LoveMyBird, have you cleaned up your side of the road? Have you actually sent the no contact letter to your OW, giving it to your wife first for her approval? Have you apologized to her for your transgressions during your marriage? Regardless of whether you feel justified for your affair because you were separated, it was still an affair and a direct barrier to your marriage continuing. Have you in fact, and not just in word, taken responsibility for your own poor choices?

The other thing I noticed in your initial post was "I bought her a house and moved her out." What manner did you do this with? It sounds like an extraordinarily judgmental and controlling thing to do. Maybe the wording is just poor? It's one thing to leave yourself, but it sounds like you kicked your wife out for refusing to have sex without really getting at why she no longer wanted to be intimate with you.

And did you bring your affair partner around your children and into your marital home?

Thanks everyone for your time in replying.

JV. I have expressed my regret to my wife for dating the OW and told her I was very wrong to do what I've done. I told her I will be writing her a NC letter as soon as I get back from holidays. Time got the better of me today and he OW is also away over the holidays (separate countries).

Everyone is absolutely right in that me seeing the OW is a barrier to any hope of our marriage continuing. At the time I started dating her, I honestly believed my marriage was finished for good but since I found this site, I have renewed hope.

Before I bought the house for my wife, she was looking for rental properties nearby and wasn't having any luck securing one since there is a rental shortage here. She didn't want anything to do with me at the time and I was broken hearted. I bought a house and she is paying well below market rent. I did this also as security for me that she can't take my son away from me. She did hint at moving back to where her parents are which is an hour and a half away. I didn't like that thought and I told her if she did that I would contest for full custody of our son.

So, no, I did not kick her out because she wouldn't give me sex, it was her choice to move out, not mine. That being said, if I felt that one of my most important EN's was deliberately not being met despite my best efforts to fulfill all of my wife's, I would consider that reasonable grounds to make a stand for myself.

All hail LMB!

Seriously, she wanted to move out, you bought a house, and she's paying you RENT!!

Not only does this give you LB deposits, as you are cutting her a deal on the $$$, but it also gives you comfort as to the children's condition, and access to her living area, for additional "snooping" initiatives!

Well played, Sir!

As for the topic of identifying the OM....your W seems totally hellbent on keeping that information to herself, correct? She's also wanting you to keep any hint of good relations between the two of you to yourself?
I'd be looking at mutual friends...it sounds like it could be someone you already know. Maybe not, but it's somewhere to start.
This was the case in my situation....I could get most any info I wanted except his identity...turned out to be a very good friend (HA!) and that was why she refused that information.

You own the house she is currently living in, correct? And she is paying you rent, correct? As the owner and landlord you have a key and access to the property, correct?

Wait till she's gone and slap a keylogger on her computer.

Most people dont get up one morning and go out scouring the streets for an affair partner. It would have to be someone she spent TIME with. Over time he will have built up lovebank deposits and she will have started having feelings for him after a bit. There are three options

1) If it was RL time then it will pretty easy to figure out.

2)Its an old flame or someone she had a pre-existing lovebank for.

4)If she was secretly spending time online with someone, bitbucket's suggestion re the keylogger should snoop that out for you. Actually that suggestion should do the job full stop.

Unfortunately, although I am her landlord I don't have a key so I don't have access.

I'd considered the possibility of mutual friends, but the forum where it all started, I can't see anyone I know being on there. The fact that when I exposed the affair on there and she found out very quickly, despite the act it was removed by moderators within minutes, tells me that it could possibly be one of the moderators who may have been helpful with any questions she may have had.

I also have my doubts as to whether or not they have even met in person. After we had been separated for 4-5 months, I asked her if she had started dating and she told me that there was a guy from this forum that she was talking to but she was very upset that he wouldn't come to meet her. The NC letter that she originally wrote stated how upset she was that he wouldn't come to meet her. That situation may have changed now, I don't know.

As for making LB deposits by giving her security of a home or fixing her car or mowing her lawn (which I have done also). To be honest, I think she just takes it for granted. I think if I didn't do it though, I would be making LB withdrawals. Maybe after I get back from my holiday, I might offer to do a yard tidy up and mow her lawn again. She does neglect any work that may cause her to sweat.

Thanks again all, for your time replying. It's comforting to be in a place where people understand the hurt of betrayal. I will be away for 5 days now, but will be checking in when I can.

All waywards act as if the world owes them a living and both their spouse and OP absolutley OWE them needs. Not unusual. Youre setting her up so she misses 'everything you do' in Plan B. Get her used to the high life.

I totally agree with Indie. Many things I gave to my WH before D-Day such as great admiration, constant affection, and unlimited SF, and then stopped giving him after D-Day, he now recognizes as some of his most important needs and gravely misses them. They were always filled so he didn't really even realize that until they were gone. She is taking those things for granted but that will make PB very very effective.

Well I've had an interesting couple of days. Thursday night when she rang me, she was talking about how she smelled male deodorant and there was an empty packet that was on the floor that she swore was on a bench. She was telling me that she thought a male was in the house and she was worried. Turns out, she is paranoid that I might have come in snooping on her.

Also today, I had taken a few pics of our son and I told her I would email them later. She told me she cancelled her old email. My first thought was that she might be trying to do the right thing as I know this was one way the OM had made contact with her. But the next sentence she says she closed it because she got emails that her account had been compromised (probably when I tried to get in). Of course, she didn't offer me a new email to send pics to.

Another thing. She has been struggling financially an couldn't afford much for Easter so I gave her some money in return for her doing some cleaning for me. Helps us both out. I mentioned to her tonight that maybe we could do a trade and I can do her lawns etc. In return for cleaning or cooking. She is happy to do the cleaning but refused to let me help her out with yard maintenance. The only thing I can think of is that the OM may visit there and know that I have done it for her. In the past she would let me do it for her without a problem. I was hopeful that it was only an EA but I'm starting to fear it may have developed further and she has no plans of ending it at this stage.

Any thoughts?

I was hopeful that it was only an EA but I'm starting to fear it may have developed further

Let me put your FEARS to rest: It has gone further!

Infidelity Algebra 101: EA + Time + Opportunity = PA

Research here has revealed just TWO cases in which a moved-out WW was ever brought back to the marriage. Right now, your understanding about her below-market rent is supporting her ability to go heels-up for POSOM. Think about that!

You won't kill her affair by effectively subsidizing it!

If doing the yard work upsets him (I think you're right on the money, there) for heavens sake DO IT and cause trouble in the affair!

Even just once.

Do a great job, as a surprise for her. I'd get some fairy lights decked up too, and leave her some flowers on the patio furniture.

If the stars align right he might discover it at the same time as she does.

Even if he doesn't, it can't help but make lovebank deposits with her.

You know she wants you to do it, shes only concerned it will stop his lb deposits.

Shell get pretty mad. Waywards don't like being reminded of their real feelings for someone they don't have to hide. Makes them feel stupid.

Just give her a smile and a wink, tell her she looks great today and walk off.

Thanks for the painful stats NG. Hopefully I can make it a third
wife to come back. I know that I have WAY more to offer than POSOM. She had dreams of owning a nice rural property with a horse or two to ride. I can provide that. Apparently he works in a bottle shop so I would imagine his earning capacity is very low. I co-run our family business with 30+ employees so I can provide anything she could ever need financially and she would be destined to financial ruin with him. I know he doesn't provide any financial help to her at all because she is always crying over how tough she is doing it.

She rang me late last night wanting to talk about god. Now we typically don't attend church or preach so I found it odd that she would bring this up. She says she believes god has a plan for her. I didn't know what to say at the time but I did mention that she had broken a couple of the ten commandments. She wants to start attending church in the hope of finding her way in the world. Don't really know what to make of this.

I'm still hoping that the A hasn't been physical. More from an honesty perspective than anything. I could forgive a PA with full honesty, but not with all the lies when she looks me in the eye. I still have my doubts because her daughter is good friends with mine and I know she wouldn't risk having her daughter find out because she would probably tell my daughter. The only time I think she would really have a chance to be with him would be during work hours. I know I read all the other stories where others have been hopeful of not finding a PA only to be crushed later. I am prepared for the worst though.

I think I might have to get my daughter helping me and getting close to my wife again. I know she misses their friendship and my wife was actually hopeful that she would live with her instead of me. She may be able to get inside info on any possible contact from her daughter.

An interesting few days since I last posted.

While we were away, I spoke with my wife at least a couple of times each day and she gave me a new email address to send pics to, which I did frequently. It snowed while we were there and our son had never seen snow so it was great to show her those photos of how much fun he was having in the snow. The email address she gave contains my last name. Not sure if that's a positive sign or just an indication she has a second secret email now that I can't attempt to hack into. Probably the latter.

At one point over the weekend I thought she was actually going to come down with us. I invited her and offered to pay her way here, but after some hesitation she declined, saying that she would feel unconfortable around my daughter and friend who was with us because they both know of her EA.

Two days ago though, I was a bit upset that every time we spoke, she never mentioned that she missed me, only our son. I sent her a message saying I knew she didn't have feelings for me anymore and told her that I didn't want to talk to her for at least a few weeks to let my broken heart heal and get over her. She then called me and said she does miss me and even called me her babe while crying. We came home yesterday and after greeting our son she gave me a big hug and told me she missed me too and still cares about me. After she went home I called to say goodnight to our son (I never miss a night saying goodnight to him when he's not here). After I said goodnight, I then spoke with my wife about our holiday for about an hour and a half. I told her I want to take our son on an outing with us to see some caves on the weekend that are a popular tourist attraction not far away. I invited her to join us as a family and she was quite interested, not a definite yes but I think she will come with us.

Also, because it was easter and she is struggling for cash, I offered to give her some money in return for some housework. I gave her a key and she did a wonderful job and even prepared a meal for us for when we got home. It was good to have a taste of her cooking once more.

I felt she almost cracked and and told me last time I asked for his identity. I think things are crumbling for them now.

So overall, I think there are a lot of positives happening but I am still certain that the affair isn't completely dead just yet.

What are everone's thoughts? Anything I should be doing that I'm missing. IG suggested I mow her lawn, send flowers etc. which I will hopefully find time for. She also needs some bookshelves, So I might surprise her with this too.

It just sounds a whole lot like you are 'hoping she will come around'

You do realise she is like a drunk right now and has no control?

Make trouble in the affair, and snoop for exposure and EXPECT lies and craziness.

Plan A has no expectations

You're right IG. I have been kind of hoping she will come around to her senses.

Her mood changes each day. One day she is nice and reaches out for hugs and then the next she will tell me not to pressure her if I act loving towards her. How should I be acting towards her? Should I be giving her as much attention as I can and compliment her all the time? Should I be reading her mood and act accordingly?

One problem she keeps referring to is that "the spark is gone" and "how can we ever get that back". Now, I know this is wayward speak, but what should I be telling her when she says these things. I've been telling her that I believe we can get that back but her response is generally "I don't know if I can ever feel that way for you again". It's hard for these statements not to hurt, as I have never lost that feeling for my wife. What would the correct response be to these statements?

You tell her that you are trying to save your marriage.

YES. Hand it out like bait. The more you dish out, the better.


Nooooo. You drive the recovery bus, the drunk in the back doesn't get a say. When she pulls away she is either thinking of OM or the guilt is bothering her. If the former - well, don't give her space to do that and if the latter - help that guilt along! Her guilt is your friend.

Don't force yourself on her, but don't let her cow you either. Remember just saying that you are willing to meet a need is meeting a need. For example if she says: 'It's too much attention, you're suffocating me', shrug and shamelessly push in an admiration coin by saying: 'Of course I'm attentive. You're gorgeous and I'm crazy about you'

If she insists you go or she leave just say 'shame, I was planning on making you dinner by candlelight (or something else the real her would love) if she doesn't take you up on the offer out of guilt, she will still feel she missed out cause she's a greedy cake eater.



Drunken ramblings. Learn how to reverse fog speak. This basically means just flipping the negatives into positives, or putting the blame on her affair where it belongs: 'my spark for you is alive and well' 'yes, affairs are very destructive to marriages. Good thing I'm so crazy about you'

The other way to reverse fog speak is to just ignore the nonsense. Tilt your head, listen intently (play yourself a tune) then respond: did you know if you shave a polar bear its BLACK? Isn't that crazy? Or 'hmm interesting. What do want for dinner?' or 'how would you define a well lived life?'

Yes it does hurt. Perfectly acceptable to say so from time to time. Just say 'You do realise I won't be here to be pushed away forever? This is a limited offer. You only have so long to offer me a romantic marriage that appeals to me'.

Standing up for yourself is sexy. Particulary to women. Even waywards.

Plan A is about being the type of spouse 'any reasonable person would want' Asking to be loved and respected is reasonable.

Don't let her drunken sulkiness scare ya.

Thanks so much IG. I think I'll re-read that post several times to get it to sink in.

It's funny that you mention standing up for yourself is sexy, because it seems every time I stand up for myself and tell her I won't be treated like this and that I've had enough, she will cry and tell me she's not giving up and still has hope for us.

To be honest, I don't think I'll be able to continue plan A for too long, it just hurts so much to offer everything I've got and get nothing in return but coldness.

Another thing. I know it is recommended to tell even young children about affiars. How do I approach this? I have tried to tell our son but my wife has convinced him that OM was just "a friend". I ask him all the time if he wishes that mummy and daddy were together and he always says yes.

My wife still believes she is being a good parent and doing what is best for our son. She always tells him we both love him very much which is great, but she doesn't seem to realise the life lessons kids pick up. It is so obvious to me.

My parents have always been loyal and affectionate to one another. I am the only one out of their children (3) to have had a failed marriage and it wouldn't have failed if my first or second wife had've remained loyal to me. My first wifes mother betrayed her father ending their marriage and my current wifes mother betrayed her father with the same result. In both cases, the children were left with the father. In my first marriage, I also took the children. I see and understand how these behaviours are passed on through the generations through seeing the parents actions.

It would just break my heart to see my children have to endure the pain I've been through.