Mama - here's the answer he needs to hear - softly. firmly. Once.

I see with your insistence of my apologizing to her, instead of the other way around, and you apologizing to me as well, that her feelings are more important to you than mine and that keeping her in your life is more important than keeping me - the mother of your children and the woman you profess to love. Since this is so obviously the case, I will not be discussing this or her or you and me anymore. We are done. Please go.

And then leave the room. Make it the end of the discussion.

He needs to hear clearly that you are not deceived.

If he comes in to discuss again, gently put a finger to his lips and tell him the discussion on that topic is over. That you love him but you will no longer allow him to insult your intelligence anymore.

Well he still hasn't come home from work so I'm assuming he's trying to test me. When he left this morning and asked if I would apologize and I refuse, he said ok, in a way that basically means "I'll show you". I absolutely will not back down. I will not accept this treatment from him. I will not apologize for their mistake. He can get as pissed off as he likes, I'm not an idiot, I'm not a moron and I no longer believe anything he says. I have a feeling he will sleep outside tonight and tomorrow, to test me. I will be strong. I will be strong for the marriage we deserve to have. I will be strong for the way I expect to be treated. If he can't or won't do that, well then, I guess I will have to deal with that later.

The madder he is......the more telling that he is in an affair.

People who are not cheating are not offended by spouses thinking they are...they are flattered that the spouse loves them and cares.

Agree.

Read this. Snooping is it right or wrong?

I told his older brother, his mom and his two sisters today. They are all 100% supportive of me. He really looks up to his brother and I know when he talks to him, it will have an impact. He will try to tell them she is just a friend. I told them about him trying to get me to give her an apology, they laughed and said what the hell is he thinking?! No way you should give an apology and he is so wrong and this cannot go on. Not only about this woman, about his behaviors in general, hiding things from me and not being transparent. I feel such a huge relief to have told them and even more that they agree I should kick him out. His family loves me, they know what kind of wife I am and how lucky he is to have me, if only he could see the same. :'(

keep up the exposure, brokenmama, don't stop now.

you asked earlier if you were crazy, if she was really just a "friend." i think your screen name says it all.

you've started exposure and seen how much better it makes *you* feel. now finish it and get the job done. get that OW out of your life.

He came home last night and went straight to bed without a word to me. Got up this morning and left, took his toothbrush and still not a word. His brother will talk to him tonight. I know he thinks I'll back down and he will be SHOCKED that I told his brother. I will send a message to his best friend now. I haven't found any contact between them since I sent the message to her. She is either scared to death, pissed, or both.

who cares what she is? finish the exposure. have you read rainysweet's thread? she sat on the fence for sooooo long, but finally did expose and she is a new person! you can be too.

you need to *kill* the affair. just exposing your WH is not enough. it's like not finishing a course of antibiotics - the ick can come back because you didn't finish killing it off, you only wounded it. it can even come back stronger than before, because you help immunize it. (ie: affair can go further underground.)

if you expose her, your WH will not be able to continue his behaviour because her family/workplace will be all over her. the affair will be dead, and then you can start rebuilding your M.

take a deep breath, mama, and just do it. no matter what happens after, you will be so much better off. remember, this is to SAVE your marriage. we don't want to help you end your M, we want to help you get it into recovery. exposure is your first step.

have you read up on plans a and b?

I have read up on them and truly believe that I cannot do plan a, as I've done it many times and it doesn't stop him from doing the same thing again, that's why I have to do plan B. I have told him to leave by Monday and by the looks of things, that's what is going to happen unless he decides to come clean and become totally transparent and honest. I will expose to I can on her side. His brother talked to him today, he came home around 9pm and still didn't say a word, went straight to bed and seems depressed. I am standing firm. I will not back down. This is really hard though, I go up and down with emotions, one minute I'm so sad and just want to cry, the next I'm so mad I could kill him for doing this to us. This sucks.

atta girl!

yes, this does suck. and you are now on the roller coaster, so your feelings will change, sometimes, minute to minute. keep breathing. remember, you want to be the attractive option.

even when the A is dead, your WH will be depressed. this will be hard - you'll want him to wake up and see how wonderful you and your M are. this will take time, as the fog needs to clear. when you're feeling yucky - post here.

you are right about Plan B. Plan A doesn't get results until you go to plan b. that's why you haven't been successful before. make good use of your last 3 days so that what he remembers is positive. you can do 3 days. believe me, i know how hard it is, when want you really want to do is vomit on them! no tears, no pleading, just good food, nice house, pretty and sweet you. no affair talk! you can do 3 days. you have PB to look forward to as your short-term goal.

now, long term goals: do you have an IM? are you prepared to speak with your children? are you ready to do exposure all at once? don't drip feed it.


good girl. keep it up. 3 more days.

Ok, question, should I be plan a-ing him now? He isn't speaking to me so I wouldn't really know how I could without it seeming like I just want to make up and let things blow over...

I have no one else to expose to besides his friends and whoever I can find on her side. I've told their boss, not sure if anything will be done. I do have an IM and if he let's it get to the point of moving out on Monday, I will tell the kids then.

yes, you should be plan a-ing. look good, smell good, cook good. he doesn't have to talk to you. you can talk to him, though. "honey, i've made swedish meatballs for dinner. would you like some?" if he doesn't reply, you can say, "ok, i'll put a plate in the fridge for you to heat up later" or some such thing. there's nothing wrong with him thinking you want to make up (because that is the long-long-term goal, right? recovery). he'll get the message on monday that to do so, HE needs to change. your short-term goal is to leave a good impression. your long-term goal is to mean it (plan b).

have you written your PB letter? that's something you can do this weekend. there are templates on here.

good that you've exposed him. you don't have any power over what happens after. however, you must expose her. sorry, i'm getting confused. are you in the states? you can always go above the boss's head. there's a letter template for that too.

glad to hear you have an IM - that's wonderful! sometimes getting an IM is a huge hurdle, so you've done good work there. yes, you can tell the kids monday. age appropriate (how old are they?) but totally honest. use the word "adultery" not "affair."

good girl, mama. keep breathing. having a plan empowers you. you no longer have to just sit back and take it. atta girl!

Kids are 14, 11, 9, 6 and 9 month old twins. I don't live in the States so I have a lot of hurdles here.

ok. i don't either, so i know what you mean. and my, you're busy!

here are the plan b letter templates

Okay, you've given him a deadline. He's got until Monday.

BM, this is very trying emotionally. Can you see a doctor for antidepressants to help you while you're going through this? You need all the support you can muster at this point.

Be very clear, sweetie: you are NOT crazy. You are NOT insecure, or lacking self-esteem. And you're not controlling, or any other word your WH is going to throw at you to manipulate you into backing off.

NO FAITHFUL MAN ENDANGERS HIS FAMILY FOR AN 'OLD, POOR, SICK WOMAN' WHO IS 'JUST A FRIEND'.

Sounds like a good plan, BM. Get him out. Then you can relax and breathe. You're busy enough with your children. You need less stress. Good luck!

So today I was plan a and we talked a little. He said he found a place and it will be ready in 2 weeks. He said we need a break because I don't trust him and he doesn't like being spied on, there are some conversations with his friends he doesn't want me to hear and that he wants some privacy. I said there is no privacy in marriage and the way to earn my trust back is very simple, be honey and transparent. Tell me everything that you've been hiding or lying about through omission. He said he did. I don't agree. He said he doesn't want to keep going over and over, I said you didn't really answer anything, you're being vague and. So now what? Should I push him to get out and plan a him at the same time? Do I keep bringing it up or what?

He doesnt want privacy......but he wants secrecy......

Privacy - using the restroom.....

Secrecy - taking his phone to the restroom to text/email/speak to his adultery partner

Yup....now that you know he is cheating on you......you are cramping his style and he needs to move to keep it going.