Any ideas from anyone on meeting the EN honesty/openess with a WW??

Not sure i'm tracking with you. what do you mean?

CV

Hi CV. I am reviewing her ENs and brainstorming new ways to meet these with renewed vigor. The list:

1. Honesty & Openess
2. SF (Steve thought this was possibly affection instead)
3. Conversation
4. Rec companionship
5. Family committment

My question: what can I do to meet the HOnesty/Openess EN, since it is her top one? Share feelings more often?

Or should I focus on the others (while always being honest/open)?

Had another call with Steve. Basically, he said to keep following the plan, stay on course, avoid LBs of course, and meet ENs as best as she will let me. This will take time, so be proactively patient...

Yes. that's a good start. Specially if you can share them in a positive light (Hon, I'm really struggling right now with...)

I find that plain frank conversation helps me withe that en. Whether it's about work or dinner or whatever.

CV

Thanks CV. That is helpful.

She has changed her tactics and WW is now trying to give me the cold shoulder at home and avoid speaking to me except as necessary. Such a change from one month ago when we were having SF! I continue to try and plan A and avoid all LBs. She has alot of AOs now, but I do not react, only act. I slipped though once last week, first slip in months, but quickly recovered and apologized (raised my voice and slammed door in response to her slamming door in my face).

Our exchange this afternoon:
WW: i want to minimize conversations with you unless it concerns our separation. I am sorry. If we continue to live under one roof I have a requirement - you leave me alone. otherwise I am always ready to discuss separation. we live under one roof - we stay away from each other, otherwise i wont be able to continue this, I am sorry.

Me: WW, i hope we can avoid making our situation more challenging. our kids like to see us spending time together. we take one day at a time.

Me: I hope we can make again our living together enjoyable instead of unpleasant, more like one month ago, when we were interacting with each other with more care. I realize we are in a tough place right now, I just think it would be easier to navigate through this place by showing care for each other, if for nothing else as the parents of our two kids.
anyway, have fun walking. if you change your mind about me joining you guys, just let me know.

We then later talked by phone and she very angrily says she does not believe these changes in me, especially my focus on our kids all the time. She was screaming at me, but I answered calmly, then she calmed down and we said bye.

How should I respond to this cold shouldering? Just go about my business cheerily and keep inviting her all the time to things? This is what I did last fall and it slowly, slowly worked.

Basically, how to plan A through this?

You know the answer.

As Steve said keep plan A'ing.

Your WW has not defogged and does not want to believe the changes she is seeing in you. This is the reason to keep plan A'ing so WW see's that these changes are permanent.

I have not read your thread completely but i will.

But from the stuff ive read id say life is too short.

This comes from a guy with a fww who is beyond remorseful so take LITS for what its worth.

I think this program among many possible outcomes lets you know when to cut bait and move on.

Blackhawk, the main drivers for my FWW in regaining her attraction and committment to the marriage was multiple factors.

However, early on, I tended to be overly needy. This was a HUGE attraction killer. Once I started acting more independent (meaning focusing on myself and MY standards to stay in the marriage), things drastically changed.

From an outsider looking in and not knowing all the factors that got you where you are, is there a chance you are not holding HER accountable for her actions and participation in the recovery?

Respect and attraction are typically directly related to a man's confidence level in himself. Also, I have learned not to be sucked into her emotions/drama. I help when she asks for help but just listen otherwise....then go make myself a sandwich!


I cringed a couple of times reading your thread and it crossed my mind if you are still checking up on her actions. I would hate to think another person has entered into your equation again.

Yes, I can speak from experience.

First, you can only meet her needs if she lets you meet her needs. Leading by example allowed me to break through to my FWW.

I had moment of weakness 8 years ago at a music festival where a woman kissed me and I kissed her back. Nothing else happend but it weighed on me for years. I confessed this to my FWW months ago. My goal was to Lead By Example and not ask for anything more than I was willing to give.

I shared the story and we discussed again all of our EP's which included rules for both of us.

Blackhawk,

I meant to write this to you a few days ago, but I suspect your WW was triggered by Valentines day and some joyful memory of OM.

I don't know what to do about that aspect of affairs, my W has never turned on OM2 as she finds him faultless. W has never even admitted to much fault herself. Just a week or two ago she mentioned some charming detail about OM2s lifestyle, one that I never heard before, this is after 20+ years. She just doesn't get it.

God Bless
Gamma

Blackhawk, yes you Plan A through this.

The next time that your WW speaks about separation, you say, "I refuse to speak about separation in any way, I will only speak to you about marital recovery, would you like some tea?" You don't actually have to give her any tea, but you want to move the subject on.

When she is having her AO's think of her as a small child that is throwing a temper tantrum, because that is exactly what waywards are like. Don't worry about it. Let it pass. Don't engage her. And if she becomes disrespectful or abusive, let her know that one of your boundaries is not to allow anyone to speak to you in such a manner, and WALK AWAY. If you feel like YOU are about to blow, DISENGAGE.

Keep PLan Aing.

Blackhawk,

I agree with Scotland, I think it's probably what you are doing anyway......time, time, time. .....
Just look at this way right now you are just helping her heal from herself and her mistakes, that is a rollercoaster for her as well........
Stay buckeled in and just try to enjoy parts of the ride for now, the giving and loving part.........she will have to believe in the changes at some point, everything will lead her there......

TheRoad, yes I guess I do know the answer, you're right. There are no shortcuts, just keep working the plan, stay on course...

Thanks MikeStillSmiling for responding to my thread. For now I am continuing my plan A. I still have a lot of fight left in me, and I'm patient. I will continue to do my best and see where MB and Steve and the vets here can take me.

What is LITS by the way?

20YearHistory, I appreciate your attention to my situation. I think that sometimes the appearing needy thing has been an issue, but more after this last pullback. I was like a starving man that started to eat again, and then again it was taken away (translation: I began to have expectations). I am re-anchored now and back on track. I appreciate your comments on acting independent which I interpret as focusing on improving myself for myself and for my kids, and also in avoiding her drama. I have to keep reminding myself this and to act, not react.

On checking up on her actions, I have done some work on this the last month since the pullback, and continue to do so as opportunities allow. Let's say I am 75% sure there is not a new OM, but that 25% remains uncertain only because I do not have full access. Another person entering the equation is a worry of course, at least in theory. I will keep checking to the best of my ability as standard procedure.

Leading by example I guess could be thought of as plan A/ing without expectations, right? The tough part right now is getting through those walls and her allowing me to meet those intimate ENs again, as you noted. I will keep chipping away...