If that's true, it's a bit shocking given that she has been here since 2006.

People have tried to help her with POJA before over the years.

Darn tootin' ... because when reading about Lovebusters and fully understanding what it is about ... there is really only one absolute: it isn't our job to force someone to conform to our beliefs...

My husband said: tough, it's like that. So i packed the work i need to do today and i am going to a friend's house. He promises more of the same, doesn't matter if i'm not happy about it. I can't any hope. Do you know how it work woth Dr Harley, can u consult on skype? I am French, in France

lorraine, have you fully thought through the practicalities and goal of leaving your H? It is a mistake to leave in a fury, only to regret it and to have to go back later. You are harming the marriage by having an angry outburst (on steroids) and harming your credibility if you have to go back. Have you got somewhere to live long-term? What will you do when when your friend gets fed-up of having you in her house - which she will? Aren't you still liable for your share of the bills at your house? Do you have enough money to live on if he stops supporting you?

If you are going to end up going back, then do so now, apologise for your outburst and try to talk about POJA (even if you don't call it that) and how you are going to resolve differences in your marriage from now on. You could ask him whether he'd agree to jointly consulting with the Harleys.

About your question on consultation: the Harley coaching centre offers telephone consultations. These are done by Dr Harley's children, Steve Harley and Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers. They are not done by Dr Harley himself. My understanding is that they do not use Skype. I asked about this for the online course, because I need the occasional phone call with my coach, and they do not use Skype. So, in addition to the cost of the phone call, you will have to pay $200 for the hour's consultation with Steve or Jennifer.

The alternative to this is the online course (I am doing this), in which you are set weekly lessons to take you through the MB course on meetings emotional needs, POJA, avoiding love busters etc. The couple does the written work at home (and practices the behaviour in the marriage) and reports back to the coach (Kim or Sandy; trained by Dr Harley) each week. A new lesson plan is devised for the following week. Dr Harley supervises Kim and Sandy, and you can post to him on the private forum here at MB if you need his targeted help at a specific problem.

So you can do either form of "coaching" from anywhere in the world. I am in the UK and doing the online course. The cost of that is about $1000, including Dr HArley's published books, workbooks for the weekly exercises, DVDs and the coaching.

I think that your marriage desperately needs the year-long course because it clearly has ingrained bad habits that you and your H need to unlearn, and you need a coach to push you to do the work and keep you accountable. However, I think you urgently need a phone consultation also, to help with this crisis. You could try paying for one hour, then using the first 30 minutes yourself to talk to Steve or Jennifer in private, then try and get your H to take the remaining 30 minutes. He needs to be sold on the benefits of POJA and they are the people to sell it to him.

Do you really think that your H has chosen to have your daughter's partner visit the home even if that means you leave him for good?

I'm wondering whether this crisis is really about your daughter's partner, or whether it is about much deeper unhappiness with the marriage as a whole. I suspect the latter.

Lorraine,

I am sorry your husband is being so insensitive to your needs and emotional wellness.
I also agree if you can get some help from the harley's it could help you and your family.
This is a difficult relationship for all of the family to navigate, how is your relationship with your daughter? Do you have other children? If you do what is their view on this?
It is very hard to stand up for your own value system in a family sometimes I'm going to guess you are bruised already with your husband's lack of consideration and the feeling of being disrespected.
You don't want to lose your family so you have to start to brainstorm how you can have everyone respected.
Can you sit down with your daughter and come to some agreement and then ask your husband to respect the choices you two come to.
You can explain he can have the relationship he wants with your daughter and her partner. Tell him you will gladly make time away so he can spend the time he wishes with them when he needs.
Is this new in the family? How long have you had to digest this situation.
Love your daughter and as adults you should work out respecting each others choices. Even if they are different at the core working out something acceptable for all of you
As far as your husband he is being unfair and quite mean he needs to be more sensitive to you as his wife, he is trying to force that's not right.
This is no different then any other problem when you work them out in a marriage, your daughter is an adult and should also be able to sit down inside the family unit and listen and compromise
Stick around and become stronger it's a difficult situation with a few issues going on at the same time
Nothing is impossible

jessi, I hate to contradict but this is entirely against POJA. The agreement needs to be made FIRST between lorraine's H and her, and THEN they need to ask their daughter to respect the choices THEY have come to.

Making an agreement with her daughter and then asking her H to respect it is as as bad as his making an agreement with their daughter and presenting to her as a fait accompli - the source of this rupture in their marriage. IB is the problem that they are trying to overcome, and her coming to a decision with their daughter about their marriage is IB!

PoJA, whole PoJA, and nothing but POJA.

The orientation of an adult child is the problem of that child.

What happens within the marital home is the subject of PoJA.

Nothing more, nothing less.

L,

You stated your major issue; you don't stand up for yourself. This means that you allow your FWH to Love Bust without notification. It likely also means you do not make your needs known to him. Which suggests that you are probably in a state of withdrawal... Which means that you aren't going to make your needs known or tell your husband about his Love Busters - and if you do either, it would likely be through Angry Outbursts, Selfish Demands, and Disrespectful Judgements.


The best thing for you to do would be to tell your daughter to back off for a while so you and your H can concentrate on restoring romantic love in your marriage.

PoJA is much easier with two spouses who are in love, rather than in withdrawal/conflict.

Sugarcane,
You are right her husband does not seem to be to interested in her interests here.
My guess is she has already tried many times to have a conversation with her husband and he has refused to respect her feelings and needs.
I guess I was thinking Lorraine and her husband could just agree to have their own relationships with their daughter.
Lorraine separately and her husband with the daughters partner included.
And then they could work out the respectful logistics of that.
I guess I was wrong in my thinking about poja, I guess I should have said maybe she could get to an agreement with her husband first and then also have a loving conversation with her daughter making sure they could come to some respectful place about each others feelings and values.
Of course her relationship with her husband has to come first and then as adults they all should be able to work out the details.
I'm sorry I misspoke and I apologize to Lorraine.
I know how difficult this situation can be it has happened as well in my family with different feelings and values.
One family has worked out a compromise one family has exploded
I will pray her husband finds his way back to respecting his wife, I hope they can counsel with the Harley's
I guess I am still in the learning process myself

It was not an angry outburst on my part, i left so that he can receive my daughter and her partner without me, i didnt shout or anything of the kind, i just said i am going while there are there and i'll come back later. I certainly dont intend to impose my presence on my friend. Also i have to do my work for tomorrow. I dont feel any anger, i feel depressed.

Sorry lorraine, I misread "I packed the work I need to to day" as somehow meaning you packed your bags and moved out. Big mistake on my part!

Well, you've updated us today and corrected my error, but you haven't really responded to any of the advice you have been given about POJA and getting Harley help. Do you think any of our advice is useful? Do you intend to act on any of it?

Is your solution in the future going to be to leave the house when your H allows your daughter's partner to visit?

If that's the solution that you are happy with, then problem solved. In my opinion it would be good if you learned to use POJA so that IB is eliminated and other conflicts resolved, but if you are happy with things as they now stand, then that's fine.

Sorry i am using a cellphone, not practical and it is night time here now, so thank u i'll read all u have written tomorrow night. As somebody said it is a state of withdrawal i am in.

whoops, i must have been thinking of someone else! sorry OP!