How do you feel about Christian church sermons? We go to a great church, non-denominational, and today's message was really good and I think pertinent to you, Zhamila. It will be rebroadcast at 6pm eastern today, and again at 10pm, and at some time on Wednesday. Here: http://www.northpointonline.tv/

It's really like a cross between a sermon and a motivational speech. I recommend you watch it and think about YOU and YOUR PART, but your husband may enjoy it, too. I just caution you to not plunk him down and demand he watch it.

Do you guys go to church? If not, have you talked about it? We have found it very beneficial for us. Of course, we go to a church where today, the first thing was a 'climate montage' by the band with songs including "It's Raining Men" and "Purple Rain." I grew up in churches with choirs, not real rock and roll!

IF you want H to watch it, too, tell him some woman online told you that you ought to see this and consider how you, Zhamila, affect the climate in your house. His curiosity will about kill him! lol.

If you don't get to see it today, it will eventually be archived for viewing anytime.

Touche, CWMI. Yes. I'll do that in the future.

I'm not sure about this. One hour a week isn't getting us there fast enough, and I am end-of-rope frustrated. You are telling me to live in a crappy relationship, but totally avoid talking about it?

I think your advice would work great for a totally committed spouse who is dying to save her relationship and is in love with a reluctant H. I am not that spouse. I'm not seeing that the benefits are outweighing the pain here. We're in week 4 of coaching, I've been doing my part and keeping it clean. It's taking way too long and I recorded us out of desperation yesterday.

I'm also not sure that SH has told us NOT to talk relationship at all. I'll ask him next session. (Wednesday) In fact, everything I hear from Dr. Harley is, "don't stop complaining, just make sure you are free of DJs, etc" - which I have been.

I'm gonna have to really think about your advice, CWMI. I'm not saying "no" just, not sure. I'll listen to the sermon.

Enjoy the sermon. I swear, it's not preachy! I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on it afterwards, if you're up to sharing them.

I think it was Dr. Phil who said, "If all you talk about is your problem relationship, you'll have a problem relationship." Well of course, us wimmin want to talk things to death, because that's how we work things out and fix things, verbally. But guys are different; they like to do. Not talk about doing.

You have a much greater need for conversation than your husband does, so in order to get your need met, you have to make it pleasant for him. With some ingenuity, you can actually have 'relationship talks' without actually talking about the relationship. Talk about people you admire, ask him about who he admires and why. Talk about things you've always wanted to try but were scared, ask him about his.

Why are you here, and why are you coaching with Steve, if you are not totally committed? Why is it you, instead of your H, here? Is this more of your self-deluding? Work on that, girlie!

OK, I went back and read everything from the beginning of this thread.

First, I want to say "thank you" to so many who have given me encouragement and advice. It's helped me stay focused, and given me hope that things could be repaired.

Second, I see the up-and-down cycle we're on. I guess we didn't get here overnight, and we probably won't get fixed overnight. I also see clearly how our sessions with Steve really make a difference in my motivation to keep going.

So now I'm gonna listen to the sermon, CWMI. And read Loves2011's latest (hope you're doing ok out there!) And I'm gonna try to make it til Wednesday, try to do my checklist even though I really.don't.want.to.

And I really hope Anointed is ok. Has anyone heard from her? I'm worried....


Happy Mother's Day

Keep your thoughts positive. Remember feelings follow actions. I've noticed when you have a session with Steve you're very positive in the "I'm going to work hard and we will get through this" then when he does something you don't like, you get discouraged.

We all understand and have been there, but you can be your worse enemy. Steve Harley has often said the BS can be the biggest burden for a recovery. You're in the same boat.

Stay focused and do work. You'll reap the benfits of MB whether you save your M or save yourself.

OK CWMI - Love the sermon! I'm gonna ask the question: "What's it like to be on the other side of me?" and bring it to God.

BrainHurts - thanks for the insight. You're right, I go from being encouraged to being deeply discouraged. I'm not sure how to stop doing this, 'cause the pain is, well...painful. I withdraw and close up because it hurts so much, which is probably a healthy response. I don't want to keep being abused.

I will keep trying, focusing and doing my work.

Have you tried ADs?

Hi BrainHurts - Good question: actually I started ADs right as we started counseling with Steve. They've helped a ton (believe it or not), in that I'm not overwhelmed by feelings of hopelessness all the time.

I've got lots to be thankful for: 3 wonderful children, a great job, beautiful home, neighborhood and neighbors.

Last night was nice. H and I had a conversation before bed, and I felt safe and cared for. He even made the effort not to turn his back to me to go to sleep. Those little things mean a lot.

I asked my H last night, "What's it like to be living on the other side of me?"

At first he said, "It's all pleasant." I teased him and said, "No, no...you can tell me what you really think."

He said mostly pleasant, but challenging. That I have strong opinions - he knows I'm smart and study lots of things, 'cause that's what I enjoy doing - but he thinks it would be nice if I were more open to others' opinions, even if they haven't done all the thinking/analyzing, etc.

I said, "Wow, thanks for telling me! I'll work on that!" - then we had a really fun conversation about nature v. nuture, and he really got me to think about things differently. It was fun.

I'm sure you're sighing at the "romance" of a philosophical discussion before bedtime....but it was really fun! We both got some love unit deposits last night.

Thanks for the sermon, CWMI. How do I see next week's? It sounded like it would be a good one.

I had a feeling you would enjoy it and get something out of it! You can just return to that link next Sunday for the second part.

Thanks! Will do.

Z- I am the one that did the audio recording. I told my husband that I was doing it and kept it on in front of him the entire time. My H wouldn't really admit that he had AOs prior to doing this so it was more a matter of trying to create some self awareness, which could be construed as me trying to educate him and a DJ. He was surprised at how many mean things he said, how loud he was, and how long it lasted. He didn't realize any of that while it was happening so I feel like it had the impact I was hoping for. I deleted it right away and in front of him.

Also, as calm as I sounded on the recording, there were several times when I should have just stopped talking. Me saying things like, "You need to relax, I want to have a normal conversation with you" was just egging him on. I have listened to it a few times now and I think that even though I was not yelling or saying mean things, I was still contributing in making things worse. I needed to just say, "We'll talk when you calm down" and then not say anything else. It is so easy to paint ourselves as the one doing everything right, but we still have responsibility in these situations.

On another topic, I believe that Dr. Harley recommends picking just one or two things that bug us and complain about those, but not too often - like once per week. If we say it the nicest way possible three times per day, it's still going to feel like an SD.

CWMI, I would like to see the sermon, is there someplace that I can watch it OnDemand?

It won't be available at all times until after Wednesday, maybe even until after the next one, but here is a collection of past ones if any of them interest you:

http://www.brownsbridge.org/messages

Thanks Penni, I couldn't remember where I heard the idea from!

Good point that your H knew about it and still AO'd. Did he enthusiastically agree to record? I did it to learn: I wanted to know what we'd both sound like. I also needed to see that I'm not crazy, there are some serious issues and I wanted to hear what was really going on.

I noticed that I went on and on about one particular topic. It made me realize what my H calls "lecturing." So I've become much more aware of that and am working to eliminate it.

In the end - it was not POJA. I did something my H was not enthusiastic about (and didn't ask him ahead of time, so IB). I'll have to apologize & not repeat it.

As to complaining, I'm still noodling it. I'm going to ask Steve about it in our next session.

When you discuss things that deeply interest you, and how you feel about them, that is intimate conversation.

For instance; simply talking about music you like is intimate conversation.

It might not seem like it, but it is. And all of those emotions that are conjured up talking about those things, the associated memories, the exchange of memories... those feelings become associated with your conversational partner--- in other words, LB$ deposits are made!

Don't dismiss those conversations! They are the crux of UA time!

Totally agree, HHH!

The nature v nuture was an intimate conversation & put units in my bank, big time. And it wasn't about our "feelings" - so I think it was more comfortable for my H, too.

It was the best convo we've had in 2 months - the last 'great' one was about free will v predestination. Now we're doing research with some friends on tithing in the New Testament...it's been fostering some fun conversations, too.

Anyway, good point, and we'll work on having those kinds, as long as he enjoys them as much as I do.

OK, after a couple of good days, something scary happened tonight.

I went upstairs after dinner - felt a little ill. Invited my H & the kiddos to come and hang out with me, I was just going to rest. After a few minutes I heard a 'thud' and my son (7) crying. I ran downstairs, afraid he'd fallen.

My H had dragged him off the couch and dropped him on the floor a few feet away.

My son and daughter (10) had been arguing over the computer, so my H stepped in (even though we've AGREED that he doesn't discipline the children) and took matters into his own hands. Needless to say, I was upset. I comforted the children first and asked them what happened, how did they get hurt. They explained it, and then I tried to talk to my H, who was sitting back at the table on his computer.

I asked him what happened: he was angry, aggressive and defensive. He said he "had" to do what he did, because my DS was kicking my DD. (ok, he's 7, she's 10, she can walk away...I get that it's wrong, but not dangerous). I asked why he didn't call me to intervene - "They were being physically violent and I was PROTECTING your DD!" - glaring, finger pointing, yelling.

I said, "Please go take a drive and cool off." He refused. I said it again, "You are making me feel unsafe. Go take a drive."

"That's a demand!" he said. I said, "You are acting unsafe, and I want you to leave the house for a while." He refused, this is his house, he's not going anywhere, etc.

I don't remember who brought up calling the cops. I went upstairs, called the children into my room, locked the door and called Steve first. No answer, left a message. I wasn't sure what to do.

I called the police and they came. In the meantime H had driven away and returned while they were interviewing the children and me.

I filed a report, and haven't yet decided whether to press charges. They said it would be 3rd degree assault (pretty minor) - and unless he has a record of domestic violence/assault, were not sure how the prosecutor would handle the case. H has had incidents before, but I don't think any were ever charged/filed. The police gave me a list of domestic violence resources and told me it's up to me whether I want to press charges.

H is sleeping downstairs, I'm locked in the bedroom. I don't like having him here tonight, but didn't necessarily want to file a restraining order/kick him out, etc without talking to Steve. (next session, tomorrow at 6 am)

I'm going to find out from Steve whether this is serious enough to press charges? I don't know. I'm afraid I'm overreacting, but we have had tons of disagreements about his discipling the children....I don't want him doing it, and CERTAINLY not yanking them and dropping them on the floor. He's done things like this before with my children: manhandling them, shoving or grabbing them. I hate it.

I'm just not sure what to do next. I'm sure Steve will have some suggestions.