I wouldn't be surprised if she DOES know it, SF, because I strongly suspect your WH is still in contact with her.

Dear Starfish:

This will not yield a result.

If she says "yes," you will have to wonder if she is lying to advance her own agenda (e.g., you will throw him out and he will be "available"). If your H says still says "no," all you will have accomplished is to pit two liars against each other.

And, of course, he will continue/resume contact with her....

If she says "no," you will have to wonder if she is lying to advance her own agenda (e.g., keep you in the dark so their relationship can continue). If your H says, "See?" all you will have accomplished is to ally two liars with each other.

And, of course, he will continue/resume contact with her....

You cannot get truth from liars.

POLYGRAPH.

BV

How would I know this?

Recap from the last letter he sent me a week ago:

Starfish,

I want to let you know that I have not been completely honest about OW#1 over the last two years. �The day we went to lunch that you know about, that started all this, OW#1 did tell me as I was getting in my truck that she loved me. �I responded with I love you too, and you�ll get through this. �Not sure why I told her I loved her, but she was very emotional, and that was how I responded. �I do care about her, because we had a good, but strange relationship for 3 years.
When she came back into the picture it did stir up old memories. �I contacted her a lot more frequently than I even realized during the last 2 years. �I was shocked on how often it actually was. �You and I were starting to go through some rough times as OW#1 started to enter the picture again. �We were not communicating well, and we had our fertility issues going on as well. �You would go outside with wine and smokes, and do research, get on blogs, face book, whatever it was, and I�d just do my thing inside or go to our neighbor's house or whatever. �We were not ourselves, and for some reason I could not communicate with you. �I think I was afraid of making the issues you already had worse, but I�m not sure why you didn�t communicate with me. So as OW#1 was leaning on me, I started to lean on her as well. �She was someone I could at least talk too. �Not necessarily about problems, but just talk, communicate, something I couldn�t do with you.
As time went on I did have thoughts about if I had married the right person. �If OW#1 had moved to � �Florida 12 years ago, would we have been together. �I even thought about sex with her again, even though that never happened, and we never even talked about stuff like that with each other. �Those thoughts however did cross my mind. �The connection that we had lost over time seemed to be coming back.
I knew it was wrong to be doing what I was doing, but I didn�t understand why. �I thought well as long as we keep this a friendly thing then there should be nothing wrong with it, but there was something wrong. �I understand that better now. �Just letting her back in my life brought back old memories and thoughts of affairs. �If she had not come back in my life, or if I had not let her back in, then those thoughts and memories would probably not have ever come up, and I may have been able to maybe communicate with you. �She was a distraction to our marriage.
As more time went on and we were doing our Creighton model meetings, and we started to seem to come back together a little more, maybe because of a common goal of a baby and family. I did start to push back on meeting with OW#1, but that did not stop me from being in contact with her. �For some reason I could not completely push her out of my life. �I always had to have at least some way to contact her in case I felt the need to. �I was not happy about writing the letter to OW#1 that night when we sent it to her, but I did feel some sense of relief later on. �You helped me do something that I for some reason could not do on my own, and that was cut ties with OW#1. As long as she was around, I was going to feel the need to be friendly with her.
After counseling started, and we started having some really good days, it was evident to me that what I really needed was you, my wife in my life. �We had both drifted pretty far apart from each other, and it was nice to have you back in close again. �Granted during counseling we had rough days as well, but the good days were some of the best I�ve had with you in several years.
Overall I have come to terms about cutting ties with OW#1. �I have learned a lot about what is right and what is wrong in a marriage. �Should I have known these before, yes, but sometimes it takes things like this to make people understand the poison that comes from letting others cross the boundaries of a marriage. �I now realize how much poison OW#1 was to us. �I have also realized that letting any female cross boundaries is a recipe for disaster.
Starfish, I have seen us over the last couple months grow close again on days. �Close like we were when we were dating. �Where we just loved being around each other. �When we couldn�t keep our hands off each other. �I feel that we can be that couple again, and not just for a short period of time, but for the rest of our lives.

I love you,
WH

Her email address is blocked at work and his personal email. He hasn't been in contact with her by email or phone, but I can't monitor his work stuff, but he did show me that he blocked her email. I can't be sure that they aren't still talking at work.

Is he willing to take a polygraph this week to back up his story that he has not had sex with the OW and that he is not having an affair? If he has nothing to hide he should be eager to take another one to clear his name and save his marriage.

I have no doubt they didn't have sex when they were on the boat that afternoon because they are both so upstanding and moral. They would surely not do that.

Dear Starfish:

You will never be sure of anything until your H gets on board and passes his polygraph.

This is what unwritten and I meant when we said that no matter how much you tell yourself that you don't need "details," the question of openness and honesty will always haunt you.

Below, from one of my H's (Cantgetitright) early posts:

Something that I struggle with is helping out my wife when there is something that doesn't add up. An example...

I am away on business with the OW and we kiss. Additional days are spent together and the kiss is not brought up or happen again.

I get back from the trip and decide to get in the car and see if something more could happen. Driving there, I realize that pursuing this could lead to the end of my marriage so I don't continue on.

My wife at that time (and subsequent times) says that my story (I put on a number of miles looking for a fast food place in addition to running errands) doesn't add up.

I eventually decide to come clean and tell her that I was on my way to her house but had second thoughts.

Initially, she is relieved because all along she suspected that my story was bs and that I did go to her house to sleep with her.

As time goes by and she thinks how the EA continued with the phone calls (and my denials of the phone calls/deleting them from my cell phone) and how upset/sick she would get with asking me to stop and me not stopping - that my story must not be true.
That what I finally said, although it makes sense, just doesn't add up. That it is telling her a plausible story that still is not the truth.

How do we deal with this? It is something that will lead to long conversations where the events get replayed and she is still upset/confused/angry and not sure if what I said is true.

My lying about the event for a long time before finally telling the truth and of course subsequent events where I am caught in a lie - can't bring an end to this and is a cause of great pain.

Is the only solution, continued openness and honesty on my part or is there something else?

Really could use some input.

And, one of his posts after I demanded a polygraph (Check my signature line for what I found out at this time, and know that for privacy I only list SOME of what I found out:

Continuing with my timeline discussion with my wife...

My wife has always said that I am guilty of trickle truth. I agree with that statement if it was only referencing the past few years, but as I looked at my timeline and thought about everything that has happened I would say that I engaged in no truth or cover your [censored] truth the rest of the time.

No truth - don't think she will ever find out, so never bring it up.

Cover your [censored] truth - when confronted, cover your [censored] by making up a story that sounds semi-reasonable.

Also, the reason for the timeline was due to my wife saying that to stay in this marriage I would have to take a polygraph test. So rather then leaving my marriage up to this, I decided to do the timeline and come clean with all of the sh** that I put her through, lied about or didn't tell her about all these years.

As I sat there and told her some of these details, I could see the shock and disgust on her face. I could see the life, the energy get taken away from her.

After every weekend together, she updates my phone with a picture. This week, she put a picture of the word TRUTH that was on a billboard with the sun shining through it.

I interpret this as the truth shall set you free - unfortunately, the truth will set her free. Free from having to live with a liar, a coward and a person that she probably can't forgive.

I can't blame her for that. I'm ashamed, embarrassed by the way that I have treated her. I am ashamed that it took the threat of a polygraph test to finally come clean.

I don't know if there is a chance at recovery. I don't know if she will ever trust me again. I don't know how this marriage can continue.

I know the timeline, disclosure was necessary, but looking back - she had asked me for this numerous times and I couldn't do it.

Now more than ever, I could use some advice as to what I could possibly do to salvage this marriage.

During the time he wrote post #1, he was EXACTLY like your husband.

And it does not matter if your H's affairs have ended; if you don't resolve this issue, there WILL be another affair, if not with OW #1 or #2, with an OW #3.

POLYGRAPH.

BV

That letter is proof that he is still lying, SF.

If you understand the lovebank model, then you understand that she made massive LB$ deposits over 6 years, never mind that there was already a huge LB$ to begin since they were previous lovers and that he did indeed love her. ie, (from your very first post on this thread):

If he had completely ended & closed the door on any future communications with OW1, then I don't understand why he wouldn't just fess up. To me this is a huge red flag that telling you "everything" will make it impossible for him to continue that relationship with her. He hasn't given her up yet, SF. He is addicted to her which is no surprise since she has been meeting his ENs for six years.

The only way you will know he has decided to completely give up his SSL and become radically honest is when he tells you (1) the truth about his PA with OW1 and (2) can pass a poly.

So, what should I say to him?

Dear Starfish:

If you're looking for technical advice, lots of people can help you.

If, though, you're looking for the "right" or "magic" words that will cause your H to see the light, tell you the truth and begin anew with you - well, there aren't any.

Only he can decide that this is the right thing to do.

You cannot compel him (believe me - been there, done that, have the t-shirt, the souvenir water bottle, the glow-in-the-dark necklace, etc., etc.).

You can, however, protect yourself from settling or a false recovery.

Say what MelodyLane told you to say a few pages ago: you came to your senses, know what you want and will not change your mind again.

Then, it's up to him.

If he decides he doesn't want to be open and honest, then YOU DON'T WANT HIM.

Back to Plan B; ride out the extinction burst that will follow, and then, see what happens.

What happens after your notification is up to him. Your response will protect you, or make you vulnerable to a lifetime of doubt, suspicion and insecurity.

No polygraph, Plan B.

BV

Starfish --

Have you had any contact with OW's husband?
I know that they are supposedly divorced or getting divorced, but I think it would be a really good idea for you to compare notes with him.

You may discover that they are divorcing because of the affair she's with your husband.
Or you may discover that the "divorce" that she needed consoling over was all a lie and that her husband is clueless.
Or you may discover that he's aware of it, and he may have cell phone records that show your husband is still calling her everyday.

Since the truth isn't coming out on your side of things, check the other side...

Take melodylanes advice to the letter. Either he agrees to take a poly or you need to get back in Plan B.

Contacting the OW is pointless as she was not honest with you last time (about the ILYs) yet her story matched his exactly. It matched because their contact continues and they are careful to ensure their stories match.

Get the poly or protect yourself from the pain of further trickle truth.

Yes withdrawal is hard but someone of your strength CAN do it and ensure they get what they deserve.

Yes, I've had contact with him and he believes it was only an EA. He is a Sgt. for the Sheriff's Dept. and has interrogated her. He said his lie detector/BS detector is very good and he believes that there was not a PA. Says his wife cares for my H as a friend and that is it. She tells everyone that she loves them and maybe WH took it the wrong way dealing with our infertility problems that he couldn't talk to me about and was leaning on her for support. Maybe he was reading too much into things...

His ex-wife caused a lot of problems in their marriage and he said that is ultimately the reason for their separation. His ex tried to get his W fired from her job. She also works for the Sheriff's office.

I texted him to see if he has access to her cell phone records and he called me. Said he doesn't, but did check her cell phone and records for the past 3 years and he said that everything between his W and my H was strictly platonic. Only texts around holidays... Happy Thanksgiving... You too, etc. Said there was a football game that they texted about the score (rivalry teams) and that was it. He has been with the sheriff's dept. for 23 years and just said there wasn't anything there from what he could tell from reading their texts. Said very few phone calls, etc.

He also mentioned that she has a difficult time with disconnecting from anyone in her life. It's just her personality and he isn't that way, but he is trying to understand why she feels so compelled to stay in touch with everyone. He said they are in the process of working on their marriage and she did mention to him that I called her. He already knew, but played dumb. She told him that WH and I were having some problems and she respected that I wanted no contact and she could deal with that and respected my wishes. She is also planning a trip to England soon to visit an old bf/now friend and his wife for a week. He said this is just the way she is... Wanting to remain friends and that's it.

Yikes, I feel for my countrywoman who prob has no idea a homewrecker is on the way.

Didn't this sgt also say their stories sounded rehearsed? As he is divorcing her anyway he prob just has no desire to probe further. Its pretty obvious, and should be obvious to someone with his experience, that something happened on the boat that day.

He is not impartial and that's the problem. I am an investigative journalist and have an excellent BS monitor myself...yet I was taken in for two years by very poor WH/OW lies. Because I wanted to believe.

He 'doesn't understand' why she needs to keep old boyfriends on the backburner because she has never explained it to him.

WWs don't explain that sort of thing to a BH.

No, they are not divorcing quite yet... He said she is wanting to work on their marriage. He commented on their stories and said they are the same, because they probably are and that's what happened. He is used to getting both sides of story and most of the time they are the same because it's the truth.

I really can't take the "what if" mind games anymore. If they did or didn't have sex, I really don't care anymore. An affair is an affair either way you look at it. EA or PA is just as painful. WH is showing that he is remorseful and I told him today that I want the truth.
I'm going to be honest and say that if I did 1/2 the things he has done, I wouldn't have admitted to all of the details that he has. I didn't really need to know all the details and wish I didn't know them. I would never have an affair, but if I did, I wouldn't have shared all the details that WH has revealed to me. I just couldn't go there...

What have you decided to do?

But it wast the truth was it? She left out her declaration of love to a married man. Your husband.

Maybe she knew she wouldn't be trusted to visit old boyfriends if she was truthful!

Who says she is in love with my husband?
She came down here to visit her mom twice a year.
My husband had two lunches with her (one I knew about and was invited to, but refused). The other lunch was with OW, her sister and kids (verified) and the other time she wanted to have lunch to talk and WH had already made plans to go fishing, so he said he would swing by and talk to her before fishing. I am believing this to be true and true even more. My head is constantly being filled with doubts though from what others are saying here. I do believe it could've become a PA, but I truly don't believe that it did. I think my WH was enjoying the attention (as limited as it was) and it could've turned into a PA, but I do not believe it did. Yes, there is a reason my WH failed the polygraph, but the question was in relation to sexual contact, which also could've been due to a horrid detail that he left out with OW#2 from what the polygrapher/ex-detective told me on the phone this morning.

OK but let's look at your account:

This actually came up on my STBX's thread because he erased everything, claiming it was all innocent, and he was hammered for that, he was asked, why would you erase evidence that would exonerate you? Think about it. Yes, those posters were all correct because it was a PA.

Why would he have deleted the phone number and then secretly added it back on? Why a secret meeting out on the boat? This is behavior of people in an affair, SF, not innocent friends who have nothing to hide.

OW1 BH sounds like he was never suspicious of this being an affair so he never did any real super sleuthing. I noticed he doesn't mention anything about a VAR or keylogger or having seen the emails or having his WW take a poly. His reassurance really doesn't mean anything, SF.

This man has been seriously gaslit! Probably some denial mixed in there as well. She has her "space" while still probably receiving financial support as well, ie, "still working on the marriage". She has convinced him these interactions with past boyfriends is because she has trouble disconnecting? She is going to England to visit an old bf and he is defending this type of behavior?