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#2614153 04/09/12 11:09 AM
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I've been reading on these forums for awhile, finally registered and have posted a couple times. Thought it was about time to get my own story and questions on here.

Where do I begin? Don't want to TMI and also don't want to leave anything out. Me: 40 yr old WW/BW. My husband: 34 yr old WH/BH. We have been married for 12 yrs, DD10, DS8, DS4. Think I got those acronyms right! I love him immensely, but could not say our marriage has ever been good or happy. I've been trying to figure out the best way to explain interlopers without it getting confusing, and have decided on a timeline as the best option. So here goes.

1999 - Married
2000 - I went out with premarriage male friend w/ H's consent, nothing inappropriate happened
2000 - H took female work friend to work party, while I was at home on bedrest due to difficult pg. Gave her backrub. Did not confess this to me until 2009 during 'trickle truth'
2001 - I went out with same male friend, we kissed. Went NC with friend and confessed to H.
2001 - H had ONS with female coworker during business trip. The cherry on the icing of the cake of betrayal. This is the one that haunts me on a daily basis, of course. H did not tell me about this until DDay, August 2010.
2003 - H had EA with female coworker. H denied until about 6 months after it had fizzled out, after constant questioning from me about the nature of their 'friendship'
2005 - I began babysitting for male church member. EA developed and he eventually confessed to having feelings for me. I went NC with him and confessed to H.
2005 - H had EA with friend from HS, this included phone sex and sexual photos exchanged. H did not tell me about this until 2010 during 'trickle truth' phase.
Spring 2009 - after yrs of having few needs met (financial support only) yet somehow managing to continue to love him immensely, feeling like he didn't love me and didn't want to be married to me, wondering about a million little 'things' that set off red flags regarding deception and adultery, feeling very sad and insecure...I had a little talk with God. I asked him to do SOMETHING to get me out of this rut. Thus started what I like to call the 'rebellion stage' of my life. Overnight I went from sad and insecure, to just plain PO'd. My love bank went from pretty full to almost empty, and was filled instead with anger, resentment, and frustration. I started to challenge H at every single turn, I wanted the TRUTH! About everything he had ever done. About how he felt about me. About our marriage. I wanted to either fix it or get out of it. Then started 'trickle truth' phase.
August 2009 - H told me about 2000 party backrub. Said that was IT there was nothing else to tell. I knew it was a LIE.
September 2010 - H let it slip that he had lap dance at strip bar in Vegas a couple yrs before. I didn't so much care at the time about a lap dance, I cared about the fact that he had told me during that trip he didn't go to any strip bars. So...caught him in yet another LIE. This is where whatever boundaries I had just went out the door.
September 2010 - I started an EA with H's very good friend from high school. EA was of mostly a sexual nature including phone sex and photos. Physically meeting was discussed but never acted on.
November 2010 - started online EA with friend from many years before, initiated through FB.
February 2011 - Went to neighborhood party where neighbor kissed me. I went home immediately and told H. Next day I looked in the mirror and thought, is this it? Is this who I want to be? Is this the kind of wife and mother I want to be? Is this the kind of marriage I want? Went downstairs and told H I wanted a D. He was shocked, where did that come from? At the time I just said this was not the kind of marriage I wanted. The next day I confessed about the EA with his friend and the other online EA I had also. He confessed to 2005 EA with friend from high school. Told me that was IT, everything was now out on the table and he wanted to start rebuilding. I didn't believe him.
March 2010 - Discovered MB. Made appt with Steve. I will be honest I did not get the help I was looking for. I wanted the TRUTH. I wanted everything out on the table, and I knew, my gut instinct told me, there was more. I felt like Steve and H were on a team, I was demanding the truth before I put effort into rebuilding anything, and they were both acting like I was just being stubborn and didn't really want recovery. That was the only session we had. I continued to demand the truth over the summer. Started to bring up polygraphs, if H had really told me everything he should not mind taking one. Every time I brought it up he would get very upset and clearly did NOT want to take one.
August 2010 DDAY - told H I wanted him to take a poly. He gave me all the usual reasons he didn't want to. Told him he didn't need to agree with it, just needed to agree to DO it. OR, he could take option 2 which was to just tell me the truth NOW. He confessed to the 2001 ONS. I threw up for 12 hrs straight until I was throwing up blood. Affairs are not pretty folks.
August 2010 - February 2012 - more Plan C. Didn't want to leave but didn't know how to fix things. MC here and there. State of confusion. Zombieland. I was waiting for H to initiate recovery, he was waiting for me to be swept with a memory stick, or something.
February 2010 - Told H I wanted D. Needed to move on. Could not wait for him to initiate recovery any longer, or put effort in, or care about the pain I was in. Life's too short. He begged and pleaded for one more chance to try and make this right. Initiated MC (I know most people on here warn against MC but so far he has been pretty insightful). I discovered MB forums!! Oh how grand they are, so insightful and helpful and I finally feel like I am not alone and have 'friends' who understand where I am and understand why I am still here and want to find recovery. I have gained more knowledge on recovery from these forums than in any other way ever. You people are all amazing. If I had been introduced to the "Plans" years ago my life could have been so different. Anyway, I digress.
Today - H is committed to recovery. He wants a great marriage and partnership. I also am committed to recovery. I am trying to get off my high horse of feeling like he was a liar and a cheat and I was just reacting to how mean he was...I know I am wayward too and also had very few boundaries and I have a LOT of self work to do also. Thank you MB for making me look in the mirror.

I have new questions every day it seems, but my primary one is, how do you REALLY get beyond the resentment? I have had many, many things to be resentful of from the way in which I was treated in this marriage (not good) all the way to the PA ( and I have to say that after having many EA's and other situations involved in our marriage, the PA for me is much much worse or more impactful than any of the EA's, maybe this is because my #2 EA is SF???). As much as I want to and try to move forward, that little devil of resentment just won't let UP.

Thanks for listening and sorting through this really messed up marriage. It disturbs me to see what it looks like on paper.

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Before you know it the pros at recovery will be here soon to help you. Have you gotten the SAA and His needs Her needs books?

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Unwritten,

I recommend reading "Surviving an Affair" as a start. Also, you said you counseled with Steve. Are you enrolled in the online program or working the at home program? It seems as if you need a consistent, specific plan for recovery. Do you have extraordinary preccautions in place? Do you spend at least 20 hours a weel in meeting each other's most important emotional needs?

Dr. Harley has said that if there is still resentment, then recovery is not complete and there has not been "just compensation".

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Thank you for your replys. Shortly after counseling with Steve, we purchased the home program and have randomly worked from it since then. 'Random' is the key word here, yes we are very random in recovery and need a very precise plan. I think we have only read parts of Surviving an Affair.

I have discussed EP's with him, but have never put them in writing.

Regarding the time, I think I have some confusion about this. We spend a LOT of family time together, have a lot of hobbies that include both of us or our whole family. But when we are with our kids it sure doesn't seem like undivided attention time. So does it not count? I have NO IDEA how to spend 20 hours of undivided attention time with him in a week with little kids and busy schedules. I would welcome ANY suggestions here.

We have been working to meet each others needs more. Just recently filled out our EA questionnaires and also the Love Buster questionnaire and shared it, so we would be on track with knowing what needs to fill.

I can't imagine not having resentment. I have no idea how just compensation can be made for everything that has gone on between us, but I guess that's why I'm here, so you can guide me along the way.


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My H and I started with the home study program. We upgraded to an MB weekend (what is now the on-line program), started to really work on it weekly, and used the coach frequently. The cost of the home study program was applied to the other program.

Family time does not count as UA time. The recommendation is for both 15 hours of family time and 15 or more of UA time. We did our planning on Monday mornings, but Dr. Harley recommends Sunday afternoons at 3 PM. Just compensation occurs when the EPs are in place and emotional needs are being met.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Children can't be around for UA time. This is clearly stated by Dr. H in HNHN. We encounter the same problem since we have e three year old DD. We plan one night a week where we have a babysitter, we meet once a week for lunch while DD is in pre-k and spend afternoon together and then we plan one late night where we put DD to bed and play our couples game. Food For Talk.

Can you list yours and his top five EN's?


WW-30
Me BH-35
OM-1 EA/PA for 2.5 yrs
OM-2 EA/PA 3 mos
Married since Nov 2002
DDay-April 4th, 2011, DD#2-four days later
DD-3
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Originally Posted by INTERNAL_PAIN
Children can't be around for UA time. This is clearly stated by Dr. H in HNHN. We encounter the same problem since we have e three year old DD. We plan one night a week where we have a babysitter, we meet once a week for lunch while DD is in pre-k and spend afternoon together and then we plan one late night where we put DD to bed and play our couples game. Food For Talk.
In addition to these excellent suggestions, if you are a SAHM, look after someone else's 4 year-old for a few hours during the daytime when the big ones are at school, and meet your H for lunch.

Can you dump all three of them for an overnight once a week with either of your parents?

Can a parent or grandparent babysit once a week - starting early (say 5PM) and getting the kids to bed, so you are not going out late at night when you are exhausted?


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My kids are 22 and 15 now, but when they were little I found it very easy to arrange play dates. It is so much easier to let two four year-olds play together while the parent gets on with something or simply has peace and quiet. My friends and I used to queue up to look after someone else's child, and repay the favour.

In America, apparently, you can get free childcare while you work out at the gym. You and your H need to go early evening and spend a couple of hours helping each other with exercise and talking while you do it, while the kids are looked after. Recreational companionship and UA time combined with creating an attractive spouse! Win win win!

Sadly, I haven't come across the free childcare here in the UK.


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Thank you to everyone for your responses, I made notes to try and answer everything.

I am confused about time. I have read 1) 20 hrs/wk meeting EA's 2) 15 hrs/wk family time and 3) 15 hrs/wk UA time. Is the 20 hr's of meeting EA's the same as the UA time? Or can I use things like cleaning (domestic support) for that? Also we do work out together, in the am before kids are up or pm when kids are in bed, at home. Does that count as UA time?

Weekly lunch date is a great idea. We have tried this in the past but due to distance and cost it didn't work very often. H used to work 42 miles away (more like an hr drive one way) and it was spendy and time consuming to go for lunch. Now he works more like 30 miles away and it is definitely more doable. I will get this in the calender.

Weekly date nights would be great and we will work on this too. Unfortunately grandparents are all 3 hours away so we cannot rely on them for consistent date nights or overnights. We do utilize them for occasional kid free weekends though. We have never used hired babysitters for anything and will have to figure that out if we want to do date nights. It can be done.

His top 3 EN's: 1) Recreational Companionship 2) Domestic Support 3) Affection

RC: This one I am a little bitter about. H and I both have lots of hobbies we enjoy, some together and all overlap. In our early years, we had very little money and could not afford to do a lot, and we had little babies/toddlers at home to care for. I have been the Giver, to a fault, and therefore I stayed home to take care of kids so he could still enjoy his hobbies. We could not afford to do things together. I feel like I sacrificed so he would not have to give things up. Now, it is held against me that I did not provide recreational companionship. I would have LOVED to fill that need, it was just not an option at that time.

DS: I have and continue to fail MISERABLY at providing DS. Like crawl under a rock miserably. I love the outdoors and hate the indoors and anything that goes along with being indoors like cleaning, cleaning, and did I mention I was a SAHM? cleaning... I know I need to find a way to get better at it but it is a hard hard thing to do for me.

Affection: I have always provided lots of affection for my H, at least up until I found out about the ONS. After that for about a yr I had a very hard time showing him affection. I am slowly trying to get back to that. He actually seemed annoyed to get it the first 10 yrs, then he didn't have it for a yr and missed it terribly, now he can't seem to get enough.

My 3 top EN's: 1) Honesty/Openness (doubt that would have ranked so high before now 2) Sexual Fulfillment 3) Admiration.

H/O: never filled, not even 1% for 1 day.

SF: also never filled. SF was also used to manipulate me at times in our marriage. I'm not saying it is more difficult for a woman to have this need unmet, just that it has a different dynamic and not one that many people can relate to.

Admiration: never filled.

To do list: 1) put weekly lunch dates in the calender 2) find a babysitter 3) put weekly date nights in the calender. And if working out counts then start working out more, you are right it is a win win!


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OK not to completely change the course of our OWN recovery but I also need advice on how to handle this situation.

My BIL (H's brother) has been divorced for about 10 yrs. He has recently started dating a woman who everyone seems to like a lot. This weekend I asked about her and was told the following story: She has 3 kids about my kids ages (4,8,10). They have been 'friends' for awhile but just started dating in December. Although nobody knew when she was divorced (or if she was actually divorced yet) BIL had 'been a close confident and counseled her' through her seperation and divorce. Um, ya. But, we repeat, they did not start DATING until December. (I am guessing she either moved out or D became final shortly before that...making it OK to be officially dating...). Oh, she used to live X but very recently moved to Y (um, you mean from her FAMILY home to her D location). And although they have only been dating since December, they had each other meet parents on Christmas??? (note, these are 40 something yr old people).

Now, after hovering over the Infidelity Forums for a couple of months, this story screamed red flags of infidelity to me. Or am I just a little ULTRA sensitive to it now? If I suspect that my BIL is the OM, do I tell anyone? Do I ask him about it? Do I just keep it to myself? I would have said it was none of my business before now, but after reading all these stories of BS's trying to get help from people, I do not want to be one of those 'it's not my problem' people. Also, I really do not want to accept a WS with open arms into the family. How would you all handle this, not the usual POV on this forum.

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Should be 15-20 hours of UA time meeting each others EN's. No children present. Gym time is UA time and meets RC.


WW-30
Me BH-35
OM-1 EA/PA for 2.5 yrs
OM-2 EA/PA 3 mos
Married since Nov 2002
DDay-April 4th, 2011, DD#2-four days later
DD-3
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Thanks for the clarification IP.

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It also appears from your EN's that during your UA time spent without the kids your time should include SF, Admiration, IC, AF, and RC. Neither of you listed IC, but it is a core component of UA time.

Also, post EP's that you think should be in place so we can suggest additional/amplifications. These will be critical for you since you both went outside the marriage.

You are welcome


WW-30
Me BH-35
OM-1 EA/PA for 2.5 yrs
OM-2 EA/PA 3 mos
Married since Nov 2002
DDay-April 4th, 2011, DD#2-four days later
DD-3
Working on recovery
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Not sure what IC is.....


Intelligent Conversation??

laugh






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Intimate conversation


WW-30
Me BH-35
OM-1 EA/PA for 2.5 yrs
OM-2 EA/PA 3 mos
Married since Nov 2002
DDay-April 4th, 2011, DD#2-four days later
DD-3
Working on recovery
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Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
Not sure what IC is.....


Intelligent Conversation??

laugh
Well, that's me out...


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SMB said it's Intimate Conversation....


I guess that's what females have??

Men have the other.... grin

Last edited by HerPapaBear; 04/09/12 06:22 PM.




Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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You'd better run and hide, HPB...


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You said it, not me


WW-30
Me BH-35
OM-1 EA/PA for 2.5 yrs
OM-2 EA/PA 3 mos
Married since Nov 2002
DDay-April 4th, 2011, DD#2-four days later
DD-3
Working on recovery
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Originally Posted by SugarCane
You'd better run and hide, HPB...


ROTFLMAO.....





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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