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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
So "exposure" (only between us) was done. I do not have any intention to vilify my spouse in front of family or adult kids. Here, I am finding very confusing advices about marriage problem and children. Right now I do not want to cause commotion as my kid is about to graduate and is already stressed by scholl work.

Adam, your marriage is much less likely to ever recover if you don't expose the affair. Exposure is a good thing, not a bad thing. Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist with 40 years experience specializing in infidelity and he is a strong advocate of exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy and are held together by fantasy, so when you expose it, it ruins the mainstay of the affair. The more people who know, the more people to hold your husband accountable. It is irresponsible and reckless to consider lying to children about the source of tension in their home.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
As you probably already know, I'm a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency -- letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you -- holding you accountable.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur. An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
My spouse maintains that they are only friends now and that he has right to privacy.

Adam, you should DEMAND that he end all contact for life with this woman. If he won't end his affair - and PROVE that all contact is ended, perhaps by giving you access to his work email and phone - then you should consider separation. And why should you separate? Because women have nervous breakdowns and suffer serious emotional and physical symptoms from tolerating infidelity. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist and he recommends if the wayward spouse will not end his affair within 3 to 4 weeks that separation is warranted.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly. That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS.

The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.

So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover."

But first, you should expose the affair to everyone. [read the link in my signature] To your family, his family, the OW's family [if she is on facebook, I would send letters to all her facebook contacts] close friends and children. This affair has gone on for a long time and unless you take some action, your H may eventually leave you for this ho. Everyone should know about his affair. Do you want to face this skank at your H's funeral some day?

Here is what Harley suggests, ESPECIALLY for long term affairs:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

And be sure and SAVE all the documentation of the affair in a very safe place. You will need to show others the evidence.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
They even arranged for going out together with our then 16 year old daughter to restaurants and theaters. When on bussiness trip my spouse had this person as a translator to the co-workers. My spouse was so bold and even invited the lover to my father-in-law house during one of such visit.

Oh Adamandeve. There are so many things I want to say to you. There are many here who have suffered this type of "double" betrayal... we understand. really we do.(((hugs)))

Your WH has betrayed many people over the years and it is very likely that many of them suspected that something was not right. I think your children will be shocked that you have not told them the truth about who that woman really was. Someone who was assaulting their family right in front of them!
It is not vilifying your WH, it is telling them the truth about their life. They deserve to know this.

Originally Posted by Adamandeve
My spouse did not apologized or expressed his concern about my sadness and grieving and seems to be very content that they did it. My spouse actually screamed at me for making "theatrix". My spouse that 20 minute conversation was sufficient and talking about it makes my spouse nervous. My spouse will reach for alcohol and I do not want to allow for such opportunity.

You cannot begin to recover and stop the hurt until your WH begins to acknowledge the pain and disrespect he has caused you. This will not happen if he is allowed to hide behind a veil of secrecy. Exposure is the first step to KILL the affair by bringing it to the light of day. It is NOT vindictive...it is healing.

You will be surprised at the support that you receive from others when you ask for it.

"The truth will set you free" indiegirl


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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
I simply would like to protect my kids agains being lied to or lying to others.

I have no idea what this means.

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Thanks for all the replies. Most of you are past grieving and sadness and understandably have a distance and very rational attitude. I am stil finding out and processing this info. It is just too new.

On exposure to family:
One of my kid is away and I do not want to inform her via e-mail, the other has many final exams. I cannot just do it now. I also need to prepare on how to do it the best.

On empathy:
My spouse does not seem to regret or have any empathy (toward me). From what I read so far, that is not too uncommon. Somehow, for all these years, I did not realize that his philosopy on how to live life is so much different than mine. No one can force anybody to have compassion or empathy. I guess I should get over that.

It appears that he does want to move on but I still have so many questions.
I aam thinking about some professional to guide me/ us through this stage of the crisis.


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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
It appears that he does want to move on but I still have so many questions.
I aam thinking about some professional to guide me/ us through this stage of the crisis.

Adam, he wants to "move on" because his affair is not over. He wants to sweep it under the rug and maintain contact with his OW. Are you willing to accept that status quo?

Did you read my thread about exposure? You certainly can get professional help, but counseling is of no avail when there is an active affair and traditional marriage counseling is worthless when it comes to recovering a marriage after an affair. Marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They are destructive to marriages.

We are telling oyu what it will take to save your marriage. Expose the affair, affair proof your marriage and then use this program to restore the love in your marriage. We know how to help you do this.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Yes we are past the worst, but when bleeding and on the floor we came here and were told to expose. That is WHY we are recovering.

Time will entrench his affair. Time spent subjected to abuse will weaken, not stregnthen you.

Many people on these boards regret doing a late exposure because it is akin to sitting on train tracks and expecting time to save you from the oncoming train.

You need to act now.

Yes it is difficult to give people bad news long distance or at key times. However that is life.I had to expose on the anniversary of a bereavement.

It is no different to telling them of any other family emergency.If you or a loved one were critically ill in the hospital you would tell them, this is no different.

People can take it. You the BS, the person hurt the most are holding up (on your own too), why do you assume you are the only one who can?

Originally Posted by Adamandeve
I aam thinking about some professional to guide me/ us through this stage of the crisis.

A great idea. Try the counselling center at the top. I would go with Steve H as he is excellent with reluctant Hs.

Come up with a good exposure plan and then get your feedback here. Steve H can also coach you through an effective exposure


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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This is what it will take to fix your marriage, AFTER you have exposed the affair and killed it:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
My spouse does not seem to regret or have any empathy (toward me). From what I read so far, that is not too uncommon. Somehow, for all these years, I did not realize that his philosopy on how to live life is so much different than mine. No one can force anybody to have compassion or empathy. I guess I should get over that.

The reason he has no empathy is because he is high on his affair. An affair is an addiction no different from alcohol and narcotic addictions. The falling down drunk does not feel any regret or remorse until he is sober and exposed.

However, exposure has the effect of lifting the fog and making the affairee truly repentent:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
On January 1st this year, I have stumbled upon a single e-mail that strongly suggested that my other half has an affair.
I have immediatey started to think that I am loosing my spouse.
What followed next, were three weeks of trying to re-kindle the good 'stuff' in our marriage.
All looked very good and promising. My spouse didn't know that I am suspecting any affair.
And then came the greatest schock.
I realized that this situation had been going on for last 10- 11 years.

Is it moral and ethical to read spouse's e-mails ?
What I am to do, if I do not want to be challenged as a person snooping through personal letters.
Adamandeve,

are you legally married?

What sex are you, and what sex is your spouse?


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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
What I am to do, if I do not want to be challenged

This is called avoiding conflict, and it will not serve you well in marriage, where conflicts need to be faced head on and resolved.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Adamandeve
What I am to do, if I do not want to be challenged

This is called avoiding conflict, and it will not serve you well in marriage, where conflicts need to be faced head on and resolved.

No one can avoid conflict in life !

Being challenged is an OPPORTUNITY to grow some character muscles and exercise your integrity !

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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
On empathy:
My spouse does not seem to regret or have any empathy (toward me). From what I read so far, that is not too uncommon. Somehow, for all these years, I did not realize that his philosopy on how to live life is so much different than mine. No one can force anybody to have compassion or empathy. I guess I should get over that.

This sounds like a pretty miserable existence for you.

You are right though...it is not uncommon for waywards to have no empathy when they are allowed to sweep it under the rug and have no consequences to face. As far as they are concerned it is just another day.

"An object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force." Newton


Are you sure that this is what you want to sign up for?


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I am married. I did not want to put gender on my / experience with betrayal of my spouse, because I was hoping for very balanced replies with no stereotypes.

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Originally Posted by Adamandeve
I am married. I did not want to put gender on my / experience with betrayal of my spouse, because I was hoping for very balanced replies with no stereotypes.

The gender is very important so of course we need to know. Men are very different from women. We can't help you if you won't give us a complete and rational story. Leaving out pertinent facts will not result in a informed, intelligent response. Is this some of kind of game you are playing?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I do not understand why someone removed a fragment of my post.
I struggle with so many questions and hope that this forum is here to help me.
If that is not a case please tell me.

I simply would like to protect my kids agains being lied to or lying to others.
What means that I want to make my kids aware of what had happened in our marriage so they do not repeat my experience or they do not hurt someone else in the future.

I also have to think, if I really want to have this news broken to my sick parents. I am strong I can live through that but they might not.

These are extremely important issue. I certainly do not want them to learn from my children or other family members. Can we responsibly discuss that aspect of exposure ?

**edit**

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Yes, but if a spouse has been cheating, they need to know the truth. You're going to depend on the cheater to just tell the kids the truth? I wouldn't.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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You stated that your children are 25yrs and 18 yrs. So technically they are adults.


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Adam/eve, before this conversation continues, you owe the people here the truth about your gender. It makes no sense to ask folks to help you when you withhold a very basic, necessary fact. We need to know your gender and that of your spouse.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I am female.

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