Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 72
8
Member
OP Offline
Member
8
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 72
It's been 20 months since d-day for us. I can go many days with out breaking down and crying and I never lash out at my husband about his betrayal anymore. Sometimes we actually enjoy each other and we seem like a happy family. I haven't forgiven him, though, and although i believe in forgiveness, i just don't see how I ever can. Yesterday was the anniversary of "their" anniversary. The day they "gave into their passion" the first time. The day he ripped my heart out and stomped on it for the first time. On days like that I am incredibly sad and I remember this : that no matter how we get along now, I have no guarantee that he won't act in the selfish, and childish way that he did then. I have no guarantee that he won't throw me over for some other bimbo that gives him anything he wants and wants nothing for herself (until she gets him, that is). He used his affair partner unashamedly for 8 years and she would have let him go on using her with no promises of commitment or even a dinner out, a trip, or a hotel room. There are women like that - that have no self- respect.
I read that the closest you can get to a guarantee is your husband being truly remorseful for the pain he has caused you. So much so, that he would never want to hurt you again.
I haven't gotten that from him. Not even a sincere apology. in fact', he blamed me by saying I didn't want sex often enough. Never mind that we had 4 small children, one a new born and the oldest with special needs. Never mind that he was working all the time and rarely spent time with me and the kids or helped out at home. He didn't get enough sex with me, so he was open to his coworkers advances. So what if I get ill and can't have sex? Or have to travel to care for a sick parent?
How do I know he won't do it again? Often I feel trapped. i am trying to keep our family together, and I still care about my husband, but I don't respect or admire him and can't see how I ever will again.


BS(me) 47
WH 48
DDay 7/9/10
M 21 years
4 children,17,16,13, and 10
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
My D-Day was about the same as yours and the "anti-versary" of the beginning of my FWH's first day of his PA is next week, so I can identify with you somewhat. The reason (not the excuse) for my H's A was partly lack of fulfilling sex--which is so very often the reason. I still struggle with triggers and bouts of resentment, and I have shelved the whole forgiveness subject. I am still too hurt to say the words, I forgive you ... But am in a much better place than you. The difference is that my H "gets it," is very remorseful, and is fully on board with the MB program. We are very much in love again. He is willing to put up with my meltdowns and is learning how to console me without getting frustrated and angry himself, since he just wants me to forget the past and move on with him.
It doesn't sound like you and your H have made any progress at all. You don't refer to the MB program. I see that you have made many posts but I haven't read them. Is there NC? Has there been exposure? Are EP's in place? Have you and your H read SAA, HNHN and LB? Do you listen to MB Radio together? Have you considered MC with the Harley's or someone using their program? You owe it to your children to restore your love and save your marriage. It will make you both so much happier.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by 8yearsoflies
There are women like that - that have no self- respect.
I read that the closest you can get to a guarantee is your husband being truly remorseful for the pain he has caused you. So much so, that he would never want to hurt you again.

8yrsoflies, the reason you are so resentful this far out is becuase you are not following the program. The way you know that you husband won't do this again is you remove the conditions that made his affair possible. He had to have carried on a secret second life in order to hide an affair that long. You remove his ability to conduct a secret second life. You don't spend any leisure time apart, no nights apart, etc. You create a happy, integrated marriage where his needs are being met and your needs are being met.

As far as "forgiveness" that comes with just compensation. JC means he creates a lifestyle where it would be impossible for him to cheat again. Has he done that? Are you holding him accountable to do that? Recovery from an affair is not something you can wing. There is a very narrow path.

Check this out: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 47
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by 8yearsoflies
On days like that I am incredibly sad and I remember this : that no matter how we get along now, I have no guarantee that he won't act in the selfish, and childish way that he did then.

I read that the closest you can get to a guarantee is your husband being truly remorseful for the pain he has caused you. So much so, that he would never want to hurt you again.

I haven't gotten that from him.


This is also my stumbling block. My husband has never shown remorse nor really apologized for his A. In fact he has said in the past that he is glad that it happened because it helped us rebuild our marriage. Well, doesn't that add LB$ to POSOW's account someplace in his brain instead of bankrupting it? This is a topic we are going to discuss this weekend with our UA time.

I wonder if some people are just incapable of truly understanding the pain they caused. I know if he did understand the true pain, he would be remorseful.

I just wrote the following then paused: "I don't think the JC involved and EP's in place is enough "punishment" for them to understand." Hmmm... Maybe that's it. I still don't feel like he was punished enough for this? Maybe I let him cake eat for too long. Stayed in Plan A too long. Didn't give enough stick with the carrot before so I feel like I never got all the anger and resentment out of my system so it's still there?

How can I lose the resentment when there isn't remorse? Maybe that is it. I don't feel like I can feel JC has really taken place until he is remorseful. Even if 8YOL is following the plan, I think this can be a big issue. No remorse equals the BS feeling that JC isn't complete.


Me - BW 50
WH - 49
DS 21
DD 17
M - 27 years
EA - 9/2009-4/2010 (HS girlfriend/fiancee)
Confrontation Day - 1/15/2010 (D-Day to me was in 9/2009 she contacted him via Classmates. Emails from OS on 1/13/2010 give me evidence of EA)
D-Day of my own EA in 1989 - 1/19/2010
NC Letter via email - 4/8/2010
Broken NC - 10/21/2011
NC Letter via email - 10/24/2011
NC Broken and PA one night stand - 8/24/2012
Sessions with Steve Harley begin 8/31/2012
Handwritten NC Letter confirmed delivery 9/4/2012
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
Have you read Dr. Harley's new article?
How Can Trust Be Restored after an Affair


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 47
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you read Dr. Harley's new article?
How Can Trust Be Restored after an Affair


Yes I have. It was why I linked to the website from the newsletter email and then to this Bboard yesterday. And why I'm looking at this part hard again in my own situation. Here is a quote from the newsletter:

"It's all about understanding how trust is created and destroyed. Trust is the belief that your spouse won't do anything to hurt you and will be honest with you. It assumes a level of care that forms a protective envelope around you."

I understand completely that POJA and PORH will lead to trust. And I know that part of our issue is that we just haven't gotten to any level of mastery with POJA and PORH yet - it takes lots of time and practice, especially after 25 years of IB on both sides. Heck, it's a full time job!!

I just don't know if I can ever believe that my spouse will never do anything to hurt me again and will always be honest with me, and that saddens me. I don't know if I will ever get to a place where I truly feel that protective envelope that Dr. H talks about.

I think a lot of that stems from the issue of feeling like WH has no remorse. As I said above, I do think that when the WS has no remorse it makes the BS feel like the WS doesn't understand the pain they inflicted. It feels like remorse should be part of the package of JC. But you can't "make" a WS feel remorse.





Me - BW 50
WH - 49
DS 21
DD 17
M - 27 years
EA - 9/2009-4/2010 (HS girlfriend/fiancee)
Confrontation Day - 1/15/2010 (D-Day to me was in 9/2009 she contacted him via Classmates. Emails from OS on 1/13/2010 give me evidence of EA)
D-Day of my own EA in 1989 - 1/19/2010
NC Letter via email - 4/8/2010
Broken NC - 10/21/2011
NC Letter via email - 10/24/2011
NC Broken and PA one night stand - 8/24/2012
Sessions with Steve Harley begin 8/31/2012
Handwritten NC Letter confirmed delivery 9/4/2012
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
I don't think you can "make" anyone feel remorse. That is something on each person's shoulders.

That is why Dr. H says once all the details of the affair are out to never discuss it again. If a wayward is truly repentant it will show by there actions.

If you think everyone shows remorse the same, you will be very disappointed.
Are You having a tough time getting over the resentment?

Time is your best friend right now.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Harley makes some interesting comments about remorse. He says wayward women rarely show remorse after an affair and it does not stop recovery.

He says the opposite about men.

He says if a WH is NOT remorseful and does not come to his wife with hat in hand that he is not serious. And I believe that is very true in both 8yearsoflies and PlanAprincess's cases. This is why they are still struggling so much.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Harley makes some interesting comments about remorse. He says wayward women rarely show remorse after an affair and it does not stop recovery.

He says the opposite about men.

He says if a WH is NOT remorseful and does not come to his wife with hat in hand that he is not serious. And I believe that is very true in both 8yearsoflies and PlanAprincess's cases. This is why they are still struggling so much.

Awash yup you're right. I just heard a radio clip where he said that exact thing about WH. Thanks


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 47
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Harley makes some interesting comments about remorse. He says wayward women rarely show remorse after an affair and it does not stop recovery.

He says the opposite about men.

He says if a WH is NOT remorseful and does not come to his wife with hat in hand that he is not serious. And I believe that is very true in both 8yearsoflies and PlanAprincess's cases. This is why they are still struggling so much.

Awash yup you're right. I just heard a radio clip where he said that exact thing about WH. Thanks


BrainHurts - Do you remember or can you find the radio show you were listening to? That would be so helpful!

MelodyLane - Is that in writing in any of the books or on the website in any of the articles? I have read about and heard on the radio shows differences in how a WH can be in love with the AP and BW at the same time, so it's a bit easier to reign a WH back to the marriage. And I've heard/read that the WW tends to move her love over to the AP, so BH's have a more difficult time with getting their WW back on the road to recovery. But I don't think I've heard the difference in remorsefulness before between WH and WW. Would be very interested to read/hear more!


Me - BW 50
WH - 49
DS 21
DD 17
M - 27 years
EA - 9/2009-4/2010 (HS girlfriend/fiancee)
Confrontation Day - 1/15/2010 (D-Day to me was in 9/2009 she contacted him via Classmates. Emails from OS on 1/13/2010 give me evidence of EA)
D-Day of my own EA in 1989 - 1/19/2010
NC Letter via email - 4/8/2010
Broken NC - 10/21/2011
NC Letter via email - 10/24/2011
NC Broken and PA one night stand - 8/24/2012
Sessions with Steve Harley begin 8/31/2012
Handwritten NC Letter confirmed delivery 9/4/2012
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
PAP, he has said it many, many times. Try searching his archives, or better yet, send him an email on the radio show.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818
Likes: 7
Listen to about 10-15 shows and you'll be bound to hear it!

For betrayed husbands, Dr. Harley mentions that many a betrayed husband has short-circuited recovery and prevented it by trying to make his wife's remorse a condition of recovery, essentially demanding she feel remorse that she is only likely to feel later.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 167
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 167
I think he has to show remorse if he really wants to stay with you and he's really sorry he hurt you.

If he doesn't understand the impact of his affair on you, and he's still focused on himself and how everything affects him, I think you need to consider Plan B.



Married 31 years, 5 kids, 4 GK



Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 230
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 230
Remorse...... I remember being so offended that my wife would say she was sorry right after D-day but I felt like it was just lip service. She wasnt remorseful until the fog completely lifted....until total separation from the offending D-bags


WW-30
Me BH-35
OM-1 EA/PA for 2.5 yrs
OM-2 EA/PA 3 mos
Married since Nov 2002
DDay-April 4th, 2011, DD#2-four days later
DD-3
Working on recovery

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (NewEveryDay), 1,357 guests, and 77 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5