Just checking on ya Vit....

Originally Posted by lurioosi2

I don't know if this fits here, but one thing to me that is a sign of true repentance is the laying aside of impatience and pride. When I truly saw what I had done and how horrific it was without any qualifications....something in me knew that there was NO room for pride, for scorekeeping about how "good" I was doing, for impatience about how long this recovery stuff was going to take. My affair rendered me unqualified to make those judgments. So when I see people who start pushing the "how long," "when is my BS going to do/stop doing this?" "I'm doing everything right, but...." agenda....I question gut level repentance. I just do. And if I do, I KNOW a BS is going to question it. It just really isn't my job to decide how long it takes someone Else to grieve.

Okay, I just needed to vent that.

WOW!!! This one is short, but it hits the nail on the head. Can someone enter this in the Notable Posts?

Just been catching up. Have a question about how your need for repentance may look to your H. I know that sounds a bit screwy and a bit off

Are you/ have you been slightly withdrawn because of it?

And may this contribute to the repentace/resentment cycle?

OR actually - that is what this is all about. or have I overthunk again?

Very good post.

I don't know if it's irony or tragedy, but the more the FWS pushes on this "how long" thing, the longer it seems to take.

Totally missed this post luri, sorry bout that cuz it looks like I dismissed it.

Agree with everyone else, this is spot on.
This could not have been written any better by a BS.

You just post whatever you want here, this an open thread! My questions that I had are answered, for now anyway.
It seems that as time goes on, as we pass through different phases of rebuilding, the questions change.

When a FWS writes their view of how a BS feels, like you did above, it validates that we are not asking for the moon,
that we are not crazy or selfish or seeking punishment from our betrayer.

I think in turn this helps BS's to stay strong in the goal of a great M, and to not tolerate anything less than what we feel
is necessary for our R from the A. We don't have to settle for mediocre, unless we choose to.

luri, aside from seeing the devastation in your M from the A, do you think that being a member here on the forum,
helped you to believe so strongly what you posted above?



broken soul, I'm good! Super, super busy right now, not much time for MB.
The patience that I thought I had, not so much anymore, haha. A plan has been laid out to my H,
and I expect results. While he does many things right, I want more right. The bar for myself is high, his needs to be too.
I don't want the average M, I want one where MB tools are used to the very best of our ability and strive to always get better
at using them. I want this with my present H.

ST, I think I understand your question, and some of where this thread has gone I think relates to that.
It's all so intertwined sometimes isn't it, for us over thinkers.
I know for myself, once I have figured out one aspect of why I feel the way I do, I can then figure out how to fix it. lol, make sense.

This forum has helped me so much....I am a quick fixer kind of person. And there is no quick fix when you bash your whole family. But I think H coming here and reading right in the beginning, even though he didn't stick around, helped too. I realize now that a lot of the "law" he laid down from the get go was straight MB. All the keylogger stuff, the passwords, militance about NC...I learned real quick that if I wanted to save this marriage, I had better not deviate. He wasn't mean about it, but when I did break NC, he just packed his bag, told me I had better not get out of bed and try to stop him, that no I DIDN'T love him or I wouldn't have done all this. Maybe this should go in the ambush thread!

Something in me knew from the moment of confession that every day he stuck around was really an act of mercy, that him forgiving me was not my concern. That doesn't make me some great person - I screwed up plenty. But I think the biggest thing for me was reading SAA. If a wayward can read SAA and NOT be broken....they need a whack in the head.

Totally agree DWG. Some take longer, with temperament and circumstances being a factor too.

Totally agree with all of this too. I think reading and posting here has more value than what we realize.
The bolded, mine, is a big one. We don't want that pressure, yet feedback is needed, in various forms.

I made posting on MB, at least in the first few weeks, a condition. I did see benefits to it. It did cause some conflict at home as well. However I still believe we would not have got thru the fog as fast or as well without it.

And for all the moaning and whining he did about MB, he now thinks its fabulous. Just wont post is all

So maybe posting on MB can speed up the repentance issue?

Or maybe its because for so long they had the OP ad friends of he A telling them whatever it was that helped them feel they were doing something ok, and coming here and having 20 odd people telling them u-huh, no way Jose` gives them pause for thought? Suddenly their surety of the rightness of the A isnt so sure.

Luri,

That post ROCKED!!!!! I love ya....

I know this might be a bit off topic, however, I would like to get your all's take on this....(sorry for the t/j Vit...though I think it is a bit related....)

All of us BS know that we aren't supposed to bring up the affair, after the details are all out. That by doing so is a LB of sorts and puts our Recovery in a bit of a hinderance.....however, how does can a BS be RH when they are dealing with triggers/thoughts/emotions yet knowing that by being RH comes with a price???

And this may sound REALLY stupid, but it has crossed my mind so many times, it drives me crazy....

Can someone explain to why/how two people involved in an affair can share with each other intimacies/stories/emotions/feelings about their spouses and it brings the affair partners CLOSER, yet when a BS asks for any such affair questions or brings it up period, it creates a distance and wedge between the married partners???.....(does that even make any sense????..... )

Not

so much to write and no time, good questions Not2fun, I know exactly what you are talking about.

back at some point.

Good question. I can't answer it myself. I have a very hard time of this and have recently (like yesterday and already failed) set one of my goals to stop it. She is so much in our lives, her court case that she tried to make GM's fault, her continual calling every 6 months or so, she now writes and comments to the paper about the political issues I am involved in (boy is it funny, this woman is either drunk when she posts or very very uneducated or both) it just seems like she is always there and even my house has triggers in it. I wish I could answer your question, it is so hard.

Not stupid at all. I would say it is relief and justification vs unpleasantness and pain.

I didn't start posting right after d-day, it was almost 4 months later, so I didn't get the full grasp of all this forum had to offer.
Had I known, reading here, at the very least would have been a prerequisite for returning home.
You were smart lil.

I'm thinking yeah, it certainly has a positive influence, and it's not just us BS's saying the same thing, it's also spouses who have been in their shoes.

We've had discussions about this over here in R, I can't point you to a specific thread, I just know that we have.
I think there is a difference between bringing the A up to just simply rehash old garbage and bringing up the A because their is unfinished business.
Triggers will be with us for some time, we can do our best to avoid them and distract ourselves, nonetheless, they still do happen.
Using RH, not brutal honestly to discuss how the triggers/thoughts/emotions make us feel/reasons behind them, to me is not paying the price, unless our spouse gets defensive.

I think that any talk of the A should fade over time, as the business of the A fades away, and as we heal from the initial wounds.
If the motive is to constantly remind the FWS of their action, that has to stop. If the motive is to continue moving forward in R, emotions should go on the table.
The next step then would be to figure out why the BS is feeling that way. To fix it, it has to be discussed with the FWS, since they are the ones who can help to fix it.
I know for myself, I can't bury something for very long without exploding, so I'd rather get it out on that table, fix it and get on to the next round.


I think when two AP talk to each other about their BS's, it's their own perceived victimess or victimism (no idea if that's a word) in their own M. Maybe they feel a bond cuz they
believe that they are the only ones that are so lonely and desperate for affuction. Twisted thinking. Their being victims is the bond that binds them. I think that is what happened with my H and OW anyway.

hmm, the second part of this question about creating distance ...... maybe this depends on the motive for bringing it up, RH vs brutal. Is what is being talked about done without lovebusting.
Actually, that would be the trick in the first question you asked too. If the A cannot be talked about in a rational, non lovebusting way, it shouldn't be discussed.
But then the question is how come it can't. Is it cuz the BS just can't control it due to wanting to hurt the FWS, or is it cuz the FWS is not repentant and simply wants
the whole mess swept under the rug.

Bingo. You should avoid bringing up questions about the affair that you can answer yourself by referencing the Three States of Marriage and Exclusive Needs-Meeting. You also don't want to ever use the affair as a weapon to get your way in an argument, because then it starts serving a useful purpose, and you're more likely to keep making Love Bank withdrawals as a result.

But sharing your feelings about what's happened? ABSOLUTELY. You can, should, and MUST share your feelings with your spouse so they know exactly what you're going through. But you must figure out a way to do so that isn't condemning, disrespectful, or angry.

That's hard.

That's a big part of what learning to live the MarriageBuilders way is about: being radically honest without Love-Busting.

So you're generalizing a bit too much when you say the MarriageBuilders way is to not bring up the affair. That's incorrect.

Once you're in recovery, you should avoid bringing up questions about the affair that you can answer yourself. You should avoid engaging in any Love Busters when discussing the affair. And because you recognize such discussions generally result in Love Bank withdrawals despite such precautions, you minimize discussion of the affair within reason. It's important not to delay Radical Honesty for a convenient time, but if you are besieged with questions, it may be useful to evaluate if you can hang onto them a day or two to see if you can answer them yourself.

And if you do so, be Radically Honest with your spouse about your personal struggle. Don't make them access the memory banks that contain their affair, but do deposit Love Units by your openness and honesty about your personal struggles with the fallout from their actions.

So you spend 6.9 of 7 days a week meeting one another's emotional needs, avoiding Love Busters, and building a great, big Love Bank balance. If you need to take 15 minutes a week -- painful as it might be -- to be honest about your struggles to your spouse, do it. Be Radical, not Brutal.

Very sage advice, DNM. Thanks for the reminder.

I agree with DNM. Being radically honest is indeed totally lovebank positive for me.

I really like to think that if J was triggering, or suddenly realised he had been internally battling with something A related that he would bring it up with me. I know that I would give him/repeat any truth and ask him what it still is that he needs from me.

However... if his discussion on the subject came up in form of AO or DJ that would indeed be LBing.

BUMP

Vittoria, I wanted to thank you for posting this as it has put into my words the disquiet going on in my head. It is only 5 months and 11 days since dday for me and we have barely scratched the surface of recovery. While my WH has apologized and I do see remorse in him, I have not seen any sort of repentance in him.

I am terrified that that will still be the case a year from now, or 2 years from now.

So thank you, for reminding me of a very important part of the healing process and that no matter how much I want my WH to come home, I don't have to rush it.

OK, didn't realize that this thread is 2 years old so thank you SunnyD for bumping

I thought it was very pertinent given all I've been reading lately!