I want to explore. My fianc� knows I am feeling a lot of stress about all of the upcoming changes and that I wish we could postpone or spread some of them out. In reality we cannot do that without quite a bit of hardship, hurt feelings, financial loss, and just general drama. I do not want to do that to him, to us, to my children, unless I feel more confident that I am on the wrong path. I truly don�t know whether its cold feet or something much larger.
As far as the ex husband goes, we had a 15 year marriage with general ups and downs. Due to a series of stressful circumstances I ended up cheating on him with the man who is now my current fianc�. The affair was exposed to family and friends in a very dramatic tumultuous way and, at the time, I felt I needed to just get away in order to breath and survive. I moved out, we divorced and I continued what felt to be a very healthy and happy relationship with my fianc�. Only in the last six months have I stopped to consider what I did to my family, my kids, my ex and my life in general. In the last few weeks I have discussed some of these feelings with my ex, and while he is open to dating and starting over, he doesn�t want to influence my decision. I know that I wouldn�t be walking into the same relationship but I also know we had several BIG issues that would need to change in order of us to be happy and successful together. The top four are distancing ourselves from his family, changing his career, learning to be more open and honest with each other, and establishing better trust. He is aware of these things and agrees they need to be worked on, but he will not offer any promises at this time. I have no doubt I still love him and putting my family back together would bring all of us great joy.
I realize there is also the option of choosing neither at this time and being alone, but due to circumstances described, that would essentially mean ending things with both men. There is no way to stop time and if I do nothing my fianc� will be here and I will have defaulted to closing the door with my ex. If I choose to explore things with my ex, then I need to find a way to stop the train that is charging toward me and deal with the explosion that will cause. I truly feel both men are great choices and neither path would lead to disaster. I just need to find a way to make a final decision and cope with closing the door on the other man.
I am hoping for some impartial opinions. Maybe you all can help me see things in a different light, or ask a question of me that helps me settle the tornado in my mind. FM, This is so sad. Reread your original post & honestly think about how many lives have been affected by your infidelity. Read your responses and let the questions & answers by the responders soak in. STOP!! Your inability to be honest, to be faithful, to think of anyone but yourself is destroying lives!
Dday- Feb 1998
Recovered!!
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What Marriage Builders books do you have? What Love Busters did you and your ex commit in your previous marriage?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all. This alone will cause your marriage to your adultery partner to fail. I can "read" your expectations in your posts. You write this about OM He is everything I think I want Then, you write this: he has cheated several times on his then wife. You ALREADY KNOW that your expectations of "milk & honey" with OM will fail.
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FellowMaestro,
Please, please listen to me. You are about to make a HUGE mistake. I posted here last year as NewCreation2011. I couldn't recall my password to save my life so I had to create a new one to talk to you today.
PLEASE search my old user name and read my thread about what you get when you marry your affair partner.
Everyone else if you know how to link my old thread in your post so she can see it easily please do that for me. I do not know how.
I have lurked here for ages trying to learn and grow and make some sense of my shattered life. I did not post further after my first attempts last year because my presence was upsetting to many of the BS's here and that is not okay. I am breaking my silence today because your story made me feel like maybe for once my mess could be helpful to someone else. If you heed any of my words at all you will save yourself, your child, your ex, your OM/fiance, both of your BS's, all of your respective family and friends a world of pain for years to come.
Please find and read my thread. I will try to hang around to answer any questions I can.
NewCreation2012
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So, what is it like?
Do you *think* you might be happy if you married the person you committed adultery with?
You know, the other adulterer?
It might look like this.
Written by NewCreation on 02/17/2011My perspective is from that of the OW who became the new wife. I hope this helps someone.
You will get to be responsible for destroying the life of another woman. You will get to be responsible for destroying the lives of all children involved. No, children are not resilient. They are sponges and take in everything around them whether they are capable of processing it or not. And when they are not able to process their world being shattered and all the conflicting messages about right and wrong, you will get to deal with all their issues and mistakes and anger as they grow up. You will have to know all the while that whatever is happening is a direct result of your selfishness. If the child fails at school, can�t control their anger, becomes promiscuous, falls into addictions, can�t maintain good relationships of their own you get to know in the back of your mind and deep in your soul that you are responsible for what molded that child. Whether you admit it or not, you WILL know. You will not be able to fix this; it will not work out, smooth over, or ever be okay. Even if you look like the Cleavers on the surface it is under there bubbling and will come out. Don�t think you are special and you will escape this result.
Maybe right now you are in a place where you are in deep denial about the children and you don�t give a crap about the BW. Let me appeal to your sense of selfishness then and tell you what you personally are going to suffer in the years to come�
You are marrying a cheater. Someone who didn�t like what they had at home so they went looking for something better. Or maybe you offered him something better? It doesn�t really matter who started it, who lied more, it doesn�t even really matter if you were tricked into a relationship not knowing he was married at first. Your consequences will be the same. You now have a spouse who gave up one family and chose you and yours. Feels great right? Think again. How long do you think it will take before you stop feeling like a prize?
The minute things go wrong, and face it, in all marriages there are these times, he is going to be looking at you and wondering if you were worth it. And you will feel it. Even if he doesn�t say it right out. He is going to realize that this marriage requires just as much work as the old one did and you are not nearly as perfect in real life as he thought you were and he is going to be angry for what he has sacrificed for you. Now you get to be insecure and feel like you are always fighting to be worth it to him.
You are going to be labeled as the [censored] for the entire rest of your life. No matter what changes or personal revelations you come to, you will be the [censored] that wrecked a home and stole a husband. There will be innumerable family conflicts over this. You are likely to have his kids hating your guts forever. This means that every holiday, school concert, soccer game, big family event like graduations and weddings, and grandkids (yes, it will last that far and long) will be sources of conflict instead of happy times.
You will probably not be invited to a lot of things that your spouse should be attending with his children. You may show up anyway, asserting your position as the new wife. But it will be a conflict. You spouse will have to over and over choose between you and his original family. He is going to resent you for this. You are going to get so tired of constantly being the center of conflict and so tired of all the hate directed at you and no one is going to sympathize with you. When you do impose yourself where the BW and her children and extended family and friends are you will feel the scarlet letter that you wear burning in your chest no matter how high you try to hold your head. I promise you, you will. You and your stolen spouse will fight over this more than you can imagine in the years to come.
And guess what?! When he starts to pull away from you and works late more, or isn�t insatiable in bed with you anymore, or cuts his hair a new way you are going to be terrified. You are going to be terrified because you know exactly what he might be doing next. You are going to be suspicious probably before he actually even does anything because you already know he is untrustworthy.
Chances are he is going to cheat again too. Except this time on you. Now, you get to feel the pain of being a BW doubled by the pain of realizing exactly what you did to someone else. The guilt and shame on top of your already devastating pain from being cheated on will be unbearable. Now listen to this closely NO ONE IS GOING TO CARE!! You are going to hear and know that you should have known better and have the old adages about cheaters thrown in your face over and over. You will not be able to come somewhere like these boards for support because they are going to crucify you! You will be all alone with your pain and your heartache with no one to blame but yourself.
Do not think you are special. DO NOT THINK IT WON�THAPPEN TO YOU!!!!!!!!!! The stats are overwhelmingly high. No one gets married thinking that their spouse will cheat. No one. I promise you are not different or better somehow.
Occasionally an affair partner will grow a conscience and want to be a good person and here is what happens�
Now, let�s say that you make changes in your heart and your life. Let say you find God or in whatever way it comes to you, you realize that you have done something horrendous. Okay, now you actually do care about those kids and that BW. Well too bad. You can�t fix it. Yes, God will forgive you if you repent. Not many others will. And you will have one heck of a time trying to forgive yourself. You will feel sick and ashamed all the time. You will cry many bitter tears.
You will not be able to look at your spouse and feel the same way you once did. All of your memories of when you first met, your first kiss, the early days of your relationship will be tainted. All of those memories that are supposed to be sweet will be sour. You will not be able to enjoy them because you know that whole time it was wrong, wrong, wrong! What are you left with? Not much.
You are going to try to offer apologies, you are going to try to figure out what you can possibly do to make amends and there are going to be no easy answers. You will be told by many that you can�t repent and stay married. You will be told by just as many that if God has forgiven you that another divorce would be just another sin. You will make yourself crazy over this because you want to do the right thing for once in your life and you have put yourself in a situation where it is impossible to know what that it.
Also, if you are one of the few who have this attack of conscience at some point down the road, you are still going to be dealing with all the same stuff above that the unremorseful affair partner is dealing with except it�s probably going to hurt you even more because you now genuinely care. Too bad no one will think you are sincere or trust your words. Why should they, remember what you did?? Of course you do, now go cry some more as if it will help.
There are no time machines people!! You are making a mess bigger than you can ever clean up!!
There is really a lot more I could say about how this is going to play out but this is already getting very long.
Like I said, this is from my perspective but just change the pronouns and it is the same for anyone entering into an adulterous relationship. Man or woman, whether you are the WW, WH, AP, it�s going to end in ruin.
You have been warned.
And if anyone out there is currently involved in waywardness and wants to ask me something, fire away! I will answer any and everything asked if it will get you to stop what you are doing and reconcile your family before it is too late.
Unfortunately if you are already married to your AP don�t bother asking me. I can�t help you because I cannot help myself. I live in the ruins of my own creation. You like me should have seen the light sooner. Sorry.
To the BS out there who may read this, I can only hope that knowing that your spouse is not going to be happy and their AP is not going to be happy helps you feel a little bit vindicated. I promise you that even if they look like the picture of happiness on the outside they are not. They have a cancer eating their souls. You can have a better life. They won�t.
NewCreation2011
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FellowMaestro,
Please, please listen to me. You are about to make a HUGE mistake. I posted here last year as NewCreation2011. I couldn't recall my password to save my life so I had to create a new one to talk to you today.
PLEASE search my old user name and read my thread about what you get when you marry your affair partner.
Everyone else if you know how to link my old thread in your post so she can see it easily please do that for me. I do not know how.
I have lurked here for ages trying to learn and grow and make some sense of my shattered life. I did not post further after my first attempts last year because my presence was upsetting to many of the BS's here and that is not okay. I am breaking my silence today because your story made me feel like maybe for once my mess could be helpful to someone else. If you heed any of my words at all you will save yourself, your child, your ex, your OM/fiance, both of your BS's, all of your respective family and friends a world of pain for years to come.
Please find and read my thread. I will try to hang around to answer any questions I can.
NewCreation2012 Weird. We cross posted as I was quoting you !!!! 
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I think you know that you shouldn't get married.
You are using the following excuses to do it anyway:
1) Money
If you get married, you will spend the money. There will be major issues as people have mentioned, and you will get divorced.
SO then you have to spend more money on that.
2) Guilt
I am not sure if you have considered this, but I think you are using guilt as a reason to get married. What I mean is "Yes, I cheated on my husband with this guy, but LOOK! I am marrying him so ot was TRUE LOVE TM so it is okay."
3) Fear of looking bad to family
4) Don't want to upset affair partner/new husband.
Here is why you shouldn't get married:
1) You are basically coming here and looking for support not to get married. You feel you ahve to get married but don't really want to. We have heard many a story here on MB about people that didn't not feel 99% certain about getting married and then later regretted it. Don't do it.
2) You are building you marriage on a foundation of deception. Statistics show us that second marriages based on affairs don't last. They don't have the proper foundation.
3) You don't even know if this new guy can meet all of your ENs...I can see already that you don't think he can. Sure, in the middle of the affair he met some and your exHusband met some and that was grand. But the grass over the new guy fence isn't looking so green.
Why SHOULD You get married?
1) uh...ummm...not sure. You didn't really say why you want to.
So if you don't get married there will be tears and drama and loss of money...and you will just tell your family that you realized that this was no way to start a marriage and that you made a mistake getting involved with him at all. Peace and calm will return to you and your kids instead of the constant tension you and they would be feeling. Most likely your new guy can get his old job back.
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[Weird. We cross posted as I was quoting you !!!! Thank you so much Pepperband for getting my post here for FellowMaestro. I hope she at least reads it. I literally feel my heart pounding in my chest and am fighting tears, its like I am watching a horrific car accident and I can't stop it! FM, YOU can stop this. I am begging you to at least talk to me. I am real. My story is 100% real. You can learn from my mistakes. There are awesome stories of recovery on this board. Pepperband is one of them. You could still possibly restore your marriage. Even if your ex is not willing to reconcile with you, you can become the person you need to be and stop this madness. You will be happier in the long run. I promise. NC12
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Another Classic:
He'll be different with you, You're special
Author Unknown
You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.
He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his [censored] with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.
He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?
So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.
So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.
And those stories of how his wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.
Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.
He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing baby oil all over you, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.
So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.
Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.
Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his wife. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.
He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.
The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now think he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.
Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.
And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.
He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.
It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.
And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.
And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omitt the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!
And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.
And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandon her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.
And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.
And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.
He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.
You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?
And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.
But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.
He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.
You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.
YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his [censored] together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.
He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.
You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?
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