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Originally Posted by JenniferIsLost
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Because typed can be messed with.

Also write when he does pick them up--good AND bad will look good to the judge.


Ok, good to know. I'll start over, beginning with yesterday's good visit.
Jen, also make sure you document not just the issues that you are dealing with as far as the kids are concerned, but anything that might be pertinent to a judge getting ready to make a decision about your life.

Mortarman had a field day in court during his saga because of his diligence in writing everything down. I'm going to try and find this for you, but it may take a while.

But like everyone else said, keep a journal in your own handwriting and date every entry. Also make sure you document whether or not he's meeting his financial obligations to you and the kids. Him wanting to abandon his familial responsibilities to cat around in no way relieves him of his financial obligations.

Document, document, document.


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


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Here's one of Mortarman's court sessions blow by blow. I know it's a lot to read, but it truly does illustrate the importance of documenting everything.

Originally Posted by Mortarman
Okay…finally had time to get back to this. The kids had me going all weekend long. My wife picks them up at 3pm today, so I will get a breather for the next three days. Be able to catch up on some things that have not gotten done over all of this mess. Anyway, here is the court update:


We went into the courtroom and sat down. I was on the left side, and Mrs. Mortarman on the right. The judge was already in there, and began to ask for documents, etc from our attorneys. Then both attorneys gave their opening remarks. Mark goes ahead and asks for the very same deal they offered me in the hall earlier. My attorney states that we are going for full custody.

Once that was done, the judge asked my wife’s attorney (Mark) to call his first witness…which was my wife.

She got on the stand, which was right in front of my table, and Mark began asking all sorts of basic questions. Like her name, address (which she messed up), etc. Then he began in on my wife’s back injury from her car accident a year ago. He spent a lot of time on that one. It appears that he was trying to play the “poor wifey�� card with the judge. That she might not be able to work, or work as much because of her back.

He then went on to ask my wife about what bills she paid, how much she made, etc. Again, Mark was trying to say that I wasn’t providing anything towards the family financially and that my wife was doing all of the heavy lifting. This is all interesting, as you will see in a minute. Watch what happens once my attorney is able to introduce the facts of the situation…and how Mark and my wife react.

Anyway, almost nothing in their questioning had to do with the kids, except what she has bought them (clothes, etc). Nothing about her involvement in their education, activities, etc. My attorney picked up on that in a hurry!

When he went to cross examine my wife, he immediately zeroed in on her financial situation. He began going thru all of the costs, etc. That is when the judge chimed in, asking my wife:

Quote
��Let me get this straight. You are telling us that your back is bad and you may not be able to work. That your husband isn’t providing and you may not have enough money to support you and the children. But then you leave and get a house that runs $500 more a month. Why is that, Mrs. Mortarman?��

Between the Porky Pig response (you know the one…��aabbbaadaaa abbaaadda��), she had no response. He had busted her again on being financially irresponsible…and it was telling that the judge was the one that chimed in.

My mother’s house, where we are staying right now as I look for housing in the school district, had been vilified by my wife in their questioning…as unfit for the kids to live at (not sure why). But my attorney (Jon) fired back with “Isnt it true, Mrs. MM, that you lived in that house twice during the marriage (we were there the first 6 months of our marriage…and one other time for 2 days as we waited on a new home to be ready)? So, why was it suitable then, and not now?�� Again, Porky would have been jealous at how good she was at babbling.

He went on to ask her about the financial situation. He asked her:

Quote
��Isnt it true that your husband has given you over $9,000 since November 1st (until the end of May) to go towards household bills?��

My wife came unhinged at that!! She looked straight at me and screamed:

Quote
��You had best have check numbers and cancelled checks showing that!!!!!��

In the matter of 5 minutes, my attorney had her completely off balanced. The judge immediately went off on my wife:

Quote
��Missy, you need to be quiet. Mr. Sandground, you need to come over and advise your client on proper court behavior in court (she is not supposed to address me)��

Her attorney came over and spoke with her. And we continued. My attorney left that issue for the moment, as he would come back to it when he had me on the stand. He finished up with my wife by asking her if she was still in contact with the OM. Mark objected and the judge sustained, stating that for now…unless adultery since we moved back together can be proven, that he would leave that for the divorce hearing. Right now we were just doing custody.

So, my attorney finished with her by asking her about her job. He asked her what she did. She replied that she was a registered nurse and served in the trauma unit. He then asked what she did there. She had stated earlier that she had been moved to scheduler and light duty because of her back (this is where my attorney is awesome…he is great at picking up on things and cross-examining witnesses). So, Jon asks her “Do you make your own schedule?�� She replies that she does. My attorney then asks her why she is asking for custody, but giving Friday nights, Sat and Sun, to me. She states that it is because she works those days. He then asks her “When was the last time that you worked Friday, Saturday and Sunday.�� She says she doesn’t recall. “Last weekend?�� She says “no.�� “The weekend before?�� “No.�� “How about the weekend before that?�� “No.��

My attorney had a copy of her schedule and asked her “Isnt it true that you haven’t worked a Friday, Saturday and Sunday yet this year?�� She Porky Pigged that one with some lame “I’m not sure.��

So, my attorney closed the deal on her with asking her:

Quote
��So, if you can make your own schedule, then you can get as many hours as you need, correct?��
She answers “Yes.��
“And you have told this court that you make $5400 a month, but isn’t it true over the last two months you have made over $10,000 a month?��
She replies: “Yes, but it is because Mortarman isn’t providing any income.��
My attorney goes on to say “We’ll get to that in a minute. Mrs. Mortarman, your doctor supposedly states…I say ‘supposedly’ because we have seen no documentation here concerning your injury…but he supposedly states that you need to stop work on cut back on your hours. But you have increased them. You have increased the amount of bills that you have. You have increased the amount of your rent. Isnt this true?��
“Yes, but…��
My attorney cuts in: “So, because you have increased all of this, you have had to increase the amount of time you have been working, correct?��
“Yes��
“Do you for see having to work this much in the future, in order to make bills?��
“Yes, without help I will have to.��
“No further questions, your Honor.��

The reason for that last questioning had to do with two things. First, on the issue of her being with the kids on the weekends. Both of us had shown calendars that showed me with the kids exclusively almost every Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. By her showing that she could make her schedule, that she hadn’t worked every weekend in its entirety…but was still not with the kids at their functions…it showed that she was more interested in other things!

The second was to show that she wasn’t making $5400 for child support purposes, but instead $10,000 a month. Which would put her income ahead of mine. In Virginia, child support is a formula, based on who has custody and the amounts each parent earns. So, by showing her making more money, it would change the calculations.

So, my wife stepped down. Mark calls me next to the stand. As I head up there, the judge asks both attorneys, for the sake of time, that I stay up there for my attorney’s questioning. They agreed.

Mark asks me some simple questions. And then goes straight into the bills. “Mr. Mortarman, what bills do you pay in the household?�� I stated that I have the entire list of every dime for the last 7 months right there next to my attorney. Mark wont let me get it. He just keeps asking me “well, state to me what bills you have been paying.�� I again state that I cannot due so intelligently without my notes. He persists…but I do not back down.

Mark continues this tack until the judge asks me: “Mr. Mortarman, I believe that Mr. Sandground is trying to get the specifics of the financial situation. Can you recollect any of what he is trying to ask?�� I tell the judge that I can on some, but would be better served if I could see my notes from my Microsoft Money (which outlined every dime spent). The judge says that I can have it, and my attorney brings it to me.

Now, remember the outburst by my wife? Well, here was my response to that. Mark asks me:

Quote
“Mr. Mortarman, you stated earlier that you have provided over $9,000 in direct payments to your wife to go towards the household bills. Please list to me what payments and when.��
My reply went something like this: “November 12th, $1200, check number 134…November 7th, $1250, check number 153…December 5th, $600, check number 162…��
Mark interrupts me with “Isnt it true that that payment to her was for medical bills for the kids that you were paying her back for?��
“No it was not, sir. It was for a garnishment that my wife just received from her college that she hadn’t paid. Mrs. MM had come to me crying, stating she needed help with that…so I did.��
Mark says “Okay, next…��
I went on to list all of the checks given to her, and that they could check against the bank statements that I had given them. And they did indeed total up to more than $9000.

So, my wife’s outburst went for naught. I had provable records showing my support. Her ascertain, and Marks ascertain, that I had done nothing towards household bills had been proven false.

Mark gave up shortly thereafter, and my attorney came up to question me. He asked me questions about my involvement with the kids. Who does their homework with them? Who is at all of their events? Who takes them to church? All of the answers were “me.��

He asked me about the finances. I said I was trying to take care of the past mess we had accrued, mostly due to a flood, and to me not being able to tell Mrs. MM “no.�� I had not gotten away from our bills in my name by declaring bankruptcy like my wife.

He then asked the big question. “Mortarman…why do you believe that you should have custody of these children?�� And I went on a usual Mortarman roll:

Quote
�� I should be their primary custodian because I have been there. I have taken care of this family for 13 years…financially, emotionally, spiritually, educationally. I have given up everything I loved for these kids. And for Mrs. MM. I got custody before…but against the advice of many, I let Mrs. MM come back because I want our kids to have an intact family. I gave up my military career…what I love to do…in order to be the stable one in their lives. They had been thru He!! The last few years because of their mother’s instability. Leaving them on three occasions. Caught in adultery. Putting herself before them and before anyone else. I go to work during the week. But when I am not at work, I am with my kids. Period! Everyday. My schedule is set based on their needs and events. It is what I do. My wife has a different agenda. I wish she was the mother she used to be…but sadly, she is not. And so I must be there for them. They have leaned on me for the last 4 years of this sordid mess. I believe that I should receive custody because I have continued to put them first, before everything else. Including myself!��

And I left the stand. The judge then asked us to leave, as he went to make his decision.

Next up…the decision…the reaction…and the last few days under the new paradigm.

Standing in His Presence


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


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Originally Posted by Scotland
Phone calls should also be put on there. And the behaviour of the children as well. You want to show everything that is going on with the kidlets.

I don't know if I would suggest sending your WH a reminder about visitations. It's not up to you to do that anymore. He is a big boy. He needs to take care of these things himself. I would also be prepared for him to want to have contact with the kids at times that are not his scheduled visitations.


My phone calls, since our oldest is only 4 and we're in Plan B, so his calls are blocked anyway.

Not sure how to document the kids behavior. It's hard to tell if my 3 year olds tantrums when after he drops her off are due to her being tired or something related to the visit.

The reminder was sent, but this will be the only time I send one. My IM suggested requesting a specific amount of time for notice be given for visits he wouldn't be showing up for. I told her to go ahead with 24 hours notice. The documented that an email was sent requesting this notice in the future under today's documentation of no show/no notification. From here on in, I'll just document that as well.


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And this is the other one I was referring to. I hope you don't consider this cluttering up your thread, but I think it's somewhat relative to your sitch as to the importance of documenting EVERYTHING.

Besides, who doesn't like to read anything MM writes.

Originally Posted by Mortarman
Before I tell you the verdict, I forgot to mention some things in the trial. First off, there were more records that helped me there. The first was the financial breakdown that I had. I could show where EVERY dime went. I had been keeping meticulous records since November, with less meticulous records before that. So, when her attorney and her stated that I had not provided, it was easy to prove wrong...backed up by the bank records. You cant do this overnight. You cant play catch-up, either. You must record everything as it happens. I was able to show not only what I paid directly to my wife to help with household bills, but also where I spent everything else. The other household bills that I was paying directly.

She had no counter-argument because she could not refute my records, and had no corresponding record system herself.

Secondly, I had a log (or journal). Daily, I would record the happenings of the day before. What happened with the kids. What my wife said. The days events. Once we separated, I kept a log on when we had the kids.

Now, she had her day planner...but it was obvious that she had gone in there and recorded when we had the kids after the fact. her attorney, while she was o nthe stand, had her list the days she had the kids. She went thru it, and it made it look like she had them like 26 days or something, with me havign somewhere around 14. Not true.

When I was on the stand, I read from my journal. My journal showed that we had them evenly, with 19 days for each one of them. When I proved that one of her dates in her book was wrong (because she had referenced another event when she stated she picked up the kids...but that event happened on a different day), the judge then could accept the veracity of my calendar and dismiss hers. It is one of the reasons that he came up with the custody solution he did. This was VERY key folks!

example: She stated on one question on the stand that when I got custody before, that I had left the kids with her for 16 days. I was laughing. Really. what the heck was she talking about? we had gone to court Dec 13, 2004. Sixteen days later was Dec 29. She was stating that I hadnt seen my kids for Christmas. Hah! I had my journal from back then too. Reality: I had let her have the kids for 6 days straight, right after court, because she was devastated from losing custody. I had done so out of kindness. I was repaid with her lying on the stand.

The last thing I wanted to mention before I give you the verdict and after...is that the opening arguments by the attorneys were telling. Mark wanted to concentrate on me not providing...and my wife workign hard, albeit with a very bad back. He totally concentrated o nthe financial end of the deal. And when we proved most of his ascertains wrong, there went his case also.

Jon, my attorney, concentrated first on me as a father. A guy who had suffered at the hands of his wife's betrayals...but still endeavered to save the family. Even after getting custody before. He showed the lack of care and concern by my wife, as she shipped them off to her mothers for 3 months so she could go to school and carry on adultery. He showed her leaving twice more, once for 8 months...with her barely seeing the kids. He showed me consistently providing for my wife to be able to come back and try to reconcile, only for her to fly off the handle again. That it was all about her.

Okay, now to the verdict and the aftermath...

Standing in His Presence


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

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Originally Posted by TigerWes
Also make sure you document whether or not he's meeting his financial obligations to you and the kids. Him wanting to abandon his familial responsibilities to cat around in no way relieves him of his financial obligations.


I read Mortarman's court session and definitely see the need to document beyond just the goings on with the kids.

I not sure how to go about doing that. I receive 232 court ordered child support a week. My WH gives me approximately 100 in cash a week on top of that to pay for half of the kids school/camp. That leaves me with 126 a week to completely support the children and myself. My cell phone was just shut off, car insurance leaves me in the negative the week it comes due and we almost completely have to rely on my parents for food and other basic necessities. WH makes between 1000 to 2000 a week, giving the children the bare state mandated minimum and me zip - knowing we aren't capable of surviving this way.

I guess my question is - how do I document my complete lack of income and inability to pay my bills now that he isn't helping, versus the extreme amount of money he is keeping for himself (and still managing to overdraw his account weekly without actually paying most of his own bills - creditors keep calling for him)?


BW (me): 32
WH: 30
Married 2005
DDs: 12 (mine from a previous relationship), 4, 3, and another due 9/9
DDay: many, last 2/24
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Document your bills. And document what you're given.

The shortfall would be obvious to the most thick judge around.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted by JenniferIsLost
Originally Posted by TigerWes
Also make sure you document whether or not he's meeting his financial obligations to you and the kids. Him wanting to abandon his familial responsibilities to cat around in no way relieves him of his financial obligations.


I read Mortarman's court session and definitely see the need to document beyond just the goings on with the kids.

I not sure how to go about doing that. I receive 232 court ordered child support a week. My WH gives me approximately 100 in cash a week on top of that to pay for half of the kids school/camp. That leaves me with 126 a week to completely support the children and myself. My cell phone was just shut off, car insurance leaves me in the negative the week it comes due and we almost completely have to rely on my parents for food and other basic necessities. WH makes between 1000 to 2000 a week, giving the children the bare state mandated minimum and me zip - knowing we aren't capable of surviving this way.

I guess my question is - how do I document my complete lack of income and inability to pay my bills now that he isn't helping, versus the extreme amount of money he is keeping for himself (and still managing to overdraw his account weekly without actually paying most of his own bills - creditors keep calling for him)?
Pretty much the same way you just posted here. Document everything, and then when you have enough to support your argument for more child support and maintenance, head back to court.

Why hasn't he been hammered with more court ordered support besides just child support. What state do you live in?


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

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Originally Posted by TigerWes
Why hasn't he been hammered with more court ordered support besides just child support. What state do you live in?


I live in New Jersey. I figured out how to file for child support on my own (without a lawyer) in 2010 when he stopped supporting me and the kids as a way to get me to stop questioning his relationships with other women. Without a lawyer, I had no idea how to file for anything else. Once we were in FR, he resumed supporting us and wanted me to ask for the CS order to be dismissed. Glad I had the feeling something was off and postponed or we'd be even worse off.


BW (me): 32
WH: 30
Married 2005
DDs: 12 (mine from a previous relationship), 4, 3, and another due 9/9
DDay: many, last 2/24
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Did you ever go to that lawyer place that Brits_Brat told you about?


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Time to get yourself to an attorney. Go to women's shelters and ask them who might be able to help you out. Your husband may even need to pay for your lawyer. Find out your legal rights.

Just ensure that when you are documenting, you do it emotionless. Meaning, you write things out very clinically.



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Jennifer, I had originally gone to a lawyer to file for separation but after thinking on it, I realized that my only concern was making sure my children were financially taken care of by their father. If he wanted to separate, let HIM pay for it! HA

I then downloaded the forms for child support from my county office. You can get started here:
http://www.njchildsupport.org/Article.asp?AID=35

good luck to you and your children!

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Originally Posted by JenniferIsLost
I guess my question is - how do I document my complete lack of income and inability to pay my bills now that he isn't helping, versus the extreme amount of money he is keeping for himself (and still managing to overdraw his account weekly without actually paying most of his own bills - creditors keep calling for him)?


How about applying for foodstamps (and medicaid while you're at it, just to have it set up for if/when he loses his job)? It's really helpful when you need it and will make the fact that he is not supporting you obvious. And then if your parents help you out, it can be on other things (like the phone bill!) Also, if the creditor calls are annoying or obnoxious, I would be sure to give them all his contact information and tell them he no longer lives with you. They *should* stop calling you.


Me, BS: 35
WxH: 36 "HAM" Hearts a mess
6yo DS (with WxH), 9 and 12yo DDs from first marriage
Discovered DH's affair in June, 2011
"I'm not having an affair, you're crazy." major gaslighting
Served with divorce papers on 2/3/12
Divorce final 7/29/2013
Living day by day, counting my blessings, loving my children
Personal Recovery well underway!
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you ever go to that lawyer place that Brits_Brat told you about?


They were in really bad areas that I didn't feel safe going to alone or pregnant. I applied online for my states legal service referral program which should connect me to someone who will work with me pro bono or on a low income basis. I'm waiting for their call. But now that my phone is shut off . . .


BW (me): 32
WH: 30
Married 2005
DDs: 12 (mine from a previous relationship), 4, 3, and another due 9/9
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Jennifer, I had originally gone to a lawyer to file for separation but after thinking on it, I realized that my only concern was making sure my children were financially taken care of by their father. If he wanted to separate, let HIM pay for it! HA

I then downloaded the forms for child support from my county office. You can get started here:
http://www.njchildsupport.org/Article.asp?AID=35

good luck to you and your children!


I've already got an active child support order. I need to find something in the way of spousal support. And unfortunately, my state does not do legal separation.


BW (me): 32
WH: 30
Married 2005
DDs: 12 (mine from a previous relationship), 4, 3, and another due 9/9
DDay: many, last 2/24
Kicked him out: 3/2
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Plan B: 4/19
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Originally Posted by JenniferVoyager
How about applying for foodstamps (and medicaid while you're at it, just to have it set up for if/when he loses his job)? It's really helpful when you need it and will make the fact that he is not supporting you obvious. And then if your parents help you out, it can be on other things (like the phone bill!) Also, if the creditor calls are annoying or obnoxious, I would be sure to give them all his contact information and tell them he no longer lives with you. They *should* stop calling you.


I applied online for foodstamps and just about everything social services offers. I'm waiting for them to contact me with my interview appointment date. Hopefully they'll send it through email since my phone is no longer turned on.

The creditors have his cell phone number but he won't answer their calls. They refuse to stop calling here since I can't give them a new house number for him. They've begun calling my extended family looking for him.


BW (me): 32
WH: 30
Married 2005
DDs: 12 (mine from a previous relationship), 4, 3, and another due 9/9
DDay: many, last 2/24
Kicked him out: 3/2
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Mornings are the worst for me. I wake up in such a bad mood, mad at him, mad at the world. As the day progresses, I get a little better and by the time I finally go to bed, I'm just about indifferent to his entire existence. I just need to get to the point where I don't wake up thinking of him and the hurt he's causing.

Today's WH's 30th birthday. I momentarily considered dialing his number and immediately handing the phone to the kids. But I'd have to coach them through the conversation. And why bother, really? He could have had them the entire weekend, but didn't see any reason to show up or say he wasn't coming. The kids don't realize it's his birthday, so I'm just going to forget about it as well. If it hurts him, well, good.

I also considered asking the IM to request that he pay my back cell phone bill, since he should have been paying it all along and I do need it for the kids (as well as pregnancy appointments and unbeknownst to him, legal stuff). But I figure he'll ignore or deny the request and I'm trying to keep IM contact to a minimum as well since he hasn't has yet to utilize her. Only upside I see, if I do have her make the request for me, I can document that he ignored or denied a request that would help me take care of both the pregnancy and the other kids.


BW (me): 32
WH: 30
Married 2005
DDs: 12 (mine from a previous relationship), 4, 3, and another due 9/9
DDay: many, last 2/24
Kicked him out: 3/2
Found MB/ Plan A: 4/4
Plan B: 4/19
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Can you put your mom or dad's number as your contact?


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2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 173
J
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J
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Can you put your mom or dad's number as your contact?


If I missed their call, which it seems I most likely have, I'll have to reapply. It's a week today since I applied and they said 2 business days, so I'll be reapplying as soon as I get 45 uninterrupted minutes (probably later tonight) and will add the house phone number and hope I'm here when they call. I'm usually here. Can't give my parents cell phone number because they do an intake interview then and I need to be the one who speaks with them.


BW (me): 32
WH: 30
Married 2005
DDs: 12 (mine from a previous relationship), 4, 3, and another due 9/9
DDay: many, last 2/24
Kicked him out: 3/2
Found MB/ Plan A: 4/4
Plan B: 4/19
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 552
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You've got to make visiting a lawyer a TOP priority. Get someone to go with you to the bad neighborhoods and do whatever it takes to get some legal advice. Your WH is leaving you high and dry financially and you need help now.

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 552
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Posts: 552
Punishing you by withholding funds is one of his most effective weapons. It's worked well in the past. You have to confront this and get support lined up. Solid support. Get that phone back on if you can and get a lawyer pronto!

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