Actually there is very little need in the world for "therapists." And there certainly isn't a place for therapists in the matter of "self esteem." People have self esteem when they act in esteemable ways. Its really that simple. No one needs to go to a "therapist" to understand that simple truth. Using your low "self esteem" as an excuse for poor, unmanly behavior is a failure to take accountability for your actions. So lets not play the self esteem card. If you want to have high self esteem then start acting in ways you can esteem.

Guess who is the last person on this thread qualified to talk about "dignity," my friend? You, a married man, allowed a skank to sit on your lap right in front of your wife. AND DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. You disrespected her in the worst possible way. She had every right to slap that skank so hard that her future grandchildren would feel it. As any dignified woman would do in the face of such agregious disrespect.

If your wife did slap her off your lap, as most women would do, that would reflect badly *ON YOU*, the man who put her in that position in the first place.

If you had any dignity at all, you would not have allowed your wife to be treated so disgracefully in your presence. HOW DARE YOU?

Sure there is an exception, a confrontation with your BW.

So really what you mean is: If I have to choose between upsetting a skank or my BW, I will choose my BW.

According to your wife's signature, it took about 3 years to go from DD to active recovery. It seems it took years just to bring you to the point of considering recovery.

Now this, which has brought you back to square 1. If you are incapable of dealing with situations that humiliates your wife and brings your back to square 1, due to self esteem or whatever issues you claim, then you are not recovered as you think. End of.

Perhaps at square 1, you should consider the EP of no alcohol and no socializing with other females. As you clearly cannot handle yourself in such a situation.

If I have to choose between upsetting a skank or my BW, I will choose my BW.

Beat me to it, SQ!

But then again, I've been busy tracking down transvestite homosexual prostitutes in his town to see how long L2G will provide a comfortable, welcoming, seat on his lap, as he said he would!

Actually, reading her thread fully through, she would be better of considering plan B... at a minimum. You are not recovered and hopefully she gathers the strength to place real boundaries and protect herself.

You, 3 years into 'recovery', still consider your pride and the feelings of a drunk strange female to be more important than the humiliation of your wife. Dangerous stuff.

DITTO. After all these affairs, and going 3 years with NO RECOVERY and nothing has changed? What is there to save?

Oh Brainhurts without a doubt, the last three months have been the best of our entire marriage. When we first got together of course it was amazing but we were relying on naturally metting each others needs etc and we were young enough for that to have been easy. But these last three months have been perfect. We have grown closer and closer and my wife was feeling more confident in herself than she had been fir ages.

Now I have done this we are back to square one and beyond but that doesnt stop me for a second to want to start again and start that road once again but this time without the possibility of me doing this again.

I am re-acquinting myself with my boundary list as to be honest its quite a while since I read it. I will alter anything that I can to tighten up any grey areas following this latest incident and then read them everyday until im confident I have learnt and memorised them and am ready to properly live them.

Off to bed now its 1am here, ill address the other posts and my plans to move forward first thing in the morning.

Hi L2G,

I'm glad to see you're posting on the forum.

Your current situation is not as bad as you might think.

Hopefully it will help you prepare for the occasion when you are in the grocery store with your wife and one of your OW's appear out of nowhere and she feels the urge to start a conversation with you, right there in front of your wife!

What will you do?

Learning,

What role, if any, did alcohol play in the incident of the other night? Do you have different boundaries with women when drinking?

AM

This was edited this morning for those that might not realize as its not newest post

In was a typical pub/bar found in every city around the world with all ages socialising, drinking different quantities of alcoholic and no-alcoholic drinks. Yes it was a busy evening (saturday) which tends to be for younger people partying I wont deny that, but it was my only day of work around my birthday and my wife and I had no issues with the day or location of the night out.

I will only stress once again that our friends are very good people and yes one of them brought the skank into our group, but I cant blame them for not perfectly screening them first and I wont just suddenly cut off the few single friends I have just because of my actions. If my boundaries and strength of character were appropriate this would never have got as far as it did and no issues regarding friends etc would have arisen so lets focus on that please. If you wish to mention my friends again ill not post about it again. I guarentee if I read my wifes thread (I never do) she will have the same support towards our decent friends too.

Jess this was a good post thank you. I have a copy of my boundaries in my hand and to be honest its been to long. Ill go through it and address anything that needs tightening up or maybe just adding in altogether. Then I will read it everyday this week until I memorise the whole list.

I like the idea of being pre-emptive and as discussed with AM earlier in this thread I will set myself up with a body armour of rebuffs for any possible situation both seen and unseen. When speaking to my wife she said that she already knows exactly how she would deal with x,y,z happening, and I realised I dont have that. I assume it wont happen to me and im aware that MB101 is people who dont think it will happen to them end up the wayward everytime so ill got on that asap.

Ok sorry I got it wrong ill rename it self confidence then. Its frustrating as you know what im describing and yet you are knit picking to make me look bad. I do that on my own thanks quite well. Yes I have low self esteem too but ill accept what you say on that matter, yes if I was a better person im sure that would correct itself.

Its obvious I didnt mean esteem now you have responded as people dont commit suicide over esteem. I dont really the need to carry this on but if you post again, ill respond accordingly.

If we waited till I sorted my own issues out the marriage would be left to die. In the earlier days after d-day I tried to explain to my wife that I needed to sort myself out before I could help her. I tried hypnotherapy and counciling. But it was so unfair to leave her to heal herself and if you read her thread you will see that she practicely completely self healed from d-day.

So no personally im not recovered to fully protect my marriage which is why I need the EP's etc to keep in check what im not able to control myself due to my own personal issues. However well I might do most of the time, when the big situations come along like saturday when a huge issue like confrontation comes along I didnt deal with it and now as you know I am here. As stated to a couple of people before today im working on tightening my boundaries and learning them to carry with me.


My wife and I did discuss this but to be honest she absolutely loved the evening before this happened and we go out like this maybe once a year. I believe for one or at least very few situations like this a year my boundaries should be able to protect us rather than removing one of the very very few fun times we have together.

We do discuss alcohol as on here is very much frowned upon. A boundary of mine to not to drink alcohol away from my wife as it reminds her of the affair. I have repeatly asked her about in her company and shes is more than happy to be normal with it. If I drink 1 unit of alcohol a month or two its a lot for me and same for my wife so please realise we drink hardly anything at all.

Go for it, ill even find one for you if you wish. Id love to see an MB stereotype go down the pan

Anyway I told myself I would avoid the sarcasm and post sensibly from now on as it helps me deflect but some things are too silly to miss. Ill not post again about this.....

Hello,

You are right in terms of I realise I must prepare myself for all future situations, simply believing this cant happen to me is bull**** and exactly what landed me in all this in the first place. I am so guilty of being nieve and my wife has always commented on this. Its just pathetic that it takes a huge situation like this to make me listen.

Hi AM,

I dont believe the drinking had much effect on my behaviour, in fact its a shame the alcohol didnt make me let down my barriers and just be plain rude and deal with the skank, that would have been great. I do however consider the fact that the alcohol may have mean I wasnt at all aware of my surroundings. Maybe if I wasnt drinking I may have noticed her looking at me as my wife says she was. Maybe id have been more aware as she got up and walked around the table. So yes things could have turned out differently but I think all in all whatever the situation with alcohol I still should have been able to deal with this. I wasnt unconscious and was lucid enough to be aware it was upsetting my wife I was just to pathetic to deal with it appropriately.

I have a boundary to not drink away from my wife in any company male or female. We have dsicussed situations of when we are drinking together and have never felt the need to change this. I will discuss with my wife again as to be honest I drink so little I wouldnt really mind quitting alcohol outside of our house leaving just the rare relaxing beer at home once a month or so.

ok I'm off for a while as I want to focus on something concrete...my boundary list....