I had to laugh at Dr Harley one time when a WW played the controlling card on him. She told him her husband was "controlling." Dr Harley says hmmmmm, with your history of destructive behavior, wouldn't you agree you need to be controlled?

Melody...thanks for the clarification.....lol.

LOL....I would love to hear that one!

My now wife cheated on her then husband over 10 years ago. She ended up divorcing husband and marrying cheater. He cheated 3 times on her and she ended up divorcing him 7 years later. We got married 5 months ago.

She still has a close personal relationship with cheaters parents. Like texting them to let them know what doctor said when she was sick (and hiding it from me because she didn't want me to get mad)...etc. personal stuff. She says that they didn't do anything to her so why should she get rid of that relationship. She is still having an emotional affair with cheater, cheaters mom tried to get her to break up with me when we were dating so she could be back with cheater. She tells me that it is the kids grandparents, so she has a duty to have a good relationship with them. She has a very minimal relationship with my mom (who lives far away).

When we are together at t-ball games, etc, it feels like the old family is back together..,,I feel like an outsider (even with cheater's new wife there). I feel like my wife is still acting like the daughter in law (sending baseball schedules and reminders, etc). I don't like it.

Am I wrong for letting this bother me?

I'd try sticking to one thread so we're not bouncing back and forth.

No, you are not controlling--brings back old memories of when my xH (I am a FWW) politely asked me to stop texting this one guy I was "just friends" with, and that it made him uncomfortable, to which I replied exactly like your wife is. Hey, it did start off "just friends, then turned into an EA--actually already was. Although it never got physical with that guy, I betrayd my husband, and it still sickens me to this day. You are NOT being controlling, and I wish I can shake some sense into that wife of yours, but...I think she is emotinoally confiding in that guy. Sorry, but I think she's already emotionally attatched, judging from her immediate DEFENSIVE, combative reaction to your request.

Agree. Nubere, you'll get far more help if you stick to one thread -- people don't have the time to read multiple threads to get your full story. We tell you this for your benefit.

Look, all of your feelings and fears about your wife's behavior are very valid. She is a ticking time bomb unless something drastically changes.

Do me a favor and ask her this question:

"What is your plan to remain faithful to me?"

Come back and report what she says. I must tell you I believe what you report will be grim. If she is unwilling to implement a plan that includes extraordinary precautions to protect your marriage, then I'm sorry to say it, but you'd be wise to cut your losses now, otherwise I believe you will be in for a lifetime of torture at her hands.

Mrs. W

The controlling card was used on me many times. I told my wife she acted like I chained her to the house. The only person that has control over your spouse is your spouse. What you are doing is preventive maintenance, so to speak.

I too am curious to hear how she intends to avoid repeating her former mistakes. She can hardly say 'Well I would never do that' which is what most people with bad boundaries say. She cant say that cause she's done it!

I predict something along the lines of 'Because I love you' or 'Because you make me happy' etc. Which is code for 'As long as YOU keep doing what I like, I won't cheat on you' Which puts all the responsibility on you, and means she doesnt see why you or she should expect good behaviour from her under all circumstances. She will only be faithful if you do what makes her happy - which is the very definition of controlling.

So ask her her plan to stay faithful to you and try not to respond too much or get into too much debate. Just ask, listen and report back.

I am also sort of curious about what your plan for this marriage was before you wed.

You knew she was a WW, and presumably you knew she was still in close contact with her affair partner. Did that bother you before marriage or is it only a bother now? How did you see things going? Was there an idea that things would be different once you got married? I think it is very dangerous she is still in contact the man she threw everything away for, I'm just curious why this is only bothering you now?

Indie girl,

Thank you for the insight. When we married I know she had cheated and it bothered me, but not living together did not bring the amount of exposure of her contact with ex. I wasn't there to see the late night texts, or the amount of phone calls, etc. her story always was ( and still is) that she hasn't loved him since the kids were 8 months and she found out he cheated for the third time, I bought the whole, "be respectful to the ex for the kids" talk, until I recently got their whole story (two weekends ago) about the affair starting at her work, first time he cheated they were not married, etc. we had a huge fight and I demanded the whole story. I had no idea all of this went on. She told me she was hoping to pack it all away, forget it and hope it never surfaced. she told me she is a different person now, has matured a lot since the affair and she is sure she could never have an affair again because the affair was the biggest mistake of her life. But I feel when she divorced ex, she gave up the physical part of that relationship and replaced it with me, but kept the emotional part, being the daughter in law to his family, etc. this was not the feeling or plan when we married. In addition, she doesn't set up boundaries with "single guy friends" at work or out of work....she has done nothing to try to protect our marriage since we wed and when I point out the single guy who comes to her office to chat (daily...multiple guys), she tells me I'm paranoid and controlling and demands I trust her.

So, based on what I knew before the marriage, I felt like she had moved on and was ready to move on with me...I read an article from Dr Harley recently that said before marriage she has the right to act independent, take separate vacations, talk to who she wants, etc. but after marriage, there needs to be POJA, different boundaries (especially with friends of opposite sex), etc. that transition has not taken place, and that for sure was not the plan. I feel like we signed a piece of paper, we moved in her house (that her and ex bought...and still has "reminders all over the house") and nothing else has changed. We've fought incessantly about this and I usually get angry outburst, "give me time to transition", we'll buy a new house eventually, etc. as a matter of fact, I lived out of a suitcase for over a month and to this day there are no wedding pictures up, etc. that was also not the plan...li planned I would be welcomed with open arms, the two I's would turn into We's and we would protect this new marriage and work every day to grow it.....but the result is me transitioning, working and ultimately becoming a constant complainer (which I know is a love buster).

We have fought constantly since we got married and usually the topic boils down to "you are trying to change me" and "now that we are married you are trying to control me". I feel I'm just trying to establish boundaries now that we are married and that's why I posted this asking if I'm being controlling.

Talking about her ex and other guys usually results in her angry outburst, defensive ness, etc...followed by a huge fight. It's wearing me down.....is it time for plan A?

I asked her that last week and she told me, "I'm not the person I used to be. I am more mature and have kids now. I was a different person then. I would not have married you if I thought there would be a possibility that I would cheat". She says I need to drop the whole cheating talk because I'm just using it to intentionally hurt her and dwelling on the past. I tell her I don't feel like she has moved on from cheater, and she tells me to quit being jealous of him, grow up and know I stopped loving him years ago....that she needs to be friends with him to co-parent the kids and I should quit being a baby.

Did she ever consider getting back with her betrayed ex husband when her affair went south? (trust me I have a point an this relates to you!)

Its probably best if you click notify and have the mods merge your threads, so everything is in the one place.

I said this on your other thread.


I stand corrected:



What nerve!

Dont trust people who say 'trust me' so they can indulge in risky behaviour. NEVER trust people who have proved themselves untrustworthy but who still want to be treated as though they haven't.



Just highlighted hese points as they are very worrying signs.

Your wife became addicted to this man during her affair. Affairs are very dramamtic and cause huge releases of dopamine in the brain, which is more adictive than crack cocaine. They ususally believe themselves to be soulmates and throw eveything away to be together, in spite of the pretty obvious signs they arent suited and that the OM is a loser.

95 per cent of affairs end in two years, usually because the OM is a loser and the relationship not practical.

Often the WS wants to return home when that happens (which prob wasnt possible for your wife) When they come home Dr H tells the BS they must separate the affair partners who will be addicted to each other forever. Some people have had recovered marriages for twenty years and the WS has returned to the AP because they just miss that high - that addictive feeling so much.


I think you're dead right and unfortunately, I think you are the replacement for the former betrayed husband. Their relationship only worked when the BH was propping them up. He met some needs, OM met others. As a real reltaionship they fail, they can only get their high as affair partners. Their addiction is only active when you meet some needs and he meets others. On his own, he fails.

And it will get physical too.

I'd get every snooping gadget there is, keyloggers VAR, GPS. I doubt their conversations are things they want you seeing.

no need to start new threads

Nubere, Plan A is not appropriate. This is not even about unmet needs, but is about her philosophy of marriage. She is a freeloader and probably has been for a very long time. Going into Plan A will not address her freeloader mentality. If I were you, I would get coaching from Steve Harley and let him persuade her to end her EA with her X-husband. You are not going to be able to do it yourself. And I will just tell you that if she doesn't make a dramatic change in her approach to marriage, you aren't going to be married for long because you won't be able to stand it. She did not marry you to gain a marriage, she married you to complement her existing lifestyle.

If you get her on the phone with Steve Harley he might be able to persuade her to give up her lifestyle and use this program. He is very persuasive and he won't throw you under the bus like most marriage counselors. He also won't waste a minute of your time. They charge about $200 a session [which can go anywhere from 1 to 2 hours] but it is worth every penny. You wouldn't need alot of sessions, just enough to persuade her to get on board.


And you should tell her you don't trust her. She is untrustworthy. Just as you don't trust a drunk driver, you don't trust a wife that has poor boundaries around men.


Dr Harley would classify your wife as a "freeloader"

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

She says I need to drop the whole cheating talk because I'm just using it to intentionally hurt her and dwelling on the past...she tells me to quit being jealous of him, grow up and know I stopped loving him years ago....I should quit being a baby.

Okay, next question:

Sweetums, what are you plans to stop the DJs and start acting like a FWW/FBW whose husband is resentful of your sharing any more than minimal information with folks outside our blessed union?

And BTW:

I would not have married you if I thought there would be a possibility that I would cheat.

Sooooo.....the marriage she eventually betrayed, she entered into believing she WOULD cheat?

How do I do the coaching with Dr. Harley....we agreed to talk for a half hour tonight and I want to bring it up.

Nubrere, click on the counseling center at the top of the page. My suggestion would be to NOT bring it up yet. GEt an appointment with Steve for yourself and let Steve assess your situation and guide you in getting her on the phone for the next session. He will tell you exactly what to say to her. If you try and get her to do it yourself, she will likely balk and just play the controlling card again.

OP's original thread:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2614533#Post2614533

It might be worth mentioning that OP is husband #3 and they have only been married 5 months. OP, you should speak with Steve alone for now and go from there. You are not trying to fix a good marriage gone bad, but rather trying to change who your wife always has been. Professional intervention is essential.

Please note that you won't be coaching with Dr Bill Harley. You will be coaching with his son, Steve Harley. Dr Harley's son and his daughter, Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers, run the telephone coaching service.