Ya NeverGuessed, what Hopeful Hubby said...

I get ya NG (OK I don't always get ya, sometimes I can't even decipher if your posts are English or not...but this time, I get ya). I feel like I have learned SO MUCH over the last couple of months. Yet, I am a big effortless loser in my own recovery. I won't argue with you on that.

I feel like I walked down the aisle with someone who was just along for the ride. I feel like I have been married to someone who was just along for the ride. I want to feel like I am working on recovery with someone who ISN'T just along for the ride. Do you get my drift on this? How do I get past this? I don't want to be with someone who could give or take me.

Oh, quit being a martyr.

Your husband's infidelity was inexcusable. The worst thing that could happen to you... but, you have had a CHOICE since your discovery - to find and learn a program of recovery and work it, or to divorce.

BOTH spouses have responsibilities in a marriage, and BOTH spouses have a responsibility if they are to recover a marriage and affair-proof it after infidelity.

You've been content - for weeks - to sit here and complain about your husband... but, what is YOUR part in this recovery? What are YOU doing to restore romantic love in your marriage?

You've been here far to long to have to have the BASIC CONCEPTS of this program hammered at you time and time again.

You say you've LEARNED? What have you APPLIED?

If you've learned so much, then what you are doing at this point is like having a PHD in Astrophysics, but choosing to work as a bagger in a grocery store.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_habit.html

^

Get to work on that.


Quit whining about your husband and start putting all that you've "learned" to action, sister.

UW. This is a new thing for both of you. He may well need time to adjust.

You can't have a good marriage to someone who isn't willing to put in the time to make one. That means, after a certain point if things dont change you make a decision:

stay in a bad marriage where ENs are not getting met (and you are not in love)

leave

That is the bottom line.

I need to stop posting on this thread and lurking in the forums for awhile. I don't want to be a martyr, and I certainly don't want to whine. I'm just sad, and frustrated. Guess I just want more out of a man who clearly has no intention of giving it, but I guess I knew that a couple months ago and shouldn't have wasted everyone's time.

God bless all you couples where both parties are 100% invested in this process, clearly that is not the case for us. I am not 100% invested in recovery. I am hesitant, to say the least, for a multitude of reasons. And frankly, I just don't care about saving this as much as I once did. I think it would take very little on his part to turn that around, but I am waiting for some kind of inspiration that is obviously not going to happen.

You are 100% right kerala, I have a decision to make.

You all have a great summer.

i think you have invested alot of time and effort to try to recovery whats a bit more, you need to feel that when/if you leave you did all that you could and more.

if you know my story you know that i was TT for a few months, during that time i felt that i was draggin him thru this and yes i was, why.... because he didnt tell me the whole truth.... so i guess he was felling like why should i try, when she find out the real truth she will be gone (confirmed this feeling). this went on for months. then there were the feelings of guilt and shame....

i scheduled the poly not him, i would never leave it in H hands. there is no way he would have done it himself, why?? because he wasnt done lying. so do step one and schedule it for him.

then after the poly was done, H was still dragin his feet, and then i had to have the "are you all in conversation".

for a long time i have been the one pushing us thru all of this, but really someone has to do it. it is hard to do every day, but at least i know if things change and we fail at this i gave it my all and i have no regrets at all.

what would the inspiration that you need look like?

i wouldnt go away regardless.

I am not 100% invested in recovery...I just don't care about saving this as much as I once did.

That was probably very hard to type, kiddo. It is a credit to your progress to be able to recognize, and admit, this problem. It has been obvious to many of us for awhile that your enlistment was not wholehearted.

The next question, of course, would be, "Why?" The possible elements are legion for a BS to no longer feel "it" for a FWS.

Two that come to mind are:

- A change in EN priority, resulting from knowledge of the spouse's infidelity, resulting in an EN which is not highly supplied by the spouse, but not vital before the A, now being conspicuous by its absence. A good example of this would be "security/trust". When a now-BS needs a greater supply of this, and the life-styles/actions of the couple was never organized to facilitate it (job hours/type, emotional barriers), the new dearth can loom huge as a recovery roadblock.

- The absolute termination of expectation of certain EN satisfaction entirely as a result of the fallout of a WS's infidelity. Where the BS knew that being with the WS pre-affair would result in EN#1, that is now viewed as being no longer to be expected to be exchanged. (This was big in my case, in which pre-A I knew my bride to be "perfect", and enjoyed my association with such an ideal. After d-night....not so much!)

Think about these ideas, UW. I believe I could hypothesize about what is missing from your EN menu, but it would be more valuable if you brought it forward yourself.

This is a marathon, not a sprint.

But, you are right; if you sit around waiting for inspiration, it ain't going to happen. It just ain't. You don't go from having a wayward spouse to magically having a great marriage by sitting on your butt waiting for the wayward to do the work. And if they did? You still can't continue to sit on your butt and let them do all the work.


That's just not how this program works. And this program DOES work.


YOU have to make the decision to BE the inspiration for your marriage.


Those who have progressed in recovery didn't do so by sitting around and harumphing about what their (F)WS did or didn't do. And, in fact, many a betrayed spouse put a TON of effort into winning their spouses back from their wayward mindset before they expected ANYTHING from them.


You keep putting the cart before the horse, and you know what it results in!


I empathize with betrayal. With hurt. With pain. With sadness. With anger. With resentment.


I DO NOT sympathize with inaction.


You can either begin to manage your injuries, or you can continue to lie there kicking and screaming about it being unfair. It won't get you very far. If you peek around these forums enough, you'll see it. There are people who have been around here for YEARS kicking and screaming about their spouse and excusing their own inaction or improper action... and their marriages are just as wrecked as day 1 of them being here.

Some have taken to the point that their spouses are in no way interested in this program because it has become a cudgel for the upset spouse.

This program is designed to benefit BOTH spouses, and it's proper use provides motivation to BOTH spouses.


Don't wanna hang around the forums? Pony up and do a few phone sessions, as obviously you can't find "motivation" here... let the pros do it.

[video:youtube][/video]


Yeah... thought of you when I saw this, too.

That was actually not hard to write at all. I also have known for a long time that my enlistment was not wholehearted. Frankly, I read thread after thread and wonder how CAN a BS wholeheartedly enlist in recovery with a less than enlisted WS??? Even if the WS pulls out ALL THE STOPS and does whatever they need to do to win back their betrayed spouse, I would imagine most BS's are not wholeheartedly enlisted in the process, much less if the WS doesn't respond in that fashion.

WHY. Well NG, if you have some compelling thoughts on this please, be my guest. I have to admit I had to re read your 'suggestions' a few times and I am still trying to figure out what the heck you are saying...so, spell it out for me will ya?

I would guess...1) I still am not convinced that I am not going to get a phone call, knock on the door, etc. only to find out there are more EA's, PA's, etc. that I don't know about. 2) LB is depleted to next to nothing levels and H is not making much effort to fill that up again. 3) I just need to see that he WANTS me, wants to make me happy, right his wrongs, heal my pain, make amends, have me in his life, and all that jazz. I need that. If he was ever in an ongoing A, and said ILBINILWY like some WS's have said, it would only take once and I would be gone. I can't STAND the thought of being with someone who does not admire and want to be with me 100%, even though clearly I have been. I don't know why but to me that is paramount.

Just to name a couple roadblocks to my wholehearted enlistment. I'm sure I could find more.

But please NG, if you have suggestions to the ROADBLOCKS, to helping to enlist me, please share them. I can get beat up in a million ways about not doing the work, but that doesn't help me WANT to do the work. Guess that is my problem, more or less.

I am not looking for motivation from YOU, the vets or the posters on these forums. I am looking for motivation and inspiration from H, I guess.

I feel you have been unfair to me HHH. I am trying. I am here. I am reading, and I am educating myself. I have set up EP's for MYSELF as well as for H, changed my entire mindset on OS friendships and boundaries and wholeheartedly incorporated them into my lifestyle, amongst other things. I have made many changes to my life, working hard to fill EN's in ways that I never have before, and avoid LB's whenever possible. I have made the conscious choice to let go of much of the resentment I started this thread with. I have failed in the UA time and continue to fail, but I cannot spend UA time by myself, that DOES take two people to mastermind as do many other parts of this recovery process, and I cannot be responsible for the other party who, is NOT on here seeking advice and is NOT working as hard to salvage this as I am. So please, be nice. I would not say NeverGuessed is a wishy washy candycoater, but he never makes me feel like just checking out the way that you do. Just sayin.

OK that is going to warrant some name calling such as that I am a whiney drama queen having a pity party, or something like that. Just trying to tell you it impacts me, and not in a 'hrm he must have something to say, listen up' sort of way.

That's not me. I DO expect something back. I don't know how much I am willing to do to 'inspire' this marriage without as much or more coming from the man who destroyed it in the first place. He should WANT to make amends, and be willing to do what it takes to get that. And if he's not, then thats that. That's where I am.

PS We had a phone session once with Steve. Didn't go so well, not well at ALL. It was at a time H was still actively trickle truthing me and I knew it, Steve supported him and made me feel like the bad guy for not wanting to go all in with recovery, why would I do that when I knew he was still actively lying to me??? I felt totally backed into the corner, the lies were not addressed, just my inability to wholeheartedly enlist in the recovery process, which was a crock because there WAS no recovery just more lies. I am just a little bit turned off to more phone counciling after that.

Truth. When do I say that moving forward isn't about moving forward in this marriage? I guess that's the crossroads. I don't want to point the finger of blame at anyone else for not being where I want to be, and I also don't want to waste anymore time.

Thanks Chickadee. I just don't have it in me to force him to prove anything to me anymore. I see this as his OPPORTUNITY to prove that he has come clean, he can take it or leave it. If he leaves it then that is that. That is my answer. I see me staying with him as an opportunity for HIM to win me back, not the other way around. I know I am being totally stubborn about that, its just how I feel. I know its an approach that will likely lead me to D, and at this point, I don't care, because if I recovered by putting 100% in and just bringing him along for the ride, then thats not good enough for me.

If I left today I would have no regrets. He cheated on me less than 2 yrs into our marriage. He lied to me for a decade. I stayed, when I didn't have to, and gave him a CHANCE to redeem himself and redeem this marriage. I was willing to put 100% into recovery IF HE WAS. He has not taken that opportunity. He should have regret for that, not me.

So apparently what you've tried for the past decade hasn't worked. You aren't willing to do MB, and you said you'd have no regrets.

So then, why are you still in it?

I didn't know I was in recovery for a decade, because I did not know about the A until a year and a half ago. But you are right that our M sucked, and everything I tried failed, and I did not have the benefit of knowing about MB.

I AM willing to do MB. I am NOT willing to do MB BY MYSELF, without the enthusiastic participation of my WH. Let us not dilute that fact. His action DOES inspire me. When he puts 1% in I put 10% in happily. And his inaction, well, clearly that does the opposite.

No, I would not have regrets.

I am still here, I guess, because I hold on to some minute teensy tiny little shred of hope that somewhere inside of him he will man up and make this right. I don't know why, after so long of inaction on his part, I believe that is possible, but I still do. Guess I am a fool for that.

Why not write Dr. Harley?

Have you given him clear expectations and he has not met them? So maybe it's time to prepare for Plan B?

Marriage Builders is not a marriage at all costs you know?

Even Dr. Harley has told wulffpak_girl (the FWW) to separate and Plan B her BH because her BH will not engage in recovery.

Have I given him clear expectations? That is a VERY good question BH. We have set up EP's and boundaries. I have implemented them in my own life and made sure he knew they were 100% expected to be implemented in his life. As in, NO OS friends, nothing other than minimal business contact really, complete and total transparency, etc. There's no messing around with this, no room for error. He has followed these things to a T and we often discuss them. There's no mixed messages here, I hear about another woman that I have even an inkling might be more than minimal business contact and that's that. And I expect the same from him.

The rest is...fuzzy.

The fuzziness comes from my own lack of desire. I have spurts of energy, where I am focused, determined, relentless at recovering this. But when he pushes back that turns around VERY quickly. I am clear about the fact that I will not be in the same marriage I have been in for the last decade. That if things don't change and we don't recover this I am leaving. I don't think he believes me though.

I guess his confusion is, can he get away with standard quo, bare minimum, and remain married to me? History would say YES. Will I really require more from him, require a strict recovery plan or leave him? History would say NO. Hrm. Never thought about it this way. Guess I am just blogging you an answer but that is a lightbulb moment for me. That my lack of desire to recover has been a message to him that I do not require recovery. Interesting indeed.

He knows I want more. He knows he is doing a substandard maintenance job, not a recovery job. He knows that many, many things still take precedence over recovery for him. Does he know EXACTLY what I expect? No, he might not. I have never said he needs to post on here, or that we HAD to do the online program to have accountability, or that we needed to do our at home program X nights a week, etc. I have suggested all of those things, gotten resistance, and just said screw it. I have not maintained my energy for doing UA time, and in fact get in funks where I could care less about it. I have maintained my stance on a poly, but often say I am resentful we have to pay for it, or hate talking about it, or am resistant to help him find a polygrapher, or whatever. I resist. Because I just want him to DO IT, and not have to be told to do it. I am really failing at this aren't I? IDK. How do I force myself to just keep driving ahead. I feel like I had resentment but energy when I started this thread, and as time goes on I am losing both and replacing them with indifference.

On a side note, last week we had a discussion about UA time not being met, and he said he is stressed every day because he feels like its an obligation and he knows he is failing on it and I will be on his case about it. Not in those words. I reminded him spending time with me was supposed to be a GOOD thing, not an obligation to stress him out. Frankly I think SF stresses him out, because he feels like I am never satisfied. Subsequently that continues to suffer. Thus, the negativity on my part, there is a direct correlation I find. Certainly things like that make me lose a little energy to work towards us spending UA time together.

I don't even know what to write to Dr H. I want to stay married, want a good M, but just have no desire to do the work. My H says he wants to be married, wants a good M, but also doesn't have the desire to do the work. What do we do??? Um, might as well write that to a chimp at the zoo. Come on HHH I called myself out that time before you had a chance too.

Plan B is not for me. It is either find a way to adjust my attitude and turn this around, or Plan D. Those are the only options. I don't have a reason to Plan B this really, I just need to make a decision.

Fantastic. You found out your attitude stinks.


Now, what are you going to do about it?



I can promise to keep being a pain in the butt if you keep coming back. And, if you can improve that stinking 'tude (with your husband, not with me - your attitude with me don't matter for spit cause we ain't married) maybe he'll improve his.

THAT is the reward.

THAT is the ultimate back-pat.



Or, you can keep wasting all of our time, when there are people who WANT to save their marriages, who WILL do the work who are here waiting.



Let me give you the secret to adjusting your attitude; QUIT BULL$#!++ING AND DO IT.

UW, while I was formatting a difficult set of questions for you, you pre-empted my asking them with the content of this most recent posting.

You don't like the state of your marriage; you surmise that your spouse is of the same mind. Neither of you evidently wants to expend the effort to improve your marriage, so there you both sit.



Now that I got that out of my system, let's explore a bit more, and following the maxim that the best place to begin is at the beginning, we'll attempt to establish the state of your marriage in the past.

Who pursued who, and why?
Did you each decide to marry out of...convention? boredom? duty?...or was there passion for the other at some time?
Pre-discovery, were you as tepid toward him as you are now? (It would probably be correct to presume some amount of ennui on his part leading up to his affair, but you might ask him that exact question.)
If there were marked disinvolvement on your parts before his affair, can you detect any objective cause - death of family member, job disruption, home-base change - or LACK of change in any area?
Have either/both of you been checked for chronic depressive symptoms?

In business school marketing class there was a term that you should probably be considering. It's BATNA, for Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement. Consider where you and he are right now. If you each decline to take positive action, would the resulting marital situation be something you could endure? If not, dissolution is likely, right? If so, would a life of single existence be preferable to re-marriage? Because in that case, you might well find yourself right back here (intellectually, if not actually) trying to kick-start that relationship.

Sorry for only having questions, not answers, but frankly, your apathy for your own life is something alien to my whole existence.

OK let me ask you this. If the LB is depleted, and I am just creeping up to indifference, how do I WILL myself to give it my all. Or do I just go through the actions without the sentiment? Sometimes I do that, like last night, and it caused problems when H said 'whats wrong' and I said 'nothing dear' and just did the actions without the sentiment, and he felt I was not O&H and disengaged from me, and that just made things oh so much worse. I am TRYING to do the right thing. But the energy that I once had is GONE. How do I change that. Stop calling me names and telling me what a bad attitude I have and give me some method to change it. I don't want to be indifferent, I just am. It took a long time to get here but I'm here, and I don't know how to fall back in love with someone and how to want this again.

What does Dr Harley have to say about that?

PS If you think I am a waste of your time you can move on to more worthy threads. I won't take it personal.