Road:

Boo hoo? Really?

Let me elevate the discussion: Your advice -- that I should actually say "I'm triggering" and explain why -- hasn't been offered before. I had assumed -- from previous advice given on this thread and the overall forum -- that the right approach is to say is something along the lines of "I'm having a bad day" and ask for extra support. That to mention the trigger equals mentioning the affair.

On a side note, Road: Your DJ about my work and my FWH's work regarding MB principles is insulting. We have worked hard on our EPs and ENs-meeting in the 1 year and three months since DDAY (not two years and three months, as you mistakenly report above). I'll respectfully request, again, that you refrain from posting on my thread unless you can adopt a more civil tone. I'm here to offer and receive support, glean ideas to continue to improve my marriage and strengthen our adherence to MB principles.

Armymama:

I will definitely go look at the resentment thread. And perhaps that is at the core of my funk. I'll report back after research.

Cheers,
SP

Hi Sweetpea...triggers suck, I understand! For example, I drive by the hotel my H had his ONS frequently, it is off the interstate and unavoidable. Often we drive by it together and I get a little bummed. But...and this is key...not talking about the trigger helps in the long run. You get desensitized eventually. The first time was awful, now it is just a bummer.

MB principles clearly state NOT talking with your spouse about your triggers. (The Road is kinda coming off rude but his advice is also WRONG) Vent here but do not bring them up with your spouse. This has been a huge lesson of self control for me, especially since we are still in the same town as OW #1 until our big move in June.

Triggers are enemies of good conversation, they bring the past into the present and generally can spark AO's and DJ's so you are much better off NOT BRINGING THEM UP! It doesnt seem fair but when you signed up for recovery it didn't mean it would be easy

It was suggested to me that holding hands or a hug during those tough times is the most helpful step and most likely you will have to initiate that...he may or may not know why you are upset but he will figure it out pretty quick and remember actions speak louder than words. Hold hands...hold your tongues. Good luck!

An additional thought that I considered yesterday but am just getting back to post. (Long day!)

Part of the issue is that you want your H to be more proactive when he sees you hurting - as I see it. At least that's what it is for me: I want to know he cares. When our H's clam up when we're hurting, it makes us feel like they somehow don't care enough about our pain to speak up. I think it's more like they just don't know what to do about it. They know where it's from and they can't do anything about it.

I think the silence we get during our trigger moments is from the shame our husbands feel. It isn't that they don't care. Sometimes the best they can do is to ask, "Are you OK?" and that helps some. At least we know their hearts are with us at the time.

I've decided I am going to tell my husband that if he thinks I am triggering to just say, "You seem down/upset. What can I do to help you feel better?" (or some version thereof)

The emotional side of me says, "Well...then I know he's only asking because I told him to." LOL

The practical side of me says, "YES...but he IS asking, and doing exactly what I told him will make me feel better!"

Anyway, I think that just his reaching out will improve things vastly - instead of both of us feeling bad because of past things that can't be changed. Because, as I said, I think it's about knowing he cares that I'm triggering as much as it is the trigger.

We have to find some way to short-circuit the trigger and not let it consume us. If our husbands can take the step to offer assistance, we can ask for the hug or whatever else might help.

not allowed by our country. don't you think i would have done such a simple thing if at all possible? :-D i admit i did think of destroying the darn thing, but felt dealing with the issue like an adult rather than tantrum-ing like a spoilt child was the better option, as it's far better to deal with trigger than avoid it and never deal, possibly to be knocked flat by similar trigger later on. runs right back to open and honest communication. and the constant "learning to cope" really does get you there in the end. as sunnyd, i think, said above, that's what gets you from anxiety to sucks to "eh." (road, women are wordy, ya know?)

i think that it is helpful to have a, mmmm ... what are they called, safe word/phrase? you needn't bring out the "good grief, i thought of your stupid affair *again* today and now i need you to prove you love me, *again*!" too often women expect their men to read their minds/know how we feel. we need to be clear about our needs, and a simple, "i need you now," with a pre-determined action to go w/it would be a big help. action begets feeling, right?

spea, do you think you still have some resentment? or that your en isn't being met? it's good to consider, and really analyse. if something bugs me enough, i'll approach fwh with it during a safe moment (ie: not as he's out the door to work). often when we go upstairs after dinner is a good time, because he's rested, fed, and open to in-depth communication then. pardon my ignorance, but were you lucky enough to find MB immediately? have you been using MB the whole time since discovery of a?

Armymama: Couldn't get the "resentment" radio segments to play. (Anyone know if you have to have a different login other than the one used for this forum? Or is it because I'm running Windows 7? I'll try on my iPad shortly.) But I did read the full thread, and it has good information, of course.

I do believe my FWH has made "just compensation." Ended the affair immediately, implemented EPs, radical honesty, UA time galore. Our marriage is stronger now. No doubt about that.

But I'll say it: To me, it's impossible to erase A-L-L the pain associated with his affair. At least at this point in our recovery and despite how hard we've worked and how much we love each other. And if I'm being totally honest, now sometimes, I will have a deep burst of ANGER when I allow myself to think about FWH ACTUALLY sleep with POSOW. This doesn't happen often. But it has crept into my mind of late. Before and after the "city" trigger. Perhaps I'm entering another stage of recovery.

Again, none of this happens with regularity, and none of it leads to AO. And of course it's 1,000 times better than DDay, and I know it will continue to improve with time and our commitment.

I'm just struggling. Wondering if it's normal. Wondering if I should/can be doing more.

Sunny: It's like the elephant in the room. We both know I'm triggered (I'm NEVER silent, otherwise! LOL!), and he'll do as he's required. But yes, perhaps it's that I haven't be specific enough on what I need from him at that moment. (See below)

Cali: I believe you are exactly right about equating the mentioning of triggers with mentioning the affair. And I love Letty's idea for a "safe word," which coincidentally, my FWH and I talked about last week, even before I saw your post. We decided to use the word "pancake." "Pancake" will mean, FWH has to stop, really look at me, ask if he can hug me, and hug me until I say I'm feeling better. That should help me feel better -- that kind of sincere, intentional holding of me.

So, what are your thoughts on using a word to denote greater need for reassurance/etc. Am I just replacing the word "trigger" with "pancake" and it will still violate the MB rule of not mentioning the affair?

I have problems with Windows 7 all the time. Try Firefox if you can ...

But I'll say it: To me, it's impossible to erase A-L-L the pain associated with his affair. At least at this point in our recovery and despite how hard we've worked and how much we love each other. And if I'm being totally honest, now sometimes, I will have a deep burst of ANGER when I allow myself to think about FWH ACTUALLY sleep with POSOW. This doesn't happen often. But it has crept into my mind of late. Before and after the "city" trigger. Perhaps I'm entering another stage of recovery.

Again, none of this happens with regularity, and none of it leads to AO. And of course it's 1,000 times better than DDay, and I know it will continue to improve with time and our commitment.

I'm just struggling. Wondering if it's normal. Wondering if I should/can be doing more.

You are certainly normal! I have definitely had these moments, even when things are going well. It's part of the grieving process, in my opinion. It occurs at different times for different people in different circumstances, of course - but - it does seem to surge at different points in recovery.

definitely normal! c'mon, the person you love most in the world cannot rip your heart out, worse than (as i've seen in another post) losing a spouse, limb, or child, and you just pack it all up in the "well, we've done all the steps so i just need to be over it" box. although i understand men are much better at this than us women. just know that it will indeed get better each time, and after a few years it'll be ok. not perfect, but totally doable. time is indeed a great healer. i thought that was a load of horse puckie 4 years ago, but have changed my tune!

sunny said that not talking about "it" is better. one thing i've learned, and i've thought it to myself many times over the last several years, is that perhaps they had a point in the old days when they kept everything bottled in! the less you talk about it (the a), the better (after full disclosure that is). but that doesn't mean if you have a really, really bad day you can't ask your partner for support. that's what they are for. and, after all, i think there's merit in your partner knowing exactly how much damage they've created, and how it ripples and doesn't just disappear. it takes time and work to do to that. not beat them over the head with the a, but make them aware of your struggle. in a way, our struggle illustrates how much we really love them. i can't imagine anyone would work so hard after such pain otherwise.

Sunny, Letty:

Glad to know that these feelings are normal. And I agree that it will continue to get better. I hope, some day, to never have to THINK about affair, but instead really just experience the positives (LB deposits, UA time, EPs, EN meeting) of MB. That make sense?

I'll let you know how the "safe word" concept works.

Cheers!

Sweatpea,

In answer to an email, Dr. Harley talked about this topic on the radio show yesterday. To paraphrase, he said that if FWS could tell something was wrong with BS, it was fine for BS to say he/she had been thinking about the A. Dr. Harley also said to figure out what was the PRESENT trigger and find a way to avoid it. If you are interested in hearing exactly what he said, it was near the end of Feb 22 radio show. I hope I correctly captured what he said

AM

Army: That makes sense. In the context of the incident, it was being in the town where they met to be together. I couldn't shake the anger and disgust, though I held it all in internally.

We rarely go to this city, because it's five hours away. But it's where I used to live before getting married, so I have many, many friends there. We will likely be there a couple of times per year for a joint project we're working on, so I'm either going to have to work my way through the trigger, or suffer the consequences of the trigger. Hmmmm. I guess the MB advice would be to AVOID this city at all costs. I'll have to talk it over with FWH to see if that's possible, given our project.

Thanks, AM!

Maybe if you visit there a couple of times it will actually dull the trigger, SP. Just a thought. You know - flooding and all.

Hi Sweetpea!

I always "tune in" to this thread when I do get back to the bboard to see how things are going with you. As an added bonus, I always find some gems in here that help me, so keep posting and keep us posted! (AM - I am going to put Feb 22 MB radio on my MP3 player right now... I've listened a lot lately, but may have missed that one. Thank you!)

How are you dealing with the triggers? What has worked and what hasn't? Are you able to not go to "trigger town" again, or found a way to deal with it?

I'm personally triggering a lot right now. It's been months since I seethed when WH picked up his b*tchberry, but I even did that the other day. I thought that was flooded out of me since it's literally attached to his hip, but for some reason even that has become a trigger again.

I am hoping to bring up the A this weekend again to try to figure this out, so reading AM's post helped me too. The resentment and anger has raised it's ugly head again here and I need to find a way to deal with it - or better yet, have him help me deal with it in a productive and protective way.

But the path to that is really tricky. How do I approach it? When is a good time? Do I start right at the beginning of our full day of UA on Saturday and risk sending both of us into a funk for the entire day or more as has happened in the past at times when I bring up the A? I know we should know how to do this by now, but I still find there are times where we really aren't hearing what the other is saying and the more we talk the more frustrated we get with one another. Does that make sense?

I feel sometimes like this narrow path of recovery is one of those highways where if you deviate one little bit you might be driving right over a cliff and into the ocean. Other times it's a highway out in the midwest with cornfields on either side and you can happily just plod along and little bumps in the road don't seem to make much of a difference. I feel like bringing up the A, or that I've been thinking about the A, is a deviation. I'm just hoping that this weekend we are in the midwest and not on the Pacific Coast Highway!

Let us know when you return to the board (I know you take extended breaks for the same reasons I do), how you dealt with this and how it all went. We learn so much from each other on this board. And I wanted to know that I'm learning a lot vicariously through you!

Hugs,
pAp

H is addicted to porn. He has worked with his therapist to stop, but continues to look on occasion. He calls these incidents "slip ups."

I looked in our internet history last night after I came home from my second-shift job and found he'd clicked on two YouTube shows that feature scantily clad, buxomy and sexy, young women. They are not "porn" in the classic sense of it, but I'm sure he didn't click through to the sites because of their comic quality. He clicked because the teaser ad he saw showed a hot, young nearly naked woman.

We are talking about this tonight, but I feel defeated. I'm not sure he will kick this destructive habit.

Have you tried a 12 step program? SA? Something along those lines?

The dominant therapy for porn addiction (that I have seen out there) is...











































KNOCK IT THE CRAP OFF!



Ok... not quite that. It's called a PMO fast, 90 days without (P)orn, (M)asturbation, or (O)rgasm.


HOWEVER, looking at the last item... how does one work that "therapy" in marriage? One can't very well do that while meeting our spouse's need for SF.


Dunno. I've thought about writing Dr. Harley about it since the porn issue pops up so frequently...

Write Dr. Harley.

Dr Harley's advice is to knock it off just as HHH suggested. The reason it keeps popping up [ ] is because he has easy access to it in his home. The solution is to remove that access.

What Dr. Harley has said to do is for the porn obsessed husband to learn how to enjoy pleasing his wife sexually. That would not involve abstaining from O.

Before getting married I followed an approach that heavily emphasized forming new habits and heavily emphasized abstaining from visual sexual pleasure. i.e., not just abstaining from porn but from any other sexually titillating images or experiences. I would liken it to an alcoholic needing to not keep any drinks in the house. The book I read said to build the habit of bouncing your eyes away from anything that was sexually pleasing.