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I have struggled immensely with focusing on the future, much less the present, and not dwelling on the past, clearly. Dr H's recommendation to never talk about A's again??? Just felt to me like H was getting away with highway robbery. I have seen progress though. The progress comes when I feel, even slightly, that H has a little bit of a grasp on the damage he caused. I dwelled on it and as he said 'twisted the knife in' over and over because I just felt like he didn't GET IT. And I was going to make him get it, one way or the other! Once I started to feel he understood the true extent of how bad he has hurt me, or the damage he has caused our M, then the past and nailing him with it didn't seem as important anymore. Not sure where Kiss is there, but that was my experience (still is my experience, still in the mix of it, I guess).

My H also says he feels like being on the forums too much is wallowing in the A, that it is unhealthy at some point to be on the forums. To some extent, I agree. No offense to anyone here, but I think those who know my thread will agree with me here. I know that rather than TALKING about it I need to TAKE ACTION on it, and actually work hard to recover rather than complain about why we aren't recovering. But that all being said I've learned so much on these threads, that I have been able to apply to my own situation. Every day I read new comments from one person or another that make me see things in a whole new light. I can only think that is good for us at the end. Also, after I found out about H's PA, I told very few people. A couple close friends, who wanted me to leave him and didn't want to hear about anything unrelated to leaving him. I felt very isolated and alone, and that nobody understood what I felt like. Being on here has obviously made me realize there are many, many people who know exactly what I feel like. And people who want to see my M recover and don't just want to help me find a place to hide a body.

I think it is a process. I have times now where I step away from the forums for a few days, and I know you do too. Maybe those days get longer and longer. But I do think it is good to always know you can come back for support, when you need it. I assume, since I am nowhere near it, that the stronger your M gets, the less you need this support. But hey, what do I know.

Glad to hear you are doing ok. Keep us updated.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Question for anyone, do you find yourself triggered by things you read on the SAA forum? Kiss thinks that it doesn't help me to read those posts and keeps me in the past. Does anyone avoid the SAA forum because of the triggers? Just curious. I agree to a point with him, but it's not like the A isn't on my mind most of the time anyway, KWIM?

Yup. That's why we have posters who leave and never come back because they don't like the triggers and pain it invokes in them.

Kiss may be onto something with you. You are the one that knows yourself and what you can or can not handle.

So does it cause YOU too much pain to read the SAA forum?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Unwritten - you are right about needing the support. I have no one else to talk to about it since I am avoiding discussing things with my family and Kiss doesn't want to talk about it...so I come here. Otherwise, I feel pretty darn lonely. As for them "getting it", I honestly don't think our WS's ever will since they didn't live it like we did.

Brain - I think in some ways it does cause too much pain and I should avoid it. I usually just read the advice given to the WS's to see if kiss is doing what others are being told. But maybe since he is now posting (sort of) then I can stick to the Recovery forum.


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I find it hard to not compare my H to other more seemingly regretful WH's, but I think that is a dangerous place to go. My WH would never take the time to post here or seek the help that some WH's have, much less put his all into saving our M right now. Thus, my crazy babbling thread. I have to kind of step back and not compare him to what other former WH's do, and have to accept the progress HE is making, I guess.

The support is crucial. I know that feeling of isolation, it sucks.

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My concern is this:

Does your H want you to stop coming here because he doesn't like that we all expect his actions to be better than they are? I know he probably doesn't like that a lot that is said on both of your threads comes down to him stepping up his game in recovery efforts. Maybe he knows if you stop visiting the forum that your expectations will lower.

Having said, that, I do know that reading CAN trigger thoughts of the past and bring up negative emotions. At the same time, it is important to work through these negatives properly - not just avoid them.

Only you know what is best for you, RQ, but be careful that you don't take actions based on improper motivations.

It's been 18 months since my H and I started recovery. He wouldn't dream of telling me not to come here, knowing it helps me have support AND helps us as a couple as well as helps me be a better spouse to him. But yes, there are times when I've taken breaks when needed too.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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unwritten- yes. I think we all want our WH's to be like Herpapabear!

SunnyD- I think his concern is valid because he sees how I get sometimes after reading here, but he understands that I need the support I receive from here too. But you could be right in that he knows when I am on here that I getting the strength to keep on his a$$. smile


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Question to test your powers of observation;

Think of a poster or two for whom you have a strong admiration. Think of their posts.

Now think, in all of their posts, how often do they mention their own marriage, at all, let alone any of the bad times...

Do they have their own thread?

How often do they update it?


Why do you think that you gave the answers you did to the previous questions?



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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HHH- The two posters I admire the most would have to be SunnyD and Neak. When they speak of their marriage, they speak of the here and now and not much of the past. Though it looks like it took some time to get to that point. They both have their own threads but Neak hasn't updated hers since February.

I am more of a thread jumper and can't say that I have read some of the threads all the way through. That is something I would like to do.

As for the answers I gave, I'm not sure which ones you are referring to. If you mean the ones I just gave in this post, I can see that it will take time and that I need to focus on the here, now and future and stop wallowing in the past. But I also know that I need to see actions on his part to be able to forgive and move on.

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HI RQ (I don't know if you remember me but you were the first one to respond to my post, and for that I will always be thankful)

As for me, this site has been a godsend. I truly believe I would be in the process of D without it. Being able to read the articles, threads, and interact with people that have been there, done that, has been so helpful. That said, I visit and post here and there when I feel I need some support or advice. I am having trouble letting go of the past (aren't we all) and I do feel that, for me, spending too much time on this site makes it harder to let go of the past.

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SS1 - of course I remember you and hope you are doing well (I'll check your thread in a minute).

I agree that this site has been a godsend and I have learned so muh and am grateful for the support from those who got me through the dark days.

I have been thinking a alot about spending time on this site and I think it is a good thing right now as it
1) Validates us in where we have been, and what we are doing and
2) keeps us from letting go of the past- as in letting down our guard (what was that saying about those who forget history are destined to repeat it?)

I don't want to live in the past but I do want to make sure that I have learned from it (as well as my WH) and that we are doing everything possible to prevent any future unhappiness ( whether A-related or not)

I also believe that if we had faith in our WS's that they were doing the work in recovery, we wouldn't be here so much wink

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I have been thinking a alot about spending time on this site and I think it is a good thing right now as it
1) Validates us in where we have been, and what we are doing and
2) keeps us from letting go of the past- as in letting down our guard (what was that saying about those who forget history are destined to repeat it?)

I don't want to live in the past but I do want to make sure that I have learned from it (as well as my WH) and that we are doing everything possible to prevent any future unhappiness ( whether A-related or not)

I also believe that if we had faith in our WS's that they were doing the work in recovery, we wouldn't be here so much wink

RQ, first, let me say, I'm flattered. smile

I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence here. I would advise you more confidently to take a break from the site if your H was showing 110% effort with every fiber of his being. In the posts from both of you, it has not appeared to be the case. Thus, I would hate for you to take off and have him gaslighting you and getting away with it.

Having said that, I do not KNOW that your H is not giving 110%, only you can know that for sure. There have been signs, however, in that he won't do certain things towards recovery that you need him to do and SHOULD be done, via the MB plan. So, it throws up red flags. Conversely though, you have worked with SH who has given you advice to move forward. But - has that advice been with the full knowledge that your H was not "all in?"

Where I see you sitting right now is in limbo. It's like both you and your H are sitting there with your feet in the water, waiting for the other one to get into the pool before the other one does. It's not going to work this way. You both have to dive in and get soaked, head to toe, and COMMIT to recovery.

I understand your reservations. I also understand your H's concerns, oddly enough. I know I had to make it VERY clear to my H that I was not going to stand there, whip in hand, ready to punish him at every turn when we decided to reconcile. And while he needed to earn my trust and respect back, I had to treat him with respect even as I asked for EPs to be put in place and begin our new lives together. I can't tell you how many times he assured me he would do anything necessary for me to feel safe again. I had to assure him that our marriage would be more than good - it would be GREAT - and that I wanted him to be happy too; I wanted to meet his needs.

It was the balance of both of us wanting an exceptional marriage that allowed us to jump in wholeheartedly.

Letting go of the past is hard; I'm not going to say it never enters my mind. But... I have the confidence in myself that the new me and our new marriage is better than anything that stupid affair EVER offered him! With that, and the grace of God, I press on. The support I have IRL is great but sometimes I need support from those that have been in my shoes...and I find that here.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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RQ and Sunny D,

From the other side of the fence, I could not agree with you more. I have learned so much from strong BS's like you and FWW like me (although I don't think I am quite ready for the F yet.

Thank you ladies for holding me accountable and teaching me what it takes to have and keep a GREAT marriage!

15Y


Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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RQ,

How are your and kiss's sessions going with Steve?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
HHH- The two posters I admire the most would have to be SunnyD and Neak. When they speak of their marriage, they speak of the here and now and not much of the past. Though it looks like it took some time to get to that point. They both have their own threads but Neak hasn't updated hers since February.

I am more of a thread jumper and can't say that I have read some of the threads all the way through. That is something I would like to do.

As for the answers I gave, I'm not sure which ones you are referring to. If you mean the ones I just gave in this post, I can see that it will take time and that I need to focus on the here, now and future and stop wallowing in the past. But I also know that I need to see actions on his part to be able to forgive and move on.


Thanks.



I'll tell you my observation;

When I first started posting to others, I spent a lot of time "relating" to them by doing comparisons. When we show up here limping and broken, it's comforting to think someone else might "understand" our pain, right?

Pain - emotional, physical, psychological - is very intense and internalized experience. Something we cannot fathom anyone else outside of ourselves understanding. So seemingly finding that understanding seems like a relief at first.


But, over time I noticed that it stopped helping, and instead just kept me stuck in that pain.

So, when I see longer term posters, I notice that they rarely talk about their own marriage when talking to others, and when they do they a) stick to the here-and-now as you stated, and b) do not speak negatively about their spouse.

Once the concepts of this program are implemented, any and all complaints are taken to their spouse, not here.


Thinking of that made me take a second look at one piece of recovery advice; "Once all the details are known, do not bring up the affair again."


What I now realize is not bringing it up again applies not only to conversations with my spouse, but conversation at all. Even here.

It's why I dropped all the dates etc from my sig line.


The past is real, and it happened, but it will never change no matter how much I talk about it. Today and tomorrow I can set the pace for.



There are some rare gems from some long timers, things that I can truly see now as gifts; Pep sharing her stories, the occasions that Mel shares her stories, NG providing his. But those one-shot shares can come at an emotional expense to those posters... they really are a gift.


Just thought I'd share that thought and experience with you.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Thank you SunnyD, 15years and HHH for your kind posts. I am understanding more clearly now that I do need to focus more on the here and now and on rebuilding our marrage and focus more on the MB concepts. I don't want to be a victim anymore. Will I forget the past, never. Will I still need time to heal, of course. As HHH said "it happened, but it will never change. Today and tomorrow I can set the pace for" and as you said, Sunny, I need to concentrate on a better me and a better marriage. It is what both kiss and I want and if I have to take the lead, then so be it. I need him to put a little more effort into it so that we don't return to "status quo", but I think we are on the right track. I need to move on.

BH- we have not spoken to SH in 4 weeks but we have both agreed to schedue a follow up very soon. We just need to schedule a time together during the day, which is difficult to do.

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Originally Posted by fifteenyears
RQ and Sunny D,

From the other side of the fence, I could not agree with you more. I have learned so much from strong BS's like you and FWW like me (although I don't think I am quite ready for the F yet.

Thank you ladies for holding me accountable and teaching me what it takes to have and keep a GREAT marriage!

15Y

Get our there and do the work to earn the F, Fifteen!!! smile

Accountability in this is important - for both spouses.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Thank you SunnyD, 15years and HHH for your kind posts. I am understanding more clearly now that I do need to focus more on the here and now and on rebuilding our marrage and focus more on the MB concepts. I don't want to be a victim anymore. Will I forget the past, never. Will I still need time to heal, of course. As HHH said "it happened, but it will never change. Today and tomorrow I can set the pace for" and as you said, Sunny, I need to concentrate on a better me and a better marriage. It is what both kiss and I want and if I have to take the lead, then so be it. I need him to put a little more effort into it so that we don't return to "status quo", but I think we are on the right track. I need to move on.

BH- we have not spoken to SH in 4 weeks but we have both agreed to schedue a follow up very soon. We just need to schedule a time together during the day, which is difficult to do.

There's nothing wrong with you leading recovery, RQ. Look at it this way: if you are leading, in the sense that you set the terms of what makes you feel safe and how you want things done, that's a GOOD thing!

Now: your H should be leading in terms of willingness to prove himself and how committed he is...

See the difference?

I say it all the time: the best thing I did was decide to go back to school while my H was wayward. Well, that and I became more involved with my church's women's group. Not only did it give me strength and confidence, but it kept my mind busy and some goals to achieve. We take SUCH a hit to our psyche when our partner is unfaithful. I truly believe part of being able to enter into recovery without fear is in knowing that we hold within ourselves the power to be great: greater than any fantasy world our spouse lived through - because what we are building is genuine.

Nothing worthwhile never comes easy!

You know the secret to moving on once your spouse has shown proof of their commitment? Deciding to. Simple as that. You make the decision and you start acting on your decision, even when you don't feel like it. It's because we have A PLAN that we can do this: it takes over when emotions get overwhelming.

Without a plan, one drifts along wherever their feelings take them and that's not healthy!


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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BH- Thanks for the links you have posted to him. Unfortunately, he has not been back to post or read as I have asked him to (or as he said he would).

SunnyD- I am having a hard time getting kiss to commit to te MB program. I really need him to post and read and to do our questionarres. I don't want to be the one with the "whip in hand" but I don't know what I can do. He already knows how important this is to me.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
BH- Thanks for the links you have posted to him. Unfortunately, he has not been back to post or read as I have asked him to (or as he said he would).

SunnyD- I am having a hard time getting kiss to commit to te MB program. I really need him to post and read and to do our questionarres. I don't want to be the one with the "whip in hand" but I don't know what I can do. He already knows how important this is to me.

Asking for him to commit to the MB program is not the same as "whip in hand," RQ! MB is as much for HIS benefit as it is yours! That's the beauty of it, in fact. It is designed so that BOTH partners get their needs met and are treated well. It PREVENTS "whip in hand" in fact. I don't know if your H just does not see this or he is just not all in on recovering your marriage. ???

What about doing the MB at home program? That's what we did. You have to be self-motivated and be absolutely certain to following it step by step, in a timely manner, but it can be done. There's also the online program and as you know, the personal counseling with SH.

If your H isn't willing to commit to at least doing the at home program, you have very good reason to be concerned about your future and whether or not you will recover. As it's always said - the road to marital recovery after an affair is a very narrow one. My H never posted here and we didn't do online or personal counseling. BUT...I was insistent that we follow the books/workbook to a tee. Once H got into it and saw that it wasn't a "browbeat the unfaithful spouse to death" program he HAPPILY did it. He WANTED us to have an exceptional marriage as much as I did. He didn't walk back into the marriage wanting the same old things that lead to the big crisis, that's for sure.

It makes a big difference when the unfaithful understands that the program is so you can have a happy future - it is NOT a punishment for what they did.

The only thing with doing the MB at home program is this: if your H is a reluctant participant, he will fight you every step along the way. That worries me. There HAS to be accountability - on both sides. If he WANTS a great marriage, he won't be bothered by that, or shouldn't be. In the at home program, you hold each other accountable rather than an outside source - and that can be hard if he is doing this kicking and screaming. Just to add, that's why he has been questioned on the boards to this point - his mentality. It's hard for anyone to see that he really WANTS recovery when he won't willingly see his own faults and stinkin thinkin in all this.

Do you think this has become sort of a stand off between the two of you?



"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Sunny - It's more that he says he will and that he wants to, but then doesn't. I know that he wants a better marraige than we had before, he has said that from the beginning. So I don't know why I have to be nagging him to work on this. We plan on discussing it tonight. Hopefully, we can make some progress.

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