So he overheard the calls? Was he taping them?

You have insisted on a poly?

I hope he gives you the truth he needs.

What will you do if he refuses to take a poly again?

Do you want to call him? I already had a 30 minute conversation with him tonight. IT WAS AN AFFAIR! I don't give a crap what they did or didn't talk about! He betrayed our vows and had affairs!!! I don't give a crap what they talked about...

What is your point? I already stated that I don't want anymore details! Phone conversations are details and there were very few phone calls!

I hope he gives me the truth I need too... Thank you!!!

I spoke about the poly again today, but also taking into consideration what the polygrapher said today that it could've been a detail that he left out. Not sure I want all the details... I don't want to picture those in my mind and wish I could erase the ones that I do have already!

The vets here will want to help you formulate a watertight recovery plan so you don't have a FR.

How he contacts her is important. I assume you will want him to block his methods of contacting her. So you need to know what they are.

MLs questions are out of concern you do not have a FR.



None of us want the details but you need them. You need to know how the burglar got in to make a new security system that WORKS.

When he starts to heal you properly, when nothing is too much effort, then you will start to forget.

Either that or Plan B will heal you.

At the height of my worries I suggested me and WH go to a romantic hotel i really liked.

He took OW.

I had a lot of visuals about that. But now I don't anymore.

Have faith!

Thank you Indie! Of course I don't want a FR. I also don't want all of the details and this is my choice. I heard Dr. H mention that it up to the person that is betrayed on how much of the details they are wanting. I did want to know EVERYTHING at first and now I don't.

The visuals would suck and the visuals that I already do have are painful... I wouldn't be able to deal with anymore details.

I realize people are concerned about a FR and I'm a little on the defense tonight with all of the what if this/that ?'s. I'm tired, I'm emotionally drained and still not eating well. I almost felt the need to take a Xanax after all the comments, questions and unknown accusations here the past hour!

starfish, Mel is not the enemy here, OK? Evil has invaded your M and she is trying to help you. She has been here for a long time and knows what she is talking about. She KNEW my STBX was lying to me right away. Her bullchit detector is invaluable.

You are LUCKY that she is posting to you...

I understand, but I felt bombarded with how do you know this and how do you know that type of questions, when I already posted the answers. Granted my thread has quite a few pages now... I have stated that I don't want the small details and I'm feeling pressure here to know EVERYTHING and I do not want to know everything!!! I want the BIG facts and that is it! If I decide to question WH further, when I'm ready, so be it. I'm just not ready for all of that right now. Many here haven't even asked or put there hand down in forcing a polygraph. I did! Yes, he failed... we all know that! I spoke with a polygrapher today that gave me more insight as to why he could've failed.

I was feeling totally ganged up on here tonight, while looking for and needing support. Instead I felt like I was being torn to shreds. I always appreciate any advice and support I receive here, which is why I keep coming back. There are lots of similarities with affairs, but there are also differences, just as no two marriages are the same. Everyone has a unique situation. Some things apply and some don't, just as some have asked for polygraphs and some have not. Some marriages recover and some do not. There are no guarantees on anything in life.

Dear Starfish:

Okay, you don't want the details - there's a rational argument behind that point. It is indeed your choice.

However, what you do want - what you MUST have - is openness and honesty.

Without a passed poly, you have no idea if your husband is choosing to be honest with you, or choosing to sweep it all under the carpet.

And even if both affairs are over, and OW #1 was indeed an EA only, WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT TIME? And there WILL be a next time, in a week, a month, a couple of years....

Your husband will never have learned to be honest with you and you will be back in the same boat you're in.

Honest people pass polys; dishonest people fail them.

If something doesn't make sense, IT IS A LIE.

Have him take a poly and pass. You know the limitations of the questions; a passed poly won't inflict pages of graphic details on you.

Go forward knowing that your husband has been honest with you.

B ("been there") V

P.S. I think in the future, at some point, you WILL want answers to questions. If you wait too long, the answer is going to be, "I don't remember." After your husband passes his polygraph, have him write out a timeline NOW, while he still remembers. Put it away in a safe deposit box, have him hid it in the attic, anything.

If you never look at it, that's certainly your choice.

If, though, in the future, you need an answer to a question, you will have it. And it will give you peace of mind. "I don't remember" will not.

BV

Starfish,

Most times, when someone here feels ganged up on here - me included, it is because people are saying something that is true and correct, but contrary to what they/I wanted to believe and the actions to be taken.

You say you don't want a false recovery. Your husband is still lying, doesn't demonstrate commitment to the marriage, and has no remorse. That's what false recovery looks like. I have been exactly there and it was ten times worse than the affair itself.

Everytime someone here talks about how unique their situation, it becomes clear that is is not. There is little about most affairs and affair-related behavior that is unique. Dr. Harley stresses that the path to recovering a marriage is narrow and specific. When couples take shortcuts or "bend" things around because they are unique, their chance of success is vastly diminished.

AM

Dear Starfish:

Here is where collective MB wisdom and experience can help.

I've been "here" for 6 years, I think, and I've yet to see a unique situation when it comes to affairs.

In fact, one of the great commonalities of affairs is that virtually EVERYONE believes they have a unique situation, BSs and WSs alike.

Many of us are ahead of you looking back. We see where you're heading, you don't yet.

We want a straighter and surer path for you than the one we took ourselves.

BV

The bottom line, not to make you feel attacked but to relay my impressions is that you felt horrible when you tried to implement plan B. You missed your marriage and your husband.

You prefer accepting vagueness to simply staying out of the drama if it means feeling that missing him feeling again.

If you were stronger......you could tell him "Hey. If you pass a polygraph so I know the truth about your life, we can talk. Meanwhile, love you but I am out of the mess."

The polygraph guy told you what that makes you feel at ease here?.....I am not sure we understand that part of the puzzle that you are saying fits.

Star, there's one thing I don't understand. You say you feel like you're being bombarded. You are being "bombarded" with the exact same advice you were "bombarded" with when you first came here. You listened, digested, then implemented. Almost to perfection. You, in effect, became an MB rocker!

Why are you so defensive now to the exact same advice you were so willing to receive and implement initially?

In other words, who are you and what have you done with our starfish75?

What has changed??

It was because he lied Starfish. Why are you trying to find a loophole for him?

The only thing that has changed between now and the day he failed miserably, is that you have discovered that you don't like withdrawal and now you are playing a game of 'how to dodge doing plan B because it hurts'

You didn't call him that night because of any significant changes in his behaviour. You did it to dodge withdrawal.

The toughest advice from the vets, the stuff you don't like is ALWAYS the best advice.



Sorry but I will not support attempts to dodge doing MB plans simply because they hurt.

I did it.

Did I insist on a poly? No. It did not apply in my case. He denied the evidence of the affair and to even admit it was an affair, so I moved straight to Plan B.

I realise you have painted a picture that you 'want to believe' it was only an EA and that he is some sort of special case that may have failed on a technicality .....

And that is your right. You are a grown woman. You can do whatever you want and ignore whatever you want.

But you won't find any support for that here.

If you choose to keep up with the plans, get every bit of RH and do a FULL MB recovery, you will be supported like crazy and you know that full well.

LOL! Thank you for making me laugh... Starfish is still here, but I'm exhausted and Plan B sucks!!! Yes, it's very painful and of course I miss my husband and our marriage. I want to keep fighting, but I'm scared and feeling weak! I want the truth (major facts) and knowing me, I'll also want the details or have other questions later. I'm just not sure what to think or where to go from here. I wish it was easier. I wish I could wave a wand and have all of the facts, but I can't.

The polygrapher said it could have been a detail from OW#2 as to why he failed.
I have followed the plans here to a "T", until 4 1/2+ days into Plan B. Plan B sucks... I'm not going to lie... The pain is and was horrendous! There are others here who haven't asked for a poly or followed through with it because they knew they had all of the info, so this is one of the things I was talking about regarding polygraphs. I have been reading and listening to other stories here.

I just need to figure out what I want... I'm not sure. I'm praying and listening to the advice that is given to me. I don't know what else I can do. I did what ML said today about what to say to WH. The ball is in his court. I have nothing right now...

If you think Plan B sucks, recovery is much much harder. And a false recovery is going to tear you apart.

Call. The. Coaching. Center.

Okay, this one is pretty easy...

Oh so glad to hear that! Sure you're tired, and yes, Plan B does suck...for a while anyway. Plan B is designed for a reason, and for a very good reason. YOU need to preserve YOUR mental health, and your posting the past few pages indicate that you are way past due for this reprieve. Oh yes, it will be hard as hell to begin with (as you have discovered), but you need to separate yourself from the drama that put you here in the first place.

I know you are scared, but you are not weak. Not by a long shot. You're tired of the lies, tired of this, that, and the other thing and you're starting to consider accepting partial truths to end all the crap that you are having to deal with. And it WILL!!!!!!

Well, for a little while anyway.

You abandon the plan now and you can definitely expect to have your butt back here sooner rather than later crying that everyone was right and you were wrong. Bet on it, hon. It WILL happen. Or you can do the right thing now, and save yourself the pain of a false recovery.

And that is exactly where you are headed if you insist on maintaining this course of action. Guaranteed.

Glad I made you LOL though. Usually I make people cringe. LOL

The fee is $225 for 45-50 minutes. That is very expensive! Should I call on my own or with WH if I decide to do this.

Has anybody here used the coaching center and what type of advice/feedback did you receive? I'm just wondering what I can expect.

You should call on your own first.

It may seem expensive, but it's much cheaper than a divorce, no?

There have been MANY MANY posters who have called the coaching center and I have heard nothing but good things.

I really think that if you were to call, even the once, you would find the resolve to do whatever it is that you will need to do to try to save your marriage. They will give you the best advice.

I know that if my WH were to have attempted to come home, I would pay the money to get to talk to Steve or Jennifer.