He pursued me, in the very beginning. But after the first date I was hooked, which is unlike me. After that I was more the pursuer, I would say.


I thought he was the ONE for me. I had dated a lot before meeting him, been engaged once, had a couple other unofficial proposals. At the time I like to think I thought with my head and not my heart, and even though I had been 'in love' with other men, they weren't what I wanted in a life partner. He was. In a million ways. I was smitten, I will admit.

I have asked him a million times why he married me. At the time we both agree he was too young, too inexperienced in dating, and not ready for the commitment. He says he knew how special I was and even though he was not ready to settle down, he did not want me to get away or find someone else. Like putting me on the backburner for later. I guess.


Tepid: No. I have always been very affectionate and loving, to the point where he is annoyed. Still am, far more than you would think reading this thread. He just says he was selfish and didn't care about me and yet didn't want anyone else to have me. He behaved as if he were single, and didn't consider me at all. But yes, ennui was a part of it.


The ONS: I was pg with our first child, on bed rest for 5 months. Even then I worked hard to meet his ahem, SF needs because I was worried about him, thats a long time! Although all other needs at that time were unmet, with no fault to my own. I could not get out of bed more than 5-15 minutes a day, bathroom breaks more or less. There was no cleaning, no RC time, no taking care of myself. He avoided me like I had the plague. During and post partum I was very, very depressed.

Understand I am resentful about and worry about this. Needs were unmet, I get it. How could I have changed that? What will he do if/when that occurs again? He spent 2 yrs sick with a 'mystery illness' a couple yrs ago, I have never been a better wife to him. He says that is a time he fell greatly in love with me, a time that turned him around.

Besides the ONS though, he basically behaved throughout our marriage as if he were single, more or less. Even during the 'good' times.


No.


Thanks for the vote of confidence. I was NEVER apathetic in a relationship before this one. I am a very passionate person, actually.


I don't have apathy toward life. Just toward my marriage. Isn't that what happens on an empty LB?

Unwritten,

Although I haven't read the entire thread yet, I already see that I can relate (check out my latest thread, if you'd like). I'm a similar boat right now. I will read more of what you wrote... sorry, no advice at this point. Just wanted to express my sympathy and understanding.

Starting at the end, because it is vital to the topic.....

I don't have apathy toward life. Just toward my marriage. Isn't that what happens on an empty LB?

Kiddo, two things here strike me:

Firstly, your marriage should define so large a part of your life that the terms should be close to interchangeable.

Secondly, NO, an empty LB balance should be worse than an intense hunger or thirst, to someone with the idea of a fulfilling marriage paramount.

Think about these as I take a break to enjoy my bride's "Zucchini Carbonara Pasta".

UW,

I hope you really listen to Triple H and NG.

Also an empty lovebank means you feel absoulutely nothing, no hate, no disgust, Just nothing.

Okay, let's keep going here....

...I had been 'in love' with other men, they weren't what I wanted in a life partner. He was. In a million ways.

List them, please. Maybe not all "million", but as many as you can reasonably fit into a post.

But after the first date I was hooked, which is unlike me. After that I was more the pursuer... I was smitten... I have always been very affectionate and loving, to the point where he is annoyed. Still am, far more than you would think reading this thread... I was NEVER apathetic in a relationship before this one. I am a very passionate person, actually.

Ignoring the fact that WH is your WH, describe his qualities today. Specifically compare him to the paragon that you thought you were marrying having the list above.

Have either/both of you been checked for chronic depressive symptoms? No....I was pg with our first child, on bed rest for 5 months. I could not get out of bed more than 5-15 minutes a day... He avoided me like I had the plague. During and post partum I was very, very depressed... He spent 2 yrs sick with a 'mystery illness' a couple yrs ago, I have never been a better wife to him. He says that is a time he fell greatly in love with me, a time that turned him around.

You and he might want to consider such a check. Yes, there are certain allowances to be made for the hormonal impacts post-pregnancy, but your (and his) self-avowed disconnect from what could be a very important portion of life sets off alarms.

And lastly, what is your vocation? I know you are now a SAHM, but what did you do prior to earning that title?

Hrm. Ok. The qualities I liked in H: H was passionate about life. Passionate about his hobbies. Beyond confident. Assertive. Sparkling with energy. Highly intellegent, brilliant. Highly ambitious in life. Yet conservative, reserved. He was the smart kid in school, the one who was every girls 'friend' and who you knew you could trust. The 'nice guy' that would never wrong you. Usher at his church. Strong sense of morals. Not a party guy. And he had a passion for the outdoors, which I do. I knew this was a man who would be committed to his family, a friend to me, have morals, be trustworthy, and provide for and protect his family. Those are the qualities that made him the man I wanted to spend my life with.

This is one of the issues I have gone through. I would not once, look back at the H I knew then and think he would be the one to cheat on me and behave in the manner he has in this M. I have dated lots of guys that had the potential to do that, and I didn't marry them for that reason. H was just that good guy that wouldn't. I know MB policy is that ALL people will cheat, I agree with that. But definitely there are people who are more at risk than others. I would have thought it would take the perfect storm for a man like H to cheat, from what I knew of him pre M. Now I feel like I have NO judge of character, if I believed that.

He is still intelligent and ambitious, very successful, and he does provide well for us. But I learned to see him as the corporate executive from the movies, who has unscrupulous morals and is totally self indulged at the detriment to those around him. His confidence to me now seems like self centeredness and a sense of entitlement, conceit really where he thinks he deserves whatever he wants in life, regardless of the cost to others. He is definitely not the 'nice guy' that I thought I could trust to have good morals and protect our family. That imagine is blown, and was long before I found out about the PA. He is the guy who goes to church and everyone thinks is a moral strong Christian, then goes home to live a very immoral unChristianlike life. Subsequently, we have barely been to church since DDay because I feel like we and our life are a big FAKE, people don't know the real us.

Since DDay, and losing the love I had for him, feeling the sting of my resentment, I think he has been brought down a few notches. I think the selfish conceit and sense of entitlement is gone, for the most part. Now he just seems sad, lost. His passion and energy are gone. I don't see him as assertive, I see him as avoidant. One of those 'don't know what you got til its gone' situations. I adored this man, doted on him for a long, long time. Put him on a pedestal. Nobody could match him in my mind. Even though he was not a good H to me, I maintained that somehow for years. And then, rebellion, trickle truth, crash. Now H knows what it means to have someone respect and admire you, because he doesn't anymore. I think that alone has crushed him.

So to recap. Pre M: amazing. Still think he was amazing then, there is no way I would have known what I was in for. Since hindsight is 20/20, now I can say he was starting to become controlling and manipulative. Its a process and it did start before M. M pre DDay: Conceited, selfish, self entitled, manipulative a$$, who I somehow still adored until I snapped. That was a process too. Post DDay: Thanks to me and my constant resentment and reminders of what a total A he was, hit rock bottom I guess. Sad and lost. Give me hell for that if you wish, I'm sure I deserve it.

I did have pre and post partum depression during my first and second pregnancy. I know what depression feels like. For me, I am not depressed. He has had depression during his illness. I can't speak for him as to whether he still feels depressed or not.

My BA is in Criminal Justice. My career pre SAHM was in Business/Marketing/Client Service more or less. Now I am the president of a non profit org. on a volunteer status.

Feel like I'm in therapy. NG's therapy. I am wondering where we are going with on all this NG but I trust you have a goal here.

Hindsight isn't 20/20.

Hindsight is emotionally driven confirmation bias focused on finding memories which validate a current state of emotion or belief.

Because of your current emotional state with your husband, you are dismissing and discarding the very things NG is asking you to recall.

You are "following your heart" rather than practical application of memory.


You are familiar with the Love Bank, no?


If you look at the basic concepts, and the way being in love is described prior to introducing the Love Bank, it's this simple;

Being in love is a series of positive memory associations with a member of the opposite sex.

Each positive memory association is a Love Bank deposit.

Enough deposits, and you are in love with your spouse.

That feeling is validated by 1) the way you feel, 2) the positive memories which you can recall which are associated with your spouse.




Right now?


You are not in love; you are angry, resentful, bitter - you feeling is validated by 1) your current emotional state, 2) any negative memories which you can associate with your spouse.




This is not going to change until you put the work in.


PERIOD.


This is not a sprint.


PERIOD.


You can't half-[censored] it for ONE WEEK and say it doesn't work, because NOBODY TOLD YOU IT WILL WORK IN ONE WEEK.



Either you value marriage, and are willing to commit to the program which will recover it and make it better than it has ever been, or you do not value your marriage and you will not do the work.


Your MOTIVATION is a recovered and improved marriage. If, after TWO YEARS of effort it is NOT improved, you are better off to divorce, as it is likely to never improve.


If YOU cannot commit to living the principals put forth in this program, it is IMPOSSIBLE to expect that your spouse will.


It all starts with UA time.


If you are not willing to commit to the bare minimum of 15 hours a week of UA time, this program will not work for you and you are wasting your time.

Oh, brother, NOW the pressure's on! I am no therapist, my friend, but I have been fortunate in my past in solving problems, probably as a result of my Engineering training.

UW, your words are in RED below. You mentioned you had read the thread from which the quotes in BLUE were taken. If so, could I suggest you re-read it?

H was passionate about life. Passionate about his hobbies. Beyond confident. Assertive. Sparkling with energy. Highly intellegent, brilliant. Highly ambitious in life. Yet conservative, reserved. He was the smart kid in school, the one who was every girls 'friend' and who you knew you could trust. The 'nice guy' that would never wrong you. Usher at his church. Strong sense of morals. Not a party guy. And he had a passion for the outdoors, which I do. I knew this was a man who would be committed to his family, a friend to me, have morals, be trustworthy, and provide for and protect his family. Those are the qualities that made him the man I wanted to spend my life with.... I would not once, look back at the H I knew then and think he would be the one to cheat on me and behave in the manner he has in this M...I would have thought it would take the perfect storm for a man like H to cheat, from what I knew of him pre M.

I met my future when I was a college sophomore, and she a high-school senior, about to enter my college's sister-school. We met in April, and there was no doubt she was THE ONE. We secretly pledged ourselves to each other that July. She was everything I'd ever imagined as my life-partner � independent; fiercely bright; beautiful; possessing a great sense of humor, and appreciation of humor in others. She had been raised in a very sheltered environment � highly ethnocentric family; the very much "baby" sister of two imposingly large older brothers; an honors graduate of an upper-tier NYC female-only parochial high school � and had almost nothing in the way of internal appreciation of her own worth. She was always skeptical of compliments, and never really absorbed them. She had one other quality that is difficult to describe � she did not think or act like a "girl". As we went through school, she was much more at ease with my classmates than even with her own. For her whole life she was never one to have a lot of "girlfriends". I was her first boyfriend (and lover), and I was fully confident she'd be my last... My wife was PERFECT, independent and accomplished in everything she touched. She had become an excellent cook; she sewed clothes for us when she chose to and had the time (I have about eight wildly colorful hand-made Hawaiian shirts); she hand-knit sweaters. I was the sloppy, overly-casual one; she made everything work � from planning vacations abroad to handling the family finances. Deep down, I always feared that in spite of my best efforts and commitments, I would have been the one to screw up somehow. She could never be that person. Mother Theresa would have an affair before my wife!

Eerie, isn't it, how closely the two pre-disillusionment descriptions align?

He is still intelligent and ambitious, very successful, and he does provide well for us. But I learned to see him as the corporate executive from the movies, who has unscrupulous morals and is totally self indulged at the detriment to those around him. His confidence to me now seems like self centeredness and a sense of entitlement, conceit really where he thinks he deserves whatever he wants in life, regardless of the cost to others. He is definitely not the 'nice guy' that I thought I could trust to have good morals and protect our family. That imagine is blown, and was long before I found out about the PA. He is the guy who goes to church and everyone thinks is a moral strong Christian, then goes home to live a very immoral unChristianlike life. Subsequently, we have barely been to church since DDay because I feel like we and our life are a big FAKE, people don't know the real us...Since DDay, and losing the love I had for him, feeling the sting of my resentment, I think he has been brought down a few notches. I think the selfish conceit and sense of entitlement is gone, for the most part. Now he just seems sad, lost. His passion and energy are gone. I don't see him as assertive, I see him as avoidant. One of those 'don't know what you got til its gone' situations. I adored this man, doted on him for a long, long time. Put him on a pedestal. Nobody could match him in my mind....And then, rebellion, trickle truth, crash. Now H knows what it means to have someone respect and admire you, because he doesn't anymore. I think that alone has crushed him.

My bride suffered immeasurably more than I in the period immediately following d-night. My recovery time-line was set back a bit as I needed to attend to her severly damaged psyche...I needed to spend virtually all my time helping her keep it together. Her "fall", in some respects, shocked her as much as it shocked me... I did arrange for a second wedding ceremony on 13 August. By that time, as explained, I was so much more worried about her mental state than my mental pain, that there was absolutely no chance that we would fail. The one thing, then, that I did that I take some pride in is that I accepted that her "transgressions" ended with my discovery, and I could assure her that my "failures" to support our marriage ended at discovery. If she would commit the same effort toward recovery as I, we had nothing to fear.

Can you see the "break" in the plotline as these second, post-disillusionment renditions play out? It's amazingly indicative that you were a Criminal Justice major, as you have brought the gavel down on WH. On the other hand, the engineer, who really enjoyed the status of his earlier life, wanted to fix the broken engine.

It is on the BS, in certain cases, to hold the marriage together and put the initial repairs in place. (Objectively now, not looking for plaudits, okay?) I was able to re-envision the life with the spouse I had in my first paragraph, and thereby overrode the pain of the betrayal, with the selfish goal of re-establishing that life. You either will, or will not, be able to bury your hurt deeply enough to let the experiences of your first paragraph be the target you will work toward gaining.

I fear your BATNA is too attractive for you to fully enlist in the fight for your own marriage, my dear friend. Having the emotional satisfaction of holding WH fully accountable for his actions may be blinding you to the concurrent damage to your own best interests.

It's there for you, UW, if you'll only reach out for it.

Eerily similar.

I have brought the gavel down. I see myself as one of the most bitter, resentful betrayed spouses on here. So many people seem so much more ready to see beyond the pain of betrayal, why is it so hard for me! I guess being mad is a lot easier for me than being sad, I do not like to be sad. I was sad and pathetic for years and somehow I have embraced the sassy bxxxh as stronger and more capable of handling things. Guess they are equally as pathetic though.

I have a very, very difficult time envisioning a life with the man from my first paragraph. I think you had that life for a long time, I did not. That was H pre marriage, I have never been married to that man. Maybe I was actually disillusioned PRE marriage and that man doesn't even exist? The vast majority of our history has shown me the other man, the one that is far from perfect, the one who I DON'T want to be with. I don't want to fight for that man, that will just end up with me hurt again.

I had to look up BATNA again. As always, I'm not exactly sure how that applies here, lol. I do know how to read rights to a perp though:)

I know its damaging my own best interests. I know a good marriage is best for everyone. I guess I just have little faith that it is achievable, for us. I have never had a good marriage, and I have never had a spouse who provided for my needs. I have never had a spouse that cared to have anything more than what we have now. I can hardly envision that its possible.

IDK. I'm rambling. Feel like my feelings are almost always all over the board on this. At the end its just...overwhelming and makes me want to go do some IB and check out. Not going to, but thats the compulsion when I get overwhelmed.

I really wish there was a way to hold on to the energy of the good days. I do have good days where I am really dedicated, really focused on recovery. My energy is put to better use to be more demanding about UA time, etc. But it is SO EASY for me to get off track, the slightest push back from H, and I just want to say screw it I'm done.

I don't know if this history is useful or not. For the first decade of our M, I wanted nothing more than an amazing relationship with H. I absolutely adored him, even though he did nothing to earn that, at the time. I'm not sure how my LB remained so high. I tried many, many things to get him to invest in our M. Talking to him, negotiating with him, filling his needs. Now I know that I was doing a ton of things wrong, like filling needs that were important to ME and not recognizing the needs that were important to HIM (even though he tried to tell me a few times). If only I knew then what I know now, because I had so much perseverance back then! The more I tried, the further detached he became. I didn't know about his double life, of course that played a role, but perhaps my perseverance and 'neediness' played a role in his detachment. Finally, I just snapped. I went off the deep end. I vowed that anger was better than sadness and that I was done trying to be the perfect wife, if such a thing exists (and if so, I was far from it). What's good for the goose baby. But with that, I became happier, more confident, lost all the baby weight from #3 and got into steller shape, developed all KINDS of fun relationships. Total destruction I see now, but guess what. THAT, is the only time H has ever seemed like he cared about me. He was totally into me! I was a raging bxxxh and had totally IB, and he seemed to respond thoroughly to that. Now, rebellion has settled down, and I am trying to get my head in the game of recovery, and he is more withdrawn and detached again. Hrm. This is not a pattern that pushes me into trying again. Working hard to get him to invest = detachment. Rebellious IB behavior = affection and attention (and the best SF we have ever had). Just sayin, this is one of the things that goes through my brain. Makes no sense, at all, I realize, but it has just been our history. I call it the cat and mouse game, when he is running I am chasing, and vice versa, and I guess I just don't want to be the chaser EVER AGAIN.

Wow I'm on a roll. HHH is just going to shake his head and give up on me fo sho. I know this is freudian mumbo jumbo that makes no difference in the end, at the end the equation is simple. Do the work = chance at recovery. Don't do the work = no chance at recovery. That's that.

Well, UW, here's where we're going to have to part company, in terms of driving this to a conclusion. The "engineer" here knows what caused your boat's engine to seize up, and can advise on tearing it down to rebuild it. You, as the customer, however, have decided to acquire a sailboat, instead - quieter, less explosive, but markedly less able to deliver the goods to a fixed itinerary.

Don't misread my point - there's nothing wrong with sailing for some people, and some purposes. I just have no advice to give you on managing one.

Hrm. What caused my engine to seize exactly, so that if I decide to climb back on the ship and begin the daunting task of engine rebuilding, I can make sure to do it with all the knowledge I need for it to not seize up again?

Well, UW, I'm not an engineer... I'm a nurse.

I'll keep trying to give you the prescribed treatment as ling as you are on my string.


You are right, though. All that mumbo-jumbo don't change the prescription, sister.

Yes yes I know.

I know the prescription, just need to find the motivation WITHIN MYSELF to follow it, I guess. That better.

Meanwhile, H has been pretty darn good to me the last couple of days. He has reacted to my withdrawal with assertiveness to get me OUT of withdrawal, and it has helped immensely. Like I said, the smallest effort on his part is inspiring to me. Date night tonight, H has stuck to lunch dates and date nights like glue, regardless of what else has gone on/how busy schedules are. He comments often on how much he enjoys them. I know its not the full UA time, but the committment to something is a start.

Do you know how many BS there are that don't even get that from their WS?

...if I decide to climb back on the ship and begin the daunting task of engine rebuilding, I can make sure to do it with all the knowledge I need...

Ahhhh, so you want to UPGRADE from the free trial version of "Engee Diagnostics" to version 5.9, "Maxi-Drive"?

For that we need low introductory payment of your commitment to (effectively) give everything you've got to the process. We can arrange easy payments due every day of your life. Call us at 1-800-EnGee59, or indicate by checking the space on the form below:

___ YES, I agree to invest in my own marriage!

Call now! Operators are standing by!

There is no way in...heaven...the mods are going to let that stand!
Can it, blondie! NG is splitting the proceeds with them!

Well, last night I came to the conclusion that I just cannot move past the betrayal and all of our negative history, and asked H for a D. I love him, and its not what I want. But I am just so empty after all of this, I feel like I have nothing to give to this recovery effort.

There are so many inspiring people on this board, who seem to be willing to put things behind them and move forward, put 100% into recovery, drive the recovery boat if they have to. I wish I was one of those people. I really think after his ONS DDay I was ready to be one of those people. I remember being relieved after hearing about that ONS, sounds bizarre. After years of questions and months of trickle truths I finally thought I had all the info and that it was a crossroads, that we would use this to turn our marriage around. Its not the A that has drained me, as much as the LIMBO. The wasted time where everything was out on the table but H did NOTHING to try and heal me. The most effort that has been put into recovery has been in the last couple of months since I have started this thread, and that is half a$$ at best. I realize I am half of that equation, I wish I could put more in. I just haven't been able to find it in me to do so. The state of limbo is just draining me by the day, and it needs to end.

Anyway. He was upset. He said he loves me and doesn't want to lose me. I cannot stand to see him hurt. I told him that I would give him through the summer. I'm not sure what Dr. H says about time limits but I can't handle the limbo anymore. I told H I would give him through the summer, but he had to put 100% into recovery and do everything I asked of him. Not tomorrow or the next day, or a month from now, but when I ask it. Today I am going to set some specific guidelines about what exactly I want, and when I want it accomplished. There will be no room for miscommunication in it, no room for him to have to figure out the route our ship needs to take. That is all I can do to help him with his end of this deal, he either does it or he doesn't.

In turn I promised him the I would put 100% into recovery also. It does motivate me to know that this is it, in a couple months I will be filing for D unless we both put the effort in. Frankly, I had already decided that even if I filed I was still going to put 100% in. Sounds silly but I want him to remember me as the amazing wife I can be. Not the sad wife, or the resentful wife, but the one that I should have and could have been all along. Go out with a bang, I guess.

So wish me luck. Pray that I can muster up the energy to put the effort in that I need to. I guess I now have a 'plan' for the next few months, and that helps. I put 100% in + H doesn't put 100% in = D. I put 100% in + H does but we still don't recover = D. I put a 100% in + H does = recovery. I can't even fathom the last equation being the outcome after all of this, but we'll see. Putting Dr H's principles to the test, I guess. If he can turn my resentful and ready for D mind around, I will be a fan for life. But even if recovery doesn't happen, I go out with a bang and know I couldn't have done anything else before walking away.

OK. Have to go fill some needs and meet my H for lunch, kids are home so we have moved our lunch dates to a swimming beach in between his work and our house, so kids can swim while we spend time together. Really do love our dates, can't believe we never did this before.

So you are not going to hear any more whining from me all summer. I promise. Maybe some updates but no whining. Its either all in or all out at this point, no in between. I can't stand the in between. I will be lurking though, keeping track of RQ and some of the other stories that I have invested in. Thank you all for your help and guidance, sorry I am so stubborn.

unwritten, my heart hurts to hear this. But I DO understand. It is absolutely your choice, as it is for all of us BS's, to know how much we can handle and when to stop trying. I know I have felt that way myself at times, but know I have to put in more time and effort to be able to say that I did all I could. Who knows, I may be posting the very same thing one of these days.

I am hopeful that following the concepts and letting go of your resentment and anger will facilitate a great marriage for you two. Keep me updated and please stop by my thread every now and then!

Take care, friend

Thanks RQ and Chickadee.

I have put a 'mental timeline' on my sitch several times, the date came and went with no action on H's part and no grand move on mine. I am pretty sure he thinks I will never leave because I never do. Nothing I have ever done has spurred H into action, and that is not why I asked for a D now. As it stands right now, I am going to file. He has the opportunity to have 3 months to turn that course around. Rather than the other way around.

I realized I didn't need to be married that bad awhile ago. It is one of the problems, I think. For a decade I lived and breathed trying to make H happy with me (in all the wrong ways). Sad and pathetic. Then rebellion, and I was so PO'd I did everything I could to SPITE H. Total opposites but it was still all about him. I remember praying to please just make me not CARE about H, so I could move on. And unfortunately, it seems I got what I asked for in some ways. I embraced the idea of being divorced and moving on with my life. Now, its hard to let that go and jump back in to the fire.

Meanwhile, seems so bizarre to be putting my energy into this after typing all that. But I am. Lunch yesterday was very nice. Kids swam, it was 60 degrees little chilly for swimming but they don't care they are tough midwestern kids. H and I talked. He told me how much he loves meeting me for lunches its the highlight of his day (well I should hope I trump business meetings and papers with numbers... ).

We also talked on his way home from work about several things. All in all how to attack this with a vengeance, work every day on our M. We had some logistical things to talk about and he said they seemed irrelevant now, I told him they should ALWAYS seem irrelevant when in the same 'to do' list as our M. That I feel like we are busy and every other thing takes priority over spending UA time together, need meeting, doing our MB materials, etc. That when we have a to do list that stuff should ALWAYS be on the top of the list. Then when he got home we sat and talked at the kitchen table for awhile longer, about needs and how well we are meeting each others needs, which ones we aren't and why. We discussed O&H and how he still doesn't meet that need because he hides so many of his feelings on things (conflict avoidance). I think I got him to understand how this is deceptive and damaging. Also about SF, what I need from him to feel like that need is met, and he told me what he needs from me to want to meet that need (more DS support, more attention to PA). We are stuck on Admiration, which is a top need for both of us, I'll write about that in another post as this ones getting long.

Went on to an evening of doing Assignment 1 in our MB materials. We have done Assignment 1 before, but clearly re reading materials is not beneath us, lol. Clearly we didn't learn a lot the first time around! Then we were going to have some more...ahem...need meeting time but somehow we both fell asleep with books all over and my poor little doggie still in his kennel (he usually gets out to sleep in bed when it is time for 'sleep'). All in all, I feel it was a very productive day.

So PA. I have a little bit of a hangup about this, talk me down from it please. I am 5'10 and wear a size 6. I was very thin when H and I met, was more a normal weight when we got married, then with every pg gained about 60lbs regardless of how active I was or wasn't. Silver lining: big healthy babies, my last was almost 10lbs, lol. I lost the weight after every baby, of course my nice 6 pack abs have never looked the same boo hoo but I digress. Now being tall I fluctuate within 10-15lbs and yes I can tell a little more weight here or there, but basically I am not 'overweight' by any means and fall within a normal weight range, when we got married and when I was in the rebellion stage I was at the very low end of that and now am probably close to the mid to high end after a lazy winter. Still squeezing in those size 6 jeans tho! I guess I just don't weigh myself every day or obsess about it, I know when I am being disciplined and when I'm not, am active by nature and just try and naturally balance that without obsessing over a scale. I am a bit of a tomboy and not very primpy, but I am naturally a knock out and not afraid to admit it. I do not care about PA, so it makes no difference to me, but I get a LOT of attention for my appearance, even in my old age:) .

I could tell during the rebellion phase that H was way more attracted to me. Some of it was that I was sad and pathetic for years, lost my sass and confidence, and because of that didn't take care for myself and look as nice. And during rebellion I became sassy and confident again, and took better care of myself. Since then my weight has fluctuated a little (yet still in a normal range) and my attitude has not, I am still sassy and confident. But he is not as attracted to me anymore. I called him out on that last night. He always says PA is not important to him but I can tell thats not true by our history. As part of our O&H convo I said you need to tell me the truth about this. He admitted PA/weight, etc. is more important than he lets on. He would like me to be the weight I was when we met. When we met I was pretty far BELOW the normal weight range for my height and ate one meal a day at best. Wasn't a very healthy lifestyle. Now, I can admit that there are things I can do to improve PA. I have had a lazy winter and need to lose a good 10-15lbs this summer, bump up my workouts. And I also can primp more. He mentioned that I have incredible sex appeal and I need to use that to my advantage more. I do have incredible sex appeal, but I have kindof turned that off as part of my boundary setting around other people, its hard to have it with him and not in general you know. So yes there are things I can do to improve. But I guess what I am saying is that, I am as is a very attractive woman. Without even putting effort in. I feel like as is he should want SF with me, there is certainly nothing about me that is a total turnoff. IDK I guess I feel like his expectations in that dept are a little off. Frankly if I get to the weight and body that he wants, it will require near starvation on my part and a VERY disciplined lifestyle, and probably some cosmetic surgery on my mama abs.

I guess my question is how far does one go to make their spouse's PA need happy? He rates PA not even in the top 5, yet he says it is a reason for not wanting SF as much, and I guess without posting a photo of myself I can only say, I think thats a tad ridiculous. Help me understand this need better, it is not a need of mine.