ok well im back and not for a good reason, so an update since my last message here:

For those of you who dont know here is a link to my wifes latest thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2604297#Post2604297

The last few months have been the best in our marriage for 4-5 years. Before these months Ive never fully commited to my marriage, in a sense of I always thought if we divorced i'd had a chance at a good single life and achieving my selfish goals etc so I set up in win/win scenario in my head whether I stayed or went. This lead to me never being in "failure is not an option mindset", critical as Steve made me aware for recovery to work.

So we reached breaking point again for our marriage 3 months ago and for the first time ever I decided it was time to grow up and commit to my marriage. I can only describe what happened after as miraculous. I suddenly became attentive and loving, missed my wife constantly, contacted her always when out of the house because I wanted to and not because I had to. I could go on but I fear im looking for admiration again but it is important you understand the incredible turn around I took mentally and therefore our marriage took. Understandably my wife resisted the changes at first as to be honest the overnight changes must have seemed completely fake. We also had a lot of false starts since D-Day 3 years ago. But she is now onboard and sees how natural everything is with me and how im loving and embrasing my marriage too.

We now fully implement the MB principles and follow the recovery plan including UA time and EP boundaries.

So to the new problem.

It was my birthday on Friday 9th March. My friends arranged a night out on Saturday as we havent been out for ages and with 4 kids and a very limited budget it isnt easy. We both went out and had a great evening. A good group of close friends and just having a laugh. We both drank but this isnt an issue or a boundary for us when we are together. At the end of the evening we where sitting in a pub garden around a table. I had my wife sitting to my right and my male friend sitting to my left. A single friend in the group had brought a couple of girls to the table and they all sat opposite us. My friend to my left started a conversation with one of the girls. She got up and came towards us, I thought nothing of it and just assumed she was going to talk to him. Suddenly she sat down on my knees. Because I was sitting normally this meant she sat on my hand. I removed my hand straight away. She spoke to my friend next to me for 30-40secs and then went back to her seat. There was no contact at all between we and the girl. During the time she sat down I was aware it would bother my wife so I tried to cuddle her next to me but she pushed my hand away and gave me angry looks. I didnt do anything to remove the obvious issue (this girl) I just kept trying to cuddle and stroke my wife. After the girl sat down in her own chair my wife excused herself to the toilet. I like a total dweeb just sat looking at the floor thinking that I just hurt her. The girl saw me and realised what she had done and apologised and I just said dont worry.

Basically after that wife got cab home, I walked home, we chatted for hours on phone and then in person.

I have such a low self worth, confidence and esteem; that I hate confrontation. To have said something to the girl would have embarassed me and her and god forbid I do something as manly as that. Instead I chose to damage limitate with my wife hoping we could resolve it later. Reflecting back it would have been so simple to have dealt with it, I could even have been nice and got up and offered her my chair and gone a cuddled my wife and therefore not cause a scene but I didnt and now ive hurt my wonderful wife again and undone the amazing progress we have made.

I want this marriage more than anything and I believe she feels and sees that finally now but I understand she has to protect herself from me. This cowardly act means I have broken the EP of 'no inappriate contact with any women'. My wife has posted a full list of our boundaries as I believe I have previously.

Im scared ive ruined everything and just want her back. I will start everything again of course, id do it in a heartbeat for her.

Please advise id be happy with any input on this matter...

Learning,

First, recognize that in a few seconds you have sent recovery back to day 1. In the blink of an eye, you have wiped out every positive thing you have done up to this point.

How can there possibly of been no contact with this woman sitting on your hand/lap? This is an attempt to minimize your failure to protect your wife's feelings. What is there about you that makes it ok for women to plop their tail down on you in front of your wife? I cannot imagine this happening to ANY of the men I know. They would not allow it and their very demeanor would not invite it. Your comment to the woman "Don't worry" shows that you would protect some trashy person versus protecting your wife's feelings.

Tighten up on your extraordinary precautions, eliminate situations that make these kinds of things possible, and become a caring, protecting husband.

AM

Hello AM,

by 'no contact' I meant that we didnt speak, look at each other or anything more than I described. I meantioned the parts you brought up individally as they were the key points. I was just pointing out that I hadnt left out anything else such as a smile, or a word etc....

Yes I realise I have trashed everything and must start again as im already doing that. I am communciating my feelings and remorse with my my wife regularly and I believe she can feel and see that I am genuine.

I understand what you mean by the EP's but actually believe its my flaws such as the confidence etc that stops me enforcing them. An EP could say "dont let any woman sit on you" but if I cant/wont deal with it the same issue will arise. Please see from how I wrote my first post that I was immediately aware of what was happening and that it would be effecting my wife, I didnt and wasnt enjoying what happened so it isnt a selfish trait or EP issue alone.

Do you agree or am I just wimping out?

Is NB28 your wife?

So what do you plan to do for "just compensation" for your BW?

Did you talk O&H with her about this and what you plan to do to tighten up your boundaries?

Hello BrainHurts,

Yes NB28 is my wife and the link to her thread is in my first post.

I will revisit my boundaries and address them to compensate for what has just happened. As I posted above I would like guidance as I feel that to enforce the EP's I need a serious kick up the [censored] confidence wise.

The just compensation would be to develop into the protective husband she wants and deserves and nothing less.

edit: Yes we have spoken O&H about the whole situtation. Because she was there she witnessed it too anyway. So it was more about exchanging points of view and me understanding how she felt and the damage it had caused.

So let me understand this correctly? In order to protect your wife you need a "serious kick up the [censored] confidence wise"?

So after all your time learning Dr. Harley's concepts you're still struggling?

The actions you speak to your wife, are what?

What about emailing Dr.H and ask him? You write it and follow up with him, not your wife?

Better yet, you know your wife's top needs. What does she need from you?

What are you going to do in the future to have this never happen again?

Do you truly understand what it does to your BW each time you have a FR?

Learning,

You have it backwards. You are using "lack of self esteem" (what is that anyway, except feeling bad that you behave poorly?)as an excuse for poor behavior. If you behave in admirable ways, you will have positive self esteem.

Your current demeanor somehow invites women to plop their behinds squarely on your lap and hand. As I said, I don't know any men that would end up in this situation. Their behavior just would not allow it because their boundaries are such that no woman would think it ok. There are many ways this situation could have been avoided. Have you brainstormed them with your wife?

AM

Why the H did you not stand up and send that tramp sailing off of your lap?!

Sitting there w/ that - I think the word whore is bleeped on here, but... whore - on your lap, and petting your wife whilst the skank sat there - are you kiddingme?

That's like some kind of weird, sick threesome mess.

Your wife is a WAY bigger, kinder, more wonderful person than I am. You would be missing some teeth, and be homeless.

This is a joke, right? A married man was not man enough to tell some skank to get off his lap?

First off, you have poor taste in friends if you consort with people who act like that and secondly, you aren't man enough to tell some skank to get off your lap? Are you serious? That has nothing to do with "extraordinary precautions" but with simple common decency. Married men don't let women sit on their laps. You have to be told this?

And I wonder why your wife didn't slap that ho right off your lap and then smack you? If you didn't have the balls to slap that ho off your lap, why didn't she?

It sounds to me like you run with a rather BAWDY, uncivilized crowd.

So "the useful part"

yes I was pathetic and nieve enough to allow that to happen and the more I re-live it the more thoroughly ashamed I am of allowing this to happen at all. I am a wimp and I know this must change in order to salvage and to secure the future of my marriage.


And now the "not so useful part":



Excuse me ML but what exactly do you mean? Our friends are good people and if you read my wifes thread she feels exactly the same. The two girls that joined us at the end of the evening were not anything to do with the group so please do not be so brash as to label our group as such. Also our friends were horrified when they learned of my behaviour too.

Secondly my wife acted with dignity and as a woman not a cavewoman. Something that she is proud of. If you believe differently that issue is with her and not me so ill not comment further.

This really intrigued me AM and triggered an insightful conversation with my wife. I was interested as to what I was or wasnt doing, see the obvious things I didnt do, I didnt make any eye contact, didnt smile, didnt even talk to her so I figured I must be missing something. My wife believes that this girl was looking at me alot from the moment she arrived. We believe that because I see myself so lowly that I literally believe (very nievely) that something like this situation could happen to me. This is something I now must REALLY work on and fast. I can raise my awareness of possible threats and need to be aware it can come from nothing too. I also need to have a plan for ever eventually. So if someone chats to me - i know instantly what to say/do/act. If someones touches me - the same etc..

So I will get a plan in my head in terms of how I will act in future and then sit down with my wife and ensure this meets her needs too.


I am a little concerned how you brush over this AM, these issues are suffered by millions around the world in every culture and country, although more prominent in US and UK due to society and whats considered sociely acceptable. People also regularly commit suicide due to this issue. However im only saying that to raise awareness im nowhere near that bad ok. I get by in life most of the time with no/little issues. However when the BIG moments come along like it did I wimp out and cause my wife more pain. If everybody just need act better there would be no need for therapists and the world would be a happier place.

It is so simple, you stand up for your wife and use the boundaries you should have with any woman, you should never accept this kind of behavior from any woman and it is up to you to stop it and have backbone enough even in a crowed room to not let this or anything like this happen whether your wife is there or not......
It was simple and you were a coward and so disrespectful to your wife, I would have been so embarrassed and hurt as well......you are a grown man, grown men do what is right that is what respect is........
I agree how do you even go to places that has women who act like skanks......you either act like a man of integrity or you will aways hurt the woman you claim to love.......is that the plan, or are you going to have backbone for what is right from now on......

Thank you, L2G, for the hilarious story and accompanying attempt to portray yourself as anything but a scuzz-ball!

Let's put this into a different prism and see what it projects, okay? Instead of a hot single skank, suppose your lap-dancer were a 180lb male dock-worker with body-odor issues. Or how about a well-mascaraed transvestite homosexual prostitute. Exactly how long would you in either case have sat there (agonizing!) while trying to grope your wife as camouflage?

You're a disgrace, several times over:
1) Letting it happen and continue.
2) Expecting your BW to "understand".
3) Trying to garner sympathy/support here.

Now excuse me while I find your BW's thread to tell her how sorry I am that you're such a loser.

BTW:

I am a wimp and I know this must change in order to salvage and to secure the future of my marriage.

translates to:

I am a horn-dog and I know this must be papered-over in order to trick my wife into not dissolving our marriage.

Good luck with that!

That is why I am here Jess.... for help....

You know what, I dont care how sad this is but im not sure it would be any different. My issue is with confrontation whether female/male, in person, on telehpone etc... there are NO exceptions. My wife is always mad when someone cold calls the house and she shouts and threatens them with court action and yet I sit and listen and then eventually say goodbye 5-10mins later.

Im sorry that people here can be so black and white and into stereotypes but you know what; ill keep being honest no matter how sad and pathetic I am so you might as well just try and engage me as armymama has. Thanks to her insightful posts she has triggered some very good conversations between my wife and I today while a post like yours is wasteful and your attempt to shame me didnt work as im shaming myself by being honest and bringing my cowardly and wimpish behaviour to a public forum.


If you say so ill leave that to my wife who knows me to decide thanks.

Learning2grow,

Do you really want to be a "former" wayward husband?

What can you do to protect your BW in the future?

How can you tighten up your boundaries?

I read your post and I see that a woman in a bar sat on your lap, the lap of a married man. So I question your ability to choose "friends" and the environment in which you hang. You were with these people after all. Maybe the lesson of the day is not hang out in bars. So yes, I will label the entire group since they are the ones who invited this skank to sit with you.

I thought it was amusing that YOU think you are in a position to decide to what is or isn't "useful." How does someone with the poor judgement to allow a woman to sit on his lap have the judgement to decide what is or isn't useful? He doesnt'.

The fact is that is you didn't make a mistake, you just have tragically poor boundaries around women after all this time.

make sure you prove it every day, do things on your own to prove to her that your boundaries are in place and in working order, do things without asking, think ahead with any situation and let your wife know what your plan will be from now on and what she can expect, you do that don't wait to be told, don't wait until a situation comes up, have a plan tell your wife what you plan will be let her tweak the plan if she thinks something else will work better, prove to her that she is worth it and you make sure the backbone kicks in when it should, you keep letting her down and you will hurt her over and over again and eventually lose her or destroy your marriage for a pointless reason

This is complete crap.

Your BW should be very alarmed, if she is not already, about the status of your "recovery". You are very dangerous and not serious about following EPs.