Also read this Carrot and Stick of Plan A

Also you are worth it. Remember your husband is foggy and will say some crazy things. You just stick to the plan and you'll be fine.

We've all been where you're at.

I don't care if he believes pigs can fly. He behaved in disastrous fashion toward you with his affair. It's going to take a lot more than a few months for him to earn any semblance of trust. He sounds like a spoiled child who wants to bury his sins and just move along, regardless of your feelings. It's not that easy. This is a very narrow path the two of you have to navigate. And part of recovery does NOT mean one spouse should disregard another spouse's feelings and concerns by having an opposite-sex friendship that they refuse to give up.

Read this, if you haven't already: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

ellie, how did he meet up with his affair partner? Does his AP's husband know about the affair? What EPs has he put into place to reassure you that his boundaries are firmly in place?

I am concerned that this 'casual' female friend of his appears to carry a lot of weight with him. He says he doesn't interact that much with her. If that's the case, it should be a simple matter for him to completely eliminate contact with her if that is what it takes to reassure you. He shouldn't have separate opposite-sex friendships in the first place.

Ellie this more than anything signifies ongoing waywardness to me.

You seem to have been under the impression that your husband was a sober, sane individual choosing a mate from between you and OW.

But what sober, sane man would put his wife in such a cruel contest!

When he (said) his A was over you continued to consider him a sane person who had chosen you and only you and could be trusted to keep his word.

ALL waywards, without exception are addicts like alcoholics. Having two women meeting needs causes such huge deposits of dopamine in the brain, more addictive than crack cocaine, they never want to give it up.

You meet most of his needs. She met a few. But he attributed this new feeling to her and chased her for that feeling. But eventually he realised your needs meeting skills were necessay. You with someone else on the side.

But he has to keep you in order. He has to put great effort into making you believe everything is your fault.That you're not worth it.(You aren't alone here. Its called gaslighting after the movie the gaslighter)

You can't trust the alcoholic to go to a bar and drink whenever he wants, nor can you trust a WH to EVER have a female friend.

Snoop, snoop, snoop. You ARE worth it and we will help you Plan A like a rockstar.

He knew the AP through the girlfriend of a friend of his. His friend didn't approve and broke off the friendship with my WH when the affair became open.

AP husband knew. He didn't inform me.

EP... nothing, except he doesn't move in the same social circles he used to. He has isolated himself in a lot of ways. He was complaining to me today about how isolated he had become and was blaming me. The only person I asked him to not have contact with, aside from OW, is this woman.

He expressed that he thought I wanted him to only spend time with me and he felt it made him lonely. Then he said that he was spending time alone a lot and he didn't even WANT to talk to people. He said, "so where do you see your place in THAT?"

I don't recall trying to push him to only spend time with me. Honestly looking back, at that time I DID want to spend time together. We always did, he asked to and I was always thrilled to be with him.

He also told me that during the affair when he saw me so unhappy, he had said if I was unhappy enough to leave, I should, in order to protect myself. This was before I really knew what was going on, though I could see there was something going on and I was unhappy. I stuck by it, though. His point, he said, was that because I didn't leave, I ended up getting hurt a lot, so it's my responsibility for not taking care of myself and protecting myself.

Somehow that leaves a big hole in my chest to know it was my fault.

Unless you have dementia you would remember this. A WH telling you you've done things you don't remember is a big sign of gaslighting.


Does he tell you that you don't care about him or his feelings? That you only wanted him back for your own selfish reasons and you don't really love him? That if you loved him you'd be happier and would let hom do whatever he wanted?

Does he ever compare you negatively to POSOW?

Did you ask him what he meant by this? Why does he feel isolated? Who has he cut out of his life that is causing him to feel this way? I suspect it is NO ONE. (Except the female friend Ask him. Um, no. This is wrong, wayward thinking. He should be taking care of the most important thing in his life: YOU.

He says he knows I love him and care about his feelings. He knows I wanted him back because I love him. I am able to financially care for myself, we have no children. I just love him and missed him.

When he compares me to AP, he calls her dumb and he says I am beautiful, talented, smart, and he loves my sense of humor and artistic mind.

He has always had this thing about refusing to do something if he thinks he is being forced to do it. I never force or give ultimatums anyway. I ask him. I say would you please. He told me today, he sees this turning into him being forced to do something and he won't do it if he is being forced. I asked him again, and he said he would think about it.

Maritalbliss, I don't know who else. As far as I know he is still talking to her, though he says he barely ever does. I can't prove otherwise. Normally I wouldn't be so sensitive, I just am to her.

I wish I felt I was the most important thing.

Well he's just going to have to get over that, isn't he. This isn't about him. It's about the two of you and your marriage. It's not all about him.

That's good. That's MB

However there are exceptions where you have to make demands

If he was violent. You'd demand he stop

Adultery is as abusive _ it makes you feel unsafe in your home.It makes you feel your husband is a no longer a protector but a coconspirator with a woman who is trying to take yourlife

You can demand he keep all your requirements until you feel safe once more and he has paid you 'just compensation'

Well hey, there is something positive. So I want to say it. For over a year, he has not even opened up until recently to complain about anything. He opened up today. I validated a lot, he complained a lot, expressed his feeling of having "tried everything" in the past and his feelings of hopelessness saying "and nothing worked" in the past and he feels the damage is beyond repair.

I think he is frustrated with the current lack of progress. It hurt to hear a lot of things, but he is talking about it, where before he was clamming up. I wish I was better at it, I got a little forceful replying after a while that it really didn't help for him to make being friends with her a priority over me and I have a right to ask for him to step up for me.

He talks to me like I am the cause of the problem. He says we are better off if I just left the old stuff in the past and avoided creating new traumas by kicking up the fusses I have been.

I just wanted to be ok in the situation. When I thought he had gone NC with his friend for me, I was really improving and he was so happy too.

When this actually happens you'll see a huge difference. Both of you.

indiegirl, I was going to say, he has kept me very well in order by scaring me. i have been terrified he would leave again. like he would go and never come back. he was doing this thing in the affair time where discussions would be hard and he would suddenly walk out and not come back a couple of days. He would turn off his phone, refuse to answer email. One day that happened and he was just gone. For that 3 months. I felt like I had been tossed into a black hole.

So when he starts getting upset, I start getting scared and have become very timid.

Except the last week or two, when it has gotton intense, he has said to me he thinks discssion is getting unproductive, and he would like to take a break and talk the next day. I say ok, and we do.

I am still very anxious though. This is seriously annoying him because I can get very needy. Any suggestions on how to handle the fear and neediness?

ellie, am I reading this right? HE had the affair, and YOU'RE afraid that he's going to leave you if you try to repair your marriage?

Yes, you understand right.

He came back and when he did I was so happy to see him. When I started asking questions, he would clam up. If I persisted, he would get angry and shut me out further.

In response, I try very very hard to hold all of it in. Eventually the pain and anxiety reach such a level it comes out and I am, as Dr. Harley calls it, having a disrespectful outburst. I really have been. Every few months and he is outraged at me, very wounded, upset... I know it has not been helping and I will stop doing that now.

I need a way to redirect the anxiety. I can see I am having an abandonment issue. It is very bad.

Lately he seems more tolarant of the anxiety, but not much more. I don't want to push it because he really gets to a point of such bitter hopelessness that it scares me he will give up and walk again.

You need to push it. Your marriage can survive his anger but not an affair. Your being timid and saying nothing is allowing him to walk all over you, and continue his horrible behavior.

First step you need to take is exposure.

sorry, my point was this: I think he is getting discouraged by the lack of progress and I am afraid he will leave due to the lack of progress, not because of trying to repair things. He wants things repaired, but he believes the things I am asking of him, ie, discard the friend, are stupid, because he is not doing anything ( in his mind) to harm me or our situation.

lack of progress= me still insecure, upset and not showing happy.

He is doing plenty to harm you. He does not want to drop the friend because he likes his fixes and bad behaviors.

ok, I should try plan A first?

Considering I am guilty of a lot of disrespect and probably have come across as rude, volitile and demanding.. I should try plan A before anything else?

No, you have shown NO disrespect. You need to question him. Wanting him to stop his despicable behavior is not a selfish or rude thing!

The odds are heavily in the favor of this friend being a new OW, and you should make it clear that this is non-negotiable.