Are these the only conditions? Have you given him a list of the EPs Dr H recommends?

Have you considered a poly to ensure you have RH?

I'm kind of concerned he is one day threatening the kids welfare, the next everything you ask of him is cool.

Also have him write you what his Extraordinary Precautions will be. Here is a great thread about that Extraordinary Precautons by HerPapaBear

I really believe he was scared because the ultimatum wasn't coupled with desperation. I lack fear because I have a plan and a close Plan B date, and I think he could sense this was his last chance to stop whatever was going to happen next.

I explained the much larger EP list early last week or so. He knows what's expected. I think he's floundering though and doubt he'll actually go through with canceling the lease and going no contact with other women. He's probably trying to buy time.

I'm showing him I have faith in him. Being the person he'll be missing out on. When he reneges on his offer, it's Plan B. If he's actually on board, then I will be requiring the poly, number change, etc. If that proves to be too much for him, my Plan B will be complete and ready to go.

Basically, my thinking is if he does take it back (as he's known to do) his last memories of me will be my love and support. It will be swift no contact from the person I want him to remember.

If he surprises me, great, but I will be expecting more and the same scenario will occur. My support, his denial of what I need, swift no contact. It makes it easier for me to avoid going into Plan B in anger, but rather my last ditch effort to save my feelings like the letter says.

I'm not willing to take him back and move forward while he keeps the cell phone number, lies of past involvement and party lifestyle. If he can't handle these first few things, he can deal with the having to do all the things before talking to me again.

You're on the right track.

Keep the bar set high. Because recovery won't work if he doesn't have to do any of the work and you're doing it all.

You're doing fantastic.

Dr. Appointment this week, correct?

Yes, Thursday morning.

Sounds good jen.

Yep. He's already trying to back out agreeing with the ultimatum. He *meant* to say that he was thinking of cancelling the lease. That he's going to talk to them tomorrow. That if he did cancel it, he wouldn't show me the canceled lease - it's the principal of the matter you see, either I believe him or I don't. Sigh. We need to move slower. As if 7 weeks wasn't enough time to run around like a 21 year old without any responsibilities.

Managed to Plan A through it, but only because Friday is Plan B day.

Of course, I now realize that his birthday is Saturday and it'll totally look like a vindictive move to Plan B the day before. Oh well.

My major concern, which may seem like an issue to deal with in the future but I can't seem to stop thinking about it, is what happens come September? If Plan B doesn't effect him, how would I handle the birth of our baby? Can I, and should I, really keep him out of the hospital? It's his daughter too, but not like I can up and leave when he comes. How can I handle visitation with a newborn? There's no way I'd feel comfortable sending her off with him days or weeks after birth, but I can't have him hanging around here.

This is totally putting the cart before the horse, but I just can't stop worrying about it.

Why did he have to make our lives so difficult?

He's right about it being a matter of principle. If you refuse to take the word of someone who has lied in the past, this makes you smart and smart people are hard to cheat on.

Theres NO WAY this guy would take a poly either, until he turns that all-important corner. I would make it a condition and be extremely unapologetic about not trusting him.

Say 'I dont trust you but I will give you the opportunity to earn back my trust. I need you to show me the following trustworthy actions'.

Plus a wife should be able to see important documents in ALL circumstances. Full transparency. Another condition.


Not at all vindictive. After all you warned him, which is more than he did for you. And you start it with a love letter which would make it easy peasy for him to get on board with an absolute gift - a great marriage.

Plus its best to launch Plan B on a special event. He gets to immediately see what the result of his actions will mean for the rest of his life.



Good god no. How on earth will you get through labour with the pain of his presence? If he had hit you he could not have hurt you more and you wouldnt be considering letting him in then.

And for what? So you can share the bond of the experience together? He has willingly ruined your bond. And its not as if he's ignorant of the looming birth. He put that bond at risk, knowing full well it might bar him from his baby's birth and being able to tuck his kids in at night.

In Plan B you dont consider the waywards feelings at ALL. You warn them well in advance what they risk and if they choose a poor life, that's up to them.

BSs with children only consider the law, and their child's desire to see their dad. That's it. They dont consider the man who willingly put family life in the trash.

You'll probably need legal advice on what to do about access to the baby while so young. Only agree to what makes you comfortable.

I'm having a scheduled c-section (one of the mixed blessings of a high risk pregnancy - no labor pain, awful recovery period) and already knew I wasn't going to have him as my support person. He was so not thrilled by that, but my c-sections always go poorly (like near death blood pressure, shots to the heart, heart paddles at the ready poorly) and I can't have someone there that I don't feel truly cares about my well-being. He thinks I'm doing it to hurt him, but if he was the right person, he's be with me throughout the entire pregnancy, not just the final moments.

I meant at the hospital. I'll be there with the baby for 3 days (if all goes well) and no one can see her unless I'm there. I rationally know that the baby won't notice or care if he comes or not, but completely struggle with the idea of him not seeing her because of me. I have an issue with it, just because to me it feels like I'm saying "I'm punishing you because you don't love me anymore." I know that's not true, but I've always had a problem considering my own feelings first.

You would not have him come to the hospital at all when you give birth. This is a consequence of the choices HE makes. You wouldn't want him there being wayward anyways. Waywards make horrible support people. They are all about THEMSELVES. You don't need that. And why taint the memory of such a wonderful event with the presence of such a wayward.

We have had some Plan Bers give birth to their children without their WHs, and they felt much better about it.

As far as visitations, have you consulted an attorney? Of course you wouldn't feel comfortable handing over a newborn, so find out your legal rights so you won't be bullied into anything.

Jennifer its not about hurting him it's about protecting yourself and ignoring his self inflicted pain.

No one cares about what drug addicts feel or think because everyone knows their thinking is not healthy nor is it helpful to anyone.

You husband is addicted to getting a buzz from women outside of his marriage. This makes whatever he thinks, feels or expresses pretty much worthless because he is not acting in a moral or respectful way so consider this when you are thinking about his feelings.

He's a big boy you don't need to help him he can figure out a way to see his baby when it comes. Protect yourself legally and let him worry about the mess he created, no judge with an ounce of compassion would force you to hand over your newborn for visitations with a cheater.

I really hope that you find the peace you deserve when you go into plan B. Your WH has been so disrespectful to you and your marriage for so many years he really needs the shock of plan B to get him on the right track. Let go of him let him hit rock bottom so he can start claiming up again from the mess he created.

No.

What you're saying is "Your behavior hurts to the point that I don't want you around me anymore. If your adultery interferes with your parenting, then that's your problem." But, of course, you won't be telling him that since you're in Plan B.

To be honest, I seriously doubt he'll show up because infants and children don't really fit into his described lifestyle. So try not to worry too much about it. But if he does show up and barges into the room, you buzz the nurse's station and ask them to remove the disruption. He can go get a court order if he wants to see the child.

Yes, quite right.



No you don't. Not according to this nugget of wisdom.



So why is putting your feelings first for the C-section it different when it comes to his seeing the baby?

Because of his role fathering her. You want the best for your unborn daughter and the 'best' would be a dad who can't wait to see her when she is born and who is there for the hard stuff as well the fun stuff. A dad who bonds with her.

Because you can't bond with a baby doing fun stuff and he's only interested in being a fun dad. You bond with a baby by caring for them. And he makes that bonding process impossible. Quite frankly because he isn't interested.

He may find her cute if he sees her in the hospital. He may enjoy showing her off to relatives. But how long would that interest last, even if he were still at home? Long enough for 4am feeds and walking the floor?

Will he find her cute enough in the hospital, bond with her enough to decide to stop mortally wounding her mother?

I'm going to alter your own wise words from your daughters perspective.

"If he was the right person TO BE MY DAD, he'd be with me all the time, instead of being with his girlfriends and not just when its fun and easy"

PBL written out and ready to go. Just about finished with the addendum.

Question: Do I include my requirements for reestablishing contact in the addendum, or does that list just go to the IM? Basically what I'm asking is do I tell him what I need, or do we just wait and see if he ever asks the IM about it?

And for the EP list, I specify what I need him to do to prove he's serious before I'm willing to resume contact separately from what the things I will expect once he returns home, correct?

I feel my question is a little jumbled, so let me know if you need clarification.

Your PBL includes NC with OW correct? If he becomes serious about recovery, he contacts your IM. Don't bog him down with all of your requirements now, his lil wayward brain won't be able to handle all of the details. You would give your list of requirements to your IM, and she can pass it on to him when he is ready for it. You actually shouldn't even be aware of him getting those requirements unless and until he is willing to meet ALL of your conditions.

I had a short list of things that my WH would need to do for me to resume direct contact with him, and then a longer list that I would then tell him about after that time.

On the shorter list, I had things like, NC with OW for LIFE, NCL written, and approved and sent by me, quitting his job(that's where he and OW met), STD testing, agreeing to MC(MB of course, but he doesn't know about MB), and that he would WANT to work on our marriage. The longer list evolved as I was in Plan B.

Yes


OK. I don't want to overwhelm him, but I didn't want him to come back thinking that no contact, moving back home, phone number and Facebook changes were the the only things I was going to want.


I'll make sure to add this to the list for the IM, since it makes it clear that I expect continued work as opposed to returning to the way things were before.

Just realized, since I'm not adding EPs to my addendum, it's finished. Which means Plan B is completely ready to go.

Have to sort out and get a short list of EPs to my IM which shouldn't take long.

Basically, I'm just sort of surprised that it's done. I could do it today if I needed to. That's both tempting and very, very scary.

I'm so ready for the constant drama to be gone, but at the same time I'm afraid of the prospect of a life without him. It would be so much easier if he was just horrible all the time.

So the plan for Friday is that he'll visit the kids, get his home fix, and get his last taste of me in my Plan A wonderfulness.

Once it's time for him to leave, he gets 3 envelopes (as he's walking out the door to avoid getting the why-are-you-doing-this confrontation). One will have his birth certificate and social security card (the last things still here), one will have my PBL, and one will have the addendum.

As soon as he's gone, I'll immediately block him on Facebook, block calls and texts from him on my phone, and block his email from my various accounts.

And either surprise myself with my strength or have a nervous breakdown. Could really go either way.

And the Plan B being ready has already proven to be too much of a temptation.

Found out that WH plans on spending his birthday (Saturday) at the bar celebrating OW1'S friend's birthday as well. When asked about it, he claimed he said no and immediately deleted his acceptance of the Facebook invitation.

I planned on Plan B starting Friday anyway, but that's not the point. This just makes the going back to being hesitant about canceling the lease and the not being ready to move back in and work on our marriage this weekend all the more telling. He's still keeping his options open because he doesn't think I'm going to risk losing him by pushing the issue. And so much for the no contact he swears has been going on for "a while now." Just how are you no contact with other women when purposely going to a bar you know they'll be at.

As much as I hate Facebook (because honestly, half these opportunities to cheat would not come about if we weren't all so effing connected), at least it's a wonderful tool to catch liars.

I can't just suck it up anymore. He's getting the PBL and stuff right after work when he drops off the kids money.

I'm giving up a free crab dinner to go into Plan B early. In return, I'm getting a chance to hold onto my last shreds of sanity. The pregnant part of me sadly thinks sanity is way overrated when it means you miss out on free shellfish. At least there's still enough of me left in my head to know that if a crab dinner is what I'm more concerned about losing, it's an acceptable trade.

That's why getting into Plan B will be so healing for you.

Your Dr. Apt tomorrow and Plan B both for you. You're putting you before your cake eating, playa WH.

Good for you.

Will you try and parallel parent while in Plan B?
Parallel Parenting

That is the plan.

Pick ups and drop offs are all either at school or with my parents.

Set visitation schedule and any necessary negotiations going through our IM.

No discussion/notification of activities with the children during each other's time.

That's the big one, which I sort of relish taking away. He get's a version of a home fix by constantly asking how the children are and what they've done each day. 75% of the time he contacts me, it's to ask about the kids. Multiple times a day. I think he believes he's a good dad because he asks, not realizing to be a good dad, he should be here, knowing what's going on and never having to ask. He feels connected to the kids through me, without ever having to interrupt his lifestyle to actually parent the kids. Since neither I nor my IM will be giving him the cute kid stories he wants, maybe he'll start to see the magnitude of what he's losing.