happy QB indie! hope you're having fun (after stinky work, right?).

Yeah, back to work was NOT fun. I've found some good things to apply for though, so that's OK.

I was told a fairly disturbing story about a friend of mine recently. I am a bit thrown as I think highly of her, and she is a divorced former BW and we had bonded q well over our relevant stories and our values appeared to be the same.

But she was telling me a story after she went out dancing recently and it bothers me a lot. She's looking to meet someone, which is fine, but she got talking to a group where a man told her he had a girlfriend and baby at home.

She spent most of the night talking with him, and at one point said to him 'you're not happy are you?' To which he agreed he was not. She then ended up slow dancing with him!

I truly believed she was going to round off the story by saying she couldn't belive how dumb she'd been and next time less wine and more sense.

But instead she said she had found him very desirable and was considering looking him up on FB!

She also bragged that she had considered herself to have good boundaries because she hadn't kissed him! And told him she wouldn't!

I'm afraid I was q harsh. I told her that if she was looking for a cheater there were websites that specialised in that.

I also said she would never have shown those behaviours if the girlfriend had been there. That if she had, she would have told my friend to mind her own business about how happy they were.

I know this guy isn't married, but I don't see the point in signing up for misery, and being needlessly cruel to a woman who already has a terrible hand dealt her.

Another friend agreed the slow dancing was inappropriate, but disagreed when I said the poor boundaries had started earlier, with the type of conversation.

Well when I had finished this friend was as red as a poppy, said I was right and she now felt terrible. She said she hadn't thought to think about it from the the girlfriends perspective. But it looks bad from every perspective.

I know people are human and make mistakes, I hadn't planned on saying anything until she kept talking about how he was not happy.

But I can't shake this bad feeling .

I'm with you Indie I think you did the right thing. As we know from experience and MB this is how it starts. Sounds like she was also justifying "he's not happy" I know the guy isn't married but he has a gf and baby. May not be adultery but in my book it is still cheating.

Bravo, Indie! If more people got a good slap across the face from someone who cared enough to knock some sense into them at the beginning of this road, maybe more nightmares could be avoided. What can she be thinking after being a BW herself? This is what I've never understood - even if she cared nothing for the girlfriend and baby, could just put that out of her mind with no empathy, morals, or compassion whatsoever, what woman wants to mess with a guy like that? Who doesn't marry a woman he has a baby with, and I assume lives with? And then goes out on the prowl besides? What does she think is at the end of this road? DUH!

That's the problem. No one stops to think about the end of the road, only about the half a step in front of them.

Anyway, way to go telling her what you thought. I'm SO glad she turned red and started to think a bit. Hope it sinks in!

Glad you have some job prospects:) Fingers crossed for you!

indie, that's what friends are for! helping you out when you do something stupid! as a bw, i can't believe she trotted out the "you aren't happy at home" line. that's every OWs first shot! i'd'a been pissed!

i hope she was very embarrassed, and takes some time to reflect on her own actions, regardless of his. i wouldn't think she'd like to be in the same position, *again!*

good luck with the job prospects. going to a sucky job ...well, sucks!

did you get to enjoy some black pud today? on our news, they said they were serving it up to the revelers!

I hope so, but I'm very aware that listening to me as a friend long term will cost her some enjoyable, easy attention. She also started talking about how having OS friends when she was married was 'fine' because they saw her as safe, then in the next breath said she did know one of the friends fancied her. It all just got to me, and I went for the jugular.

She was just so proud of herself for not giving in to temptation and did not see (until I pointed it out) she needlessly created that temptation when she didnt have to. When I pulled the situation apart, she did seem to 'get it'. But I wonder if it can really be that easy. Can it be as easy as me pointing out the cause and effect of what went on and so she pays attention and stops it?

I'm not so sure. And I'm not willing to have friends I don't respect. I overlooked q a few character flaws in OWs behaviour around men, when we were younger - and look where that got me.

I suppose only time will tell if she has listened. It would just be such a great shame if she did not.



No because I've been working, not revelling! I do have to go cover some street parties though, so I might get offered some. I could always stop off and buy some for dinner though!

What kind of "cheating" is it?

If living together is the epitome of a renter's rel-ship, that would seem to make the whole concept of loyalty and fidelity a non-starter.

That doesn't mean your friend is making good choices. She sounds like a bit of an idiot actually.

But I don't quite get the point of browbeating her about helping someone to cheat.

I know! It isnt adultery and this man has made no formal promises to his child's mother.. If it had been a case of potential adultery, I would have made efforts to get on the phone to the BW and my friendship with this woman would prob be done.

Like I said, I wasnt even going to mention it because I saw it as simply a slip in her behaviour and as being a bit, momentarily 'unwise'. It wasnt until she gave a speech about her 'restraint' and that she was proud to follow these rules for behaviour on a daily basis, that I cracked. Initially I was worried about her, but now I am worried about me.

It bugs me, not as a question of adultery, but of character. It says a lot about her character that she was willing to cause someone pain for a flutter of admiration. To get cheap attention in that way. To ignore the facts in favour of the 'hes not happy' delusion.

If cheating on a b/f or g/f is not adultery but 'failing the husband interview' isnt being someone who helps that person cheat, failing a friend/character interview?

My best friend, who became the OW in my marriage, loved to have other girls boyfriends show an interest when we were young. The 'Are you happy?' line could have been her. I suppose that triggered me. In fact when I confronted her, she said: "You and WH arent happy and are blaming me" so I responded "It's none of your business how happy we are!"

I struggle to imagine myself being friends with this woman long term now. Would I trust her around my H one day?

When she has OS friendships for attention when she remarries, do I want to be around that? I think it would offend me greatly, even if nothing ever happened.

It sounds like you are struggling with cutting this friendship?

If she isn't friendship material do you want her around?

That's the million dollar question, BH. What perplexes me is that we've had many conversations where our morals and values seemed in tune. Being a BW herself, she 'gets' the whole thing I've gone through and that is priceless in a RL friend.

The point I'm at now, I think, is to observe what happens in future. The fact she responded to what I said positively weighs heavily in her favour and I'm inclined to view it as a one-off.

But I'm wary, and usually when you become wary, you see either see other worrying signs, or you see the person respond to your concern in a good way.

In fact, I thought another friend, lets call her J, was a being a bit inappropriate a few months back. Mine and J's other friend who was engaged discovered her fiance had been cheating on her so she broke up with him. The fiance then started to message J on Twitter. J, who is someone I would describe as a very moral person usually, became flattered in spite of herself. The engaged friend told her she was a) being a bad friend and b) she was lining herself up for misery. J listened and did an aboutface when confronted with our engaged friend's wariness of her.

So being wary is good. But it is not comfortable.

That sounds like level-headed thinking, Indie. I think you're right.

And I know that cheating on a g/f is not the same as adultery, not the same level. But it's still cheating. If he said she was his g/f, he has a child with her, (not sure - sounded like he even lives with her?), no one should be going in to break that up. The poor lady has settled for garbage, clearly, and he may very well end up being unfaithful and moving on (or not). But it's wrong for another woman to get in the middle of that.

Like you said, with OW years ago, getting attention from other women's b/f's to boost your ego is not a good thing to do.

The "you're not happy" speech makes me want to throw up. Rodent sent me a fb message when I first told her to back off all about how she "hoped I didn't blame the beak-up of my marriage on the fact that OW became involved - clearly we were so unhappy long before she arrived." I should have strangled her back then.

I see what you are saying on both sides. I would watch your friend closely for a bit.

Indie. But the difference between you and your BW friend is that YOU found MB while BW friend did not. She may understand the hurt but not the reasons behind an affair. This is where you come in as a missionary of the MB principles.

You are very good at helping others. Don't lose sight of that.

Thank you! This made me a bit teary. I do make allowances for the fact that others are not MBers.

It's not comfortable being a 'missionary' and I don't want to become one of those people who tell others how to live their lives.

But then again I know I cant help speaking out when I see that stuff, so this is just going to be something that will happen sometimes.

Had to jump in here. I have been privy to the MB concepts for a very short time. In that time have come to see a MAJOR lack of boundaries and wayward behavior...everywhere I turn it seems. In friends, in family, even in the newspaper. Our society as a whole seems to be ANTI marriage, and PRO adultery! I am very dismayed at it all.

But, I have to say in response to Pokerface, I have come to the conclusion that MB enlightenment is the grand reason for some of this. I have been wayward without even knowing it frankly, I had no concept of boundaries for a long long time. Now of course a light bulb has gone off, I interact with the opposite sex in an entirely different way (or not at all, to some extent). I see interactions in an entirely different way between others. I have to remember that not everyone has had this enlightenment though.

Good for you Indie for speaking up about this! I personally think anyone with character will be able to be swayed to a 'good boundary' way of thinking once they are enlightened about it. But I do think that most people just do not have the information and perspective we have, certainly society in general doesn't support it.

I hear what you are saying about being a missionary about this way of thinking. I recently got into a major heated battle with a friend about wayward foggy thinking and lack of boundaries, and we haven't spoken since. I have kinda wanted to text her a couple times and apologize but then thought no, if she is wayward minded and knows it and embraces it, then it is not my responsibility to turn her around, it is my responsibility to protect myself from her more or less. Kinda not a friend I need in my life right now.

But to me it sounds like your friend just lost her way, and was appreciative to you for helping her find it again.

I was incredibly flirty and had OS friends when I was first married. First someone developed feelings for me, but I laughed it off as 'their problem' feeling just the littlest bit guilty that I may have encouraged it. Then someone seemed very persistently attracted to me, but kept quiet about it. I wasnt seeing much of my H and I felt powerfully flattered. This was the turning point for me. I didnt like the feeling. I was actually considering raising it with the guy and luckily for me he wasnt very predatory, I think he just liked the no pressure experience of a crush. So I told my H. This worked for a bit for I didnt really change my behaviours. Then there was some initial attention from another guy, which again I liked and I came to the conclusion that I was 'vain' and that I could no longer court attention and consider it harmless. I was also lucky in that my H was relatively jealous and wouldnt have endured an OS friend.

I am pretty sure that had I an MBer friend during some of these times, they would have torn me a new one and made me feel very ashamed. I muddled through nevertheless.

Sometimes you just have to learn the hard way.

Indie. there is a difference between being self righteous telling people how to live their lives and being a guide.

You are a great guide.

Yes! I have learned the hard way. My H was NOT jealous, or rather he had his own stuff going on now I know so he just didn't want to turn it back on himself I guess. Either way I had free reign to have multiple OS friendships throughout our marriage. Close friendships, what I know now were EA's really I just thought if we don't get sexual in word or action then its just a 'friendship' and not a problem as long as H doesn't mind. And if it ever crossed that line I would immediately go NC with that person and tell my H, so I thought I was golden. So wrong.

God its amazing how the pain of an affair can strike you out of nowhere, even a year later.

A week or so ago I thought of Softlad and began crying. It only lasted about fifteen minutes though and then I was fine.

Driving home today, I had a bad spell. The pain just struck me from nowhere, like a stray canonball. Honestly its like having PTSD.

I was thinking of how happy his face was when I walked down thhe aisle on our wedding day. And now I'm crying again just writing this.

I don't know where the thought came from. Its a clear violation of my 'no romantic thoughts' rule. Did a song, a smell, a sight trigger me? I don't know, I just wandered into it.

These times are getting so few and far between, that there is no reason for me to fear them. I know I'm OK.

But it does beg the question: how can he have forgotten organically what I have worked so hard to eradicate? Does he enjoy being miserable and out of control? Or is he so far gone that he doesn't even realise how much he has forgotten?

All rhetorical questions of course. The answers don't matter.

YKW? It isn't even PTSD.....its TSD cause he is still betraying you.

You are one loving wife, and that means you are a prize. To the world. The whole world.

Now, dust yourself off and refocus on other things.