Sorry, K. I'm NOT avoiding you. I promise.<P>That stuff is in your all's coveted POJA contract crap thing. Honesty in all situations. If I'm e-mailing someone that he's not comfortable with me e-mailing than I am obligated to stop.<P>And if he, as head of the house and ultimate decision maker, doesn't want to leave a church, then it is up ot me as the submissive wife to abide by that decision.<P>He knows how I feel ... I'm not going to ram it down his throat.

Yes, at the time I did. My W does not have what some refer to as a saving faith. She goes to church, sings in the choir, does all the things on the surface that a good Christian does. However, her behavior is that of a Christian trying to work their way into heaven. Faith ALONE is what saves you. Once you have a SAVING FAITH, you have an intense desire that causes you to show works. Faith alone and works alone is dead. But when you have both you have true peace in the midst of the storm. I die a thousand deaths everyday because of the way she treats me, yet I love her because He loved me first. Not out of obligation but out of my LOVE FOR HIM. Just as you would do anything for your parents, that is how I feel towards Him.<P>My W is working on getting there. She does what she does because of what she is taught rather than because she truly love Him. The moment she truly loves Him is the moment we got to having problems that we disagree on and work out. If we can't agree on a commmona solution that is appealing to each of us, we then will agree to disagree. We aren't there yet because my W wants to control everything around her because she had no one to support her when she was sexaully abused as a child. I will post a link after I finish this post so that you can read about why sexually abused victims have an intense desire to control everything. We have to surrender all control over to Him love Him.<P>My W does not understand these things because she sees only those things that make her comfortable because she feels that she is in control. I don't fault her because I remember when I went through my control phase.<BR>MONDO HUG!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Hey Maya:<P>I should give you a refresher on the Policy of Joint Agreement:<P>Never Do ANYTHING without a mutually enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.<P>So, if you're miserable going to church, he shouldn't be doing it. He should be brainstorming with you to find alternative solutions.<P>If you're emailing someone he's not comfortable with, you should discuss it with him and find a "win-win" solution.<P>I don't see any sign that you feel like you're winning here. And it either because of massive depression, or because your husband is not protecting you from his lovebusters, and not meeting your needs. Pure and simple.<P>So, which is it?? Is it depression?? Or does your husband exhibit behaviors that make you feel controlled, like a trophy, a piece of property, "submissive", etc.<P>I'm really trying to help you here. I'd still prefer that you call Steve, but let's here about how Maya feels about her husband. List all the bad points first.

Maya, <B>Why</B> isn't he comfortable with you emailing someone?

Maya, <BR>Your H is also getting borderline into not being what he professes. He is using God's word to forcce you into something so that he feels comfortable. He should make you feel comfortable. POJA taken to its fullest meaning is the unconditional love that God shows us. He expects nothing in return directly. It means having the other person's best interest regardless of what happens to us. I truly want my W to experience the JOY that I feel inside. The bad thoughts that creep into my head are the attacks that Satan is beating me with. Yes, I start feeling low and want to give. That is when I read something in Psalms and find that David was low a lot of the time. He wanted retribution for those who oppressed him. It is okay to have those feelings. It is what we do in response to those feelings that really counts. In everthing that we do we should be giving God all the glory, honor, and praise. But it is very helpful to know that others experience those feelings. I am sure that you feel that you are the only one. When I read that David felt the same way, I realize that we are still exeperiencing the same things because Satan is still trying to trip us up with our feelings. Satan has his greatest influence when we rely on our feelings rather than the truth that God has placed inn ALL our hearts.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Chris, because it was a former friend of the OM's. I had no interest in the guy, and he was a pastor and I wanted to debate theology with a "professional" if you will.<P>And I didn't want continued contact with the OM .... in fact I thought it was safe to e-mail this guy because OM has moved yet again to another part of the USA ....<P>Go ahead .. kick me.<P>What don't I like about H ....<P>I don't know ... he just bugs the crap out of me now ... I don't wanna live with him, be accountable to him, have to consciously WORK on meeting his needs, have to be "UP" all the time or else I'm questioned as to what's wrong ... and the answer is the same ol' thing .... not happy. I'm tired of trying to tiptoe around him cauz I don't wanna hurt him.<P>

Maya,<P>Good answer. It appears from the "Dr. K" perspective that you're not comfortable with being completely honest with your husband (the "tiptoing" comment). I'm guessing that your husband's response to your honesty isn't what you desire, so you're getting "adversion therapy" to being honest.<P>Now, on to the details. What is he doing specifically that is bugging you? How does he expect you to be submissive? How would your marriage need to change for you to want to stay?<P>

You've miscontrued the term "tiptoe" ... I'm careful NOT to hurt his feelings, always trying to make sure he feels "needed", etc. etc. etc.<P>Not tiptoeing around trying to get by with something. My life is exceptionally dull. There's nothing for me to get away with anyway. The only thing I'm 'lying' about would be my feelings, I guess. And I came clean on that last week by telling him I'm still unhappy in the marriage.<P>You're missing the point, K. I don't want HIM. Maybe there's too much water under the bridge and I can't go back. I just know that I simply don't want a relationship ... I don't wanna WORK on a relationship. I don't wanna be tied down. There's too much hurt .... I don't wanna be vulnerable anymore ... if I don't love then I don't get hurt. <P>No, that can't be avoided with my kids, but if I'm NOT in a marriage relationship then I don't have to worry about needs not being met, not meeting HIS needs, getting hurt when he doesn't do what he's suppose to, letting HIM down when I fail him. <P>IT'S TOO MUCH PRESSURE.<P>It's mid-life crisis, isn't it?<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited November 09, 1999).]

Maya,<BR>Here's the link I was talking about. <A HREF="http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb922/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb922/</A> <P>I feel your pain because my W says some of the same things about not wanting to be with me. She doesn't try to meet my needs any more. She wants to be happy. She sees herself as being miserable. I can only show her God's love. Hopefully H is working on his relationship with Him to be a more loving and caring person. He probably is in his insecure phase. I still am to a very small degree in my insecure phase. I have let her know how I feel.<P>I have told her that it is okay to leave me if that is what it will take for her to be happy. Yes, it make her an unbeliever (taken in context of the verse) but it DOES NOT keep her from still becoming saved. ONLY GOD knows where we truly are in our walk with Him. We all fall and He picks us up once we see the error of our ways. Once she understands and is still not married we are to reconcil because He tells us we should. But, I have put it in His hands. I only want His will to be done.<P>It will get better. If the two of you aren't studying His word together and praying together, you might try that. You guys sound much farther along than my W and me. She won't study the Bible with me. I pray that will happen soon. I want to set the best example for our boys. My parents didn't and I didn't realize how very important it is until this year.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited November 09, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited November 09, 1999).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Go ahead .. kick me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>NOT!<P>The question about the email was more of a rhetorical question Maya. Something for you to stop & think about. Personally, I would feel the same way if it had anything to do with the om. My Wife hung around with this girl who was having problems in her marriage & who was my wife's "excuse" while going out with the om. I don't like her because she knew all about the affair. When my Wife returns, she will probably hang out with her because "she's such a friend." Friends don't encourage friends to have an affair & leave their spouse.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What don't I like about H .... I don't know ... he just bugs the crap out of me now ... I don't wanna live with him, be accountable to him, have to consciously WORK on meeting his needs, have to be "UP" all the time or else I'm questioned as to what's wrong ... and the answer is the same ol' thing .... not happy. I'm tired of trying to tiptoe around him cauz I don't wanna hurt him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmmmm? My Wife said exactly the same things before she left. When you are in love with someone, you'll bend over backwards to do these things, without ever having been asked. You don't love your H so why do any of this? Why not learn to love your H? It can be done. As K has pointed out, he seems to be Love Busting. Has he learned anything from this site or MB principles? If he is just like he was before, then nothing has changed, except you found God & seem content on "suffering" for His will.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

YOU'RE ALL MISSING THE POINT!<P>I don't WANT to love my H. I don't WANT to be with him. Period.<P>If "love is a decision", then I've decided I don't want to love him. I don't want to try to love him. I WANT OUT.<P>I personally don't feel that love is a decision.<P>The bottom line is that I stay put because I fear God. Now HOW do I justify THAT?

Maya,<BR>One more question. You H is one issue, but why can't you meet needs of kids?<P>Do you feel disconnected from them? If so, why would that be? <P>Sounds like this may be serious depression talking.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I don't do too bad with my daughters. In fact, they've both been "clinging" to me more than usual (15 and 11). They are wanting to be with me, etc. And that, of course, suffocates me ... I don't know WHY they won't be with their dad.<P>I love them dearly, but don't feel like I'm a real good mother. I look at them and tears well up because there's so much I want for them, so much I wanna be for them ... and I just feel like I fail them (and their dad) daily.<BR>

Hi Maya,<P> I'm so sorry for your pain...I'll probably get jumped on here but have you thought seriously about separating for awhile?...there was a Christian book "Hope for the Separated" which actually advocated it for some marital problems.....I don't know ...maybe you just need alot of space to work things out for yourself...Probably a very bad idea and maybe it would compound it all....I agree with K. maybe Steve Harley can help you ....it sounds like your well is so dry.....Lu

Maya,<BR>I understand that you want OUT. But why do you want out? You can still leave and be saved. There is NO justification. Your post says that you are AFRAID of what God is going to do to you if you don't stay.<P>God will continue to love you just as He loves ALL of us: saved and unsaved alike. You don't have to stay. I would still say that Jesus is the answer that you are looking for. You sound as though you feel that God has you pinned in the corner and He won't let you out. He gave us all free will to do what ever we want. He will still love you if you leave even though that is not what He wants.<P>It is OKAY TO LEAVE. He will still welcome the relationship you want and are seeking to have with Him. There had to be a time when you disobeyed yur parents. They didn't forsake you. God will never forsake you because He is a loving but just God.<P>We all stray from time to time. I still say that Jesus is the answer that you are looing for. It is not really leaving H. You appear to be searching for something that only exists in a much closer relationship with Jesus. I mean this with all the love that He has given me to pass on to you.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>You have to LOVE YOURSELF! Please forgive yourself. Jesus can help you to forgive yourself. <p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited November 09, 1999).]

Thanks Rob. I was finally able to take a breath after reading what you wrote.<P>Thank you very much.<P>I gotta get going (I'm at work). I will be back on tomorrow ....<P>I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU SO VERY MUCH!

Maya:<P>I think you really should be talking to your doctor about depression, and Steve Harley to work on your marriage.<P>Your point about staying put because it's what God wants is fine. I'd encourage you to stay put. But then DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE. You need to work with a professional who has the interests of the marriage first to see if you can save this.<P>If not, then I'd suggest separation. And if nothing changes after 12 months, divorce.<P>But I'm pretty convinced a lot of your issues stem from major-league depression. You often appear to be manic---now that could just be the way you write, but I think it speaks to the way you feel. And it's very true that you're not going to be able to achieve much of anything until you get out of that depression. But my prediction would be that a separation from your family would lead you even further downward. You need to get this under control medically (if you're doctor agrees with this internet diagnosis).<P>I don't mean to come across as picking on you---I've been here on this board since you showed up, and I have a real (virtual) fondness for you. Please take care of yourself.

You say you fear God...but, I don't understand. What are you afraid of? <P>You say you want to leave your husband but won't because of your fear of God. What's the difference between divorce papers being signed and the marriage you are in now? Don't you think God knows what's going on? Are you any less fearful of God living in a marriage where you can say..."I don't WANT to love my H. I don't WANT to be with him. Period."<P>Wouldn't God want your husband to have the opportunity to be in a marriage where his wife truly loved him? Maya, if you want out...then what are you fighting for?<P>I don't know...maybe I'm wrong...I'm not trying to attack you...but, I'm just trying to gain some understanding. How could you blame God for something that you can have control over yourself? Is God really forcing you to do something you don't want to?<P>

Holly, I fear God because -- very basically -- I wanna go to heaven. And I know the rules for going to heaven. They seems simple ... but are very complex ... yea, even HARD at times.<P>Simply faith in Jesus as God's son, sacrificed for my sin ... risen savior.<P>Very possibly this boils down to a spiritual problem all the way around.

Hi Maya<P>I've never posted to you before but I was fascinated by the length of this thread and just had to look in.<P>Going against popular opinion here, I think if you don't love your H and you don't want to be with him anymore you should leave. The principles are all very well and good, but I don't believe they can make you love someone from scratch again. If you don't want to be there, don't be there. You'd be doing both you and your H a disservice by sticking around in a loveless marriage.<P>Just my 2 cents.