|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708 |
I am not sure why you think OCD has anything to do with any part of this (btw, I am mentioning this a spouse of someone who has it).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240 |
Sometimes, as SusieQ, and many others have said, just not LBing is sometimes a good PLan A day.
Take time to get through this yourself.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803 |
I am not sure why you think OCD has anything to do with any part of this (btw, I am mentioning this a spouse of someone who has it). He has had it since he was a child along with stuttering. He is also not a great communicator and stuffs things inside. I believe there could have been something that happened to him early in life (something traumatic). He has a problem and this is an addiction, but what has caused this? If he can't get to the bottom of it and help himself to heal, then I just don't see how we can work on our M. You have to love yourself in order to love another. I need him to come clean. Honesty is the first step.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589 |
Starfish,
My H and I had similar issues. H was lying, even after the polygraph. He actually passed the three questions on the polygraph, but lied about all kinds of other things. My biggest mistake was "pushing and pulling" recovery along while my H was not fully on board and committed to openness and honesty.
Your H lies because he is in the habit of lying. Just like my H, there is no other reason than he considers himself first, is selfish and entitled. He does what he wants and then lies to stay out of trouble. It has nothing to do with his childhood or if he has OCD. Whenever your H stops his dishonest behavior, not only will he feel better about himself, but he will be worthy of remaining in the marriage.
My H changed when I told him that I did not want to stay married to him and that I wanted to never see or speak to him again unless he met certain conditions. One of these conditions was attendance at an MB weekend - what is now the online program. It has been a difficult couple of years since then. But my H quit lying in Feb of 2010 and he is like a new, improved version of himself. We are in a recovering marriage.
Take a look at the false recovery thread. I think it will resonate with you.
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650 |
Sf I'd consider cancelling MC. Isn't this the same one who counselled you not to do the Poly?
Your H will simply gaslight you with the counsellors help.
You will then find it impossible not to LB and you will be blamed for everything then.
Its sends a stronger message to say: 'I'm not interested in coubselling until I see honesty'
He's desperately trying to wiggle down escape routes to avoid the poly and MC has been effective at this in the past.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240 |
SF, most waywards have childhood traumas. Most BSs have childhood problems. Your WH is suffering from one HUGE problem right now, and it has NOTHING to do with what happened, or didn't happen to him as a child. HE IS A LIAR. Now, as a wayward, he of course would need to be a liar. He didn't fall into this. He made choices, every step of the way that has led him to where he is now. He continues to make choices, today, which harm YOU.
Focusing on his OCD, or his childhood trauma will NOT help your marriage. It will NOT help you recover your marriage.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
[If he can't get to the bottom of it and help himself to heal, then I just don't see how we can work on our M. You have to love yourself in order to love another. I need him to come clean. Honesty is the first step. starfish, I assure you the only "issue" he has is his dishonesty and his secret second life. That is the only problem. And loving yourself is a form of narcissism that he surely does not need at all. He has enough problems right now. Focusing on his childhood and other issues is a distraction from the real problem. PLEASE don't go down that rabbit hole. Your marriage cannot afford any more distractions than you have now. Please stay focused on the real problem and that is that he is still lying. And you know it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956 Likes: 1 |
Marriage counseling is more than likely NOT to help. MC's don't know how to deal with infidelity and have no idea how to build a romantic marriage.
After my H's first affair, we went to MC, too, every week for about 6 months. She didn't discuss the conditions that led to the affair, nothing about protecting the marriage (EPs.) Just a lot of blather about communication and conflict resolution.
Nothing about remorse or Just Compensation.
We still ended up with a marriage that led to more emotional affairs (H's, not mine) and PA. I never had his passwords, he wasn't committed to honesty or to POJA.
What a colossal waste of our time and money.
MB is the best way to recover from infidelity and to create a romantic and passionate marriage.
Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010
Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
As a clinical psychologist who has been in direct therapy with 50,000 individuals and supervised over 600 counselors, I have not found that resolving issues of the past does much to help people deal with issues of the present. In most cases I've witnessed, it makes matters worse because it drags the most unpleasant experiences of the past into the present. I know that my perspective is in conflict with many therapists who are trained to treat the past before they can treat the present, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence that this approach is more effective than letting the past stay in the past. My personal experience is that dredging up the past actually increases the risk of suicide and other dangerous symptoms of mental disorders. Another important reason that I am opposed to bringing up issues of the past is that it wastes time. When you could be forming an effective plan and putting the plan into motion to resolve an issue of the present, you spend months, and even years focused on the past while the problems of the present keep building up, eventually burying the client.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
"Some counselors think it's a good idea to "resolve issues of the past" by talking about them week after week, month after month, year after year. It keeps these counselors in business, but does nothing to resolve the issue. In fact, it usually makes their poor clients chronically depressed.
My experience as a Clinical Psychologist has proven to me that dredging up unpleasant experiences of the past merely brings the unhappiness of the past into the present. The problems of the present are difficult enough to solve without spending time and energy trying to resolve issues of the past, which are essentially unresolvable. You can make your future happy, but you can't do a thing about bad experiences of the past, except think and talk about them -- and that makes the bad experiences of the past, bad experiences of the present." Dr. Willard Harley An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us.
Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.
I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803 |
I spoke with OW#1 and I do believe her. She told me that if my WH told her they were having an affair, he is lying and that is f*d up! She didn't know that he wasn't telling me about their meetings afterwards, but did say that he got s$&t from me for a whole week after their first lunch that I knew about. She told me that she did know we were trying to have a baby, so he did talk to her about us. She said that WH has been her friend for years, but they rarely spoke on the phone and texted every now and then, which seems to be true from the phone records for his personal cell phone. I explained to her the difference between an emotional and physical affair and she said she never looked at it that way, but then agreed by the definition that it must have been emotional, even though she didn't really see if that way before. She profusely apologized to me and said that she f*d up and she was truly sorry. The boat day sounded as if it was exactly the way WH described: He fished and she talked and YES, she does talk ALOT! I told her that he failed the polygraph (as she works for the Sheriff/Police dept. She is an officer). She told me that if he failed, he is still lying!!! She reminded me that she passed the sample questions regarding the numbers, but not on the main questions, so the machine is showing that he is lying! She said that she is still in NC with WH and hasn't been since the NC email and she will continue to respect my wishes. She told me that I probably wouldn't want to, but if I need to call her for anything else or if I had other questions, that I could contact her.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803 |
So, who do I contact at MB?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709 |
I spoke with OW#1 and I do believe her. She told me that if my WH told her they were having an affair, he is lying and that is f*d up! She didn't know that he wasn't telling me about their meetings afterwards, but did say that he got s$&t from me for a whole week after their first lunch that I knew about. She told me that she did know we were trying to have a baby, so he did talk to her about us. She said that WH has been her friend for years, but they rarely spoke on the phone and texted every now and then, which seems to be true from the phone records for his personal cell phone. I explained to her the difference between an emotional and physical affair and she said she never looked at it that way, but then agreed by the definition that it must have been emotional, even though she didn't really see if that way before. She profusely apologized to me and said that she f*d up and she was truly sorry. The boat day sounded as if it was exactly the way WH described: He fished and she talked and YES, she does talk ALOT! I told her that he failed the polygraph (as she works for the Sheriff/Police dept. She is an officer). She told me that if he failed, he is still lying!!! She reminded me that she passed the sample questions regarding the numbers, but not on the main questions, so the machine is showing that he is lying! She said that she is still in NC with WH and hasn't been since the NC email and she will continue to respect my wishes. She told me that I probably wouldn't want to, but if I need to call her for anything else or if I had other questions, that I could contact her. Starfish. That is what OW said to me also. She even invited me in to have coffee anytime I needed to talk. She was lying and she was very good at it. Looked me straight in the eye. I believed her.
ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Recovered
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 520
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 520 |
I am not sure why you think OCD has anything to do with any part of this (btw, I am mentioning this a spouse of someone who has it). He has had it since he was a child along with stuttering. He is also not a great communicator and stuffs things inside. I believe there could have been something that happened to him early in life (something traumatic). He has a problem and this is an addiction, but what has caused this? If he can't get to the bottom of it and help himself to heal, then I just don't see how we can work on our M. You have to love yourself in order to love another. I need him to come clean. Honesty is the first step. I have OCD. It's not a reason or a cause for an affair. Don't move the goalposts.
Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449 |
I spoke with OW#1 and I do believe her. Please don't. I have talked to STBX's two OW who both lied to me, OW3 I didn't speak with but I spoke to her BH and she lied to him. And I also spoke to my sister's WH's OW and she also lied. I only hoped she might give you more information, but it sounds like they lined up their stories and they are sticking to it. Dr Harley basically says that once some EN's are met outside of marriage (eg, intimate conversation) it is just a matter of time it becomes physical. Your WH and OW1 had a long time EA and they had plenty of opportunity to have a PA (like on the boat). I am so sorry to tell you that I do not believe for one second that they did not have a PA, starfish.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
WH just sent me the following email:
I'm e-mailing you regarding your text since I'm at work.� First off I'm not surprised by the results, because I'm a mess, plus I was woken up out of my sleep at 4:30 last night with a gut trenching feeling about the test, and that was when I wrote that e-mail last night.� I want to tell you that I'm telling the truth.� I'm not hiding anything from you.� I'm sorry the test does not tell you that, and I know that will�weigh heavily on you, but maybe I'm one of the 5%.� I assume you don't want me to come by tonight to do yard work?� I'm glad you still want to see our MC tomorrow.�
�
I love you so much and miss you so much.
* My IC said that it would be good for us to discuss the results with our MC tomorrow and for me to explain that he needs to get help for himself before we can work on our marriage. I started thinking about a lot of things and my husband had to see a speach therapist at a Ver young age for stuttering, which he still does on occasion. This can be related to trauma early in life. He is also MAJOR OCD. He is very sick and I know he needs help!! Total baloney. Do not get anywhere near this man. Do not go to therapy with him.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240 |
OW lied to me as well. She friended me on FB. Even though she had that she was addicted so some guy  Guess who that was? She lied to my face. She lied to me on the phone. OW are GREAT manipulators. She doesn't want you to tell her BH that she was having an affair with your WH.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240 |
So, who do I contact at MB? The coaching center.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 520
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 520 |
The OW lied to me - she wrote me a letter telling me she had no idea he was married.
Excelt she did. And her family busted her on that particular lie. LOL
Do not trust the OW.
Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 803 |
Should I call OW's H now?
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
433
guests, and
42
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
