Z - it feels like you use each situation to evaluate whether or not you two can make it in the long run. That has to be stressful for both you and your H. You two are currently on a path working toward fixing your marriage and you are learning, you aren't going to be perfect.

Can you try to view each slip up as a learning opportunity rather than evidence that you are doomed? You could set a deadline for yourself, like 1 year from now, to evaluate if this has all paid off and then allow yourself to experience the ride until then.

I only responded to you again because you mentioned me specifically, but I feel compelled to ask you about Steve saying that spending time together would do more harm than good?

What (as exactly as you remember) did he say? I am deeply suspicious that his statement was misinterpreted, but not intentionally. I say that from experience with a spouse who didn't want to spend time with me during coaching with Steve. Things were misinterpreted.

Penni, this is really good advice. Thanks. I'll take it!

Good question, CWMI. I was frankly shocked by Steve's response. I asked him (one-on-one), "I'm surprised you haven't given us the 15 hours a week assignment yet. When do we have to do that?" Steve said (something like), "Well, we have to start with the basics, lay the proper foundation first. It's kind of like physical fitness: if you start trying to lift heavy weights before you're in shape, you'll hurt yourself. We'll work up to that. I think at this point it would do more potential harm than good." And he literally has not assigned us "time together" yet: Only EN & LB checklists, and eliminating LBs completely (like my Hs AOs)...which is taking time.

Sometimes I feel like we're in preschool, or Short-Bus MB.

Anyway, in sum his approach is sometimes very different from what I expect. He doesn't push me to commit, he's not insisting on anything. He just encourages us to do things that help our teammate feel safe and cared for.

I should qualify: I will do my best to remember this when I'm discouraged.

**EDIT**

Ouch. I don't like your approach.

Then don't mention me in your threads, okay? I promise to stay away from your thread unless you mention me or use me as an example. Okay?

Sometimes the best advice comes from those that are hard to hear.

The forums aren't like they were 6 years ago when everyone just complained about their spouses and "supported" each other with "your spouse is the bad one and you don't need to change they do". Sometimes it was very difficult to read and watch the storms.

They teach and direct with Dr. Harley's concepts now.

Okay?

I am done with you unleas you mention me again.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8505_fft.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8116_coach.html




There is a video that can be found on Youtube that is a lecture given by a man named Randy Pausch on "Really Achieving Your Childhood Dreams," it was alternatively named "The Last Lecture."

Pausch was a professor at Carnegie Mellon University, and began giving the lecture after he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer of the liver.

Around the 9 minute mark of the video, he talks about playing High School football, and having the coach be "hard" on him.

One of the other coaches pulled him aside and said; That's a good thing. When you are screwing up and nobody is saying anything, that means they gave up.

Your critics are the ones who are telling you they still care.


I see that here. Every day. When people KNOW what they need to do, and refuse to do it... people give up on them. Every. Day.


We can help people with their own behavior. We can remind them that their behavior will affect their LB$ balance with their spouse. We can remind them that improved LB$ balances will make their spouses more receptive to their complaints and requests.

We cannot give someone with no desire to work the program on themselves the desire to do so.

We cannot stop somebody from making the decision to blame their spouse for ALL of their marital problems.

We cannot stop somebody from using excuses and justifications to not keep their side of the street clean.


We can call them on their bull, but we cannot MAKE them see, or MAKE them listen.


Some posters run away because they are incapable of taking responsibility.

Some posters will be given up on, little by little, until they stop showing up because no one will help the to do NOTHING for themselves.


And some posters... some posters will take responsibility for their own choices, their own actions, their own reactions... and those posters will go on to have great marriages.


Where would you like to be, Z?

Z,
For what it's worth, the idea of training small and working up analogy is a statement about how the work is done. It is not a statement about how you're "wimpy". It applies to both partners and it doesn't necessarily mean you're not doing the "weights" that you are supposed to be doing now. Just practice your checklist for a while while refraining from Lovebusters, no matter if you get lovebusted. If you feel one about to come out, excuse yourself. If you are presented with an AO, excuse yourself. If you two could just get 30 minutes of time together that is enjoyable for both, then you'll have something upon which to build and increase, until you are able to enjoy 15-20 hours together. The hard part is getting the first bit done! The hardest part is to get yourself off the couch in the first place. The hardest part is deciding that you do indeed want to run the marathon enough that you're willing to train for it.

No need to stay away. I don't like your DJs - if you post respectfully, I'd appreciate your thoughts. If not, then please don't post on my thread.

**edit**

**EDIT***

moderator's note: if you have an issue with another poster please notify us and let us do the moderating. Thank you.

Thanks LL. I've noticed that when we do get small increments of pleasant time together, it makes a big difference in my feelings. I'll remember that and try to use it with my H.

For the record, my H started this program with a distaste for the POJA (he calls it "flawed"), tons of LBs, including AOs that became physically violent. He is now in AM.

H's only complaint about our marriage was that I "complain too much, my expectations are unreasonable," otherwise he was happy. Mine was his abuse, other LBs, and not meeting my ENs, with a LB$ deeply in the red.

I am not convinced that Steve was referring to me in his "more harm than good" comments.

Credit where credit is due: my H has been 'working it' the past 2 days, and I am grateful for this. I'm keeping Penni's advice in the back of my mind and trying to see the big picture. And, my H has been warming up to the POJA bit by bit. That's encouraging.

Hi Z, hon, it's not your problem if folks posts in ways against TOS, that's what the notify button is for. That will keep your thread focused on your marriage.

What I like about MB is that it's a plan of action, and the feelings follow. I was free to give up my expectation that I was supposed to feel a certain way. Steve toldy then-H that how he feels about me is a result of my actions and likewise how I felt about him was a result of his actions. You know you're doing what's on your action plan, things you are enthusiastic about, things that make you feel better about yourself, your H, your M, your family. The rest will follow. I was *so* hard on myself for so long, doing the "If only I tried harder" guilt trip on myself every day. What a relief to trade that in for Plan A, they call it the Reality Bringer, and it totally did that for me and my family.

I'm sorry to disagree, but I think that both LL above and Steve Harley are interpreting and watering down Dr Harley's programme.

I am coaching with Dr Harley on the online course, and it is simply not allowed for a couple to water down the 15 hours UA requirement.

You are required to practice the 15 hours from the moment you sign up to the course, before you even finish watching the videos and filling in the EN questionnaire. You must account for your 15 hours every week, in writing. If your marriage is in crisis then you are urged to complete more than 15 hours.

Zhamila, I think you should write to Dr Harley at the radio show about this. Through my coaching with him, I am aware of how strongly he insists on at least 15 hours' UA time from the very start. He does not like cutting corners on his programme, and saying that this is something you can build up to - especially going as low as "30 minutes of time together that is enjoyable for both" - is cutting the programme to shreds.