This one will be shorter I promise. A high need for both of us is Admiration. For a long time I had a GREAT deal of admiration for H, regardless of how he acted. I had and still have a great deal of admiration for his intellegence, ambition, and success in his career. But I used to have admiration for him as a person too, his character, not sure why but that wasn't impacted fully until the rebellion phase and then when I found out about his ONS all admiration and respect for his character went out the window. And is still lost on the roadside somewhere.

I don't think H ever really had a lot of admiration for me.

My question is, how do I meet this need if the sentiment is not there?

I do try and comment on the things I am proud of and admire, like when he takes us out for dinner I comment on how much I admire his financial success and being able to treat his family like that, or when he fixes something at home how I appreciate him being a handyman. He won't accept these compliments though because he feels they don't matter, compared to not having respect for his character.

Last night he told me he would like more 'pats on the back' for the amount of work he has done on recovery, which he admits is not much. He said it encourages him when I admire the work he has done, rather than focus on what he hasn't done. I told him that it was hard for me to do that, because my expectation is so much more, it is hard to say great job when his effort is so little to meet my expectation. Also said it was the equivalent of him telling me how great it was that I don't talk to (X,Y, Z) male friend anymore, when I should never have had male friendships all along. I don't expect him to pat me on the back for that, I am embarrassed that I didn't see the damage my 'friends' caused all this time!

IDK. He feels very low and really wants this need met, as do I. He has had it met and really misses it, I have really never had it met so I guess I am just used to it. How do we meet this when we are at our lowest admiration point possible? O&H would dictate that we don't fake it, KWIM? Help please on this need.

What does he tell you is his reason for not wanting SF?

Has he had his T level checked?

He wants SF, just a lot less than I do. And never as passionate about it as I am.

He claims gf's in the past thought he was too sexually aggressive, which indicates that it is just me:(

He has had his T level checked and it is in the normal range.

His reasons are:

PA, although I have to work hard to get him to admit to that. He told me once it was PA and I held it against him. One because his ONS happened very shortly after the birth of one of our children. Now I'm sorry but I do not think a woman should be held accountable for physical appearance within a couple months of the birth of a child. And another because I am FAR more attractive than his ONS. Which makes no sense.

My sappy attitude was unattractive to him. Truth, it was pathetic and very unattractive and now I see that. It's embarrassing. But that's better now.

All the crap going on, mental anguish, I guess. Just can't mentally be there.

Last night he did say that in terms of the LB, it fluctuates so greatly right now and that just fluctuates his SF mood.

And I still think there is something to be said about how the supply affects the demand. He has had a plethora of supply, makes him think he doesn't have to work for it. Because, he doesn't.

POJA the frequency, variation, and intensity of SF. Seriously. Next problem?

Hrm. You make that sound so EASY NG. Not trying to say its complex, not to me, but then again, I always want too, in any frequency and any variation and any intensity. I would imagine its not as easy for people who DON'T want to, but I can't speak for them.

We did POJA it when talking about our needs awhile ago, and agree to a frequency. Little give and take on both sides. Variation kinda seems like a what are you in the mood for thing tho, don't really feel like that can be planned in advance. Intensity? How do you POJA that? That's kindof an emotional state isn't it?

Oh I don't know, I'm just cursed.

Your next problem is:

1) What is reasonable to expect from your partner in terms of the PA need?

2) How do you meet the need for Admiration without the sentiment behind it?

NG is correct.

Dr. Harley says when he counsels a couple and one of them is complaining about not having enough SF, that he tells them to schedule 3 times a week but before they have to have 3 hours of IC.

I think it's this clip. If not, let me know and I will find the correct one. Just getting off the night shift and need sleep.
Radio clip on SF intimacy

3 times a week? Good grief I don't want to go backwards. Our agreement is for 5 times a week and that was a compromise...

OK thanks BH I am listening to it now.

H does ask me how he can meet that need better, so he is taking an interest in it. And I in turn am asking him what I can do to make him WANT to meet it better, that's where all the PA convo and everything has come in.

OK had to turn it off because I have 'listening ears' around, will have to finish the clip later.

I am hoping that if we invest in everything else that will just come along. As always I can only do my part to do the things he asks to 'help' him meet my SF need, the rest is up to him.

Oh and with regards to the IC, and I have to listen to this clip first maybe it will answer my question. I guess my question is that neither of us have a high (top 5) IC need, SF is higher than IC for both. So I don't know that we would need 3 hours of IC before SF, good grief thats a lot. How about an hour of IC before 3 hours of...oh never mind.

glad you are back on board UW.

random thoughts

you are 5'10 and a size six - you are fine! maybe get the sass back in your attitude - could be a part of PA for your H.

Confidence is a part of PA IMHO. and you havent been there in a bit, so put on the lipstick, nails done and big smile- it will come back.

Also go out and by new M undies- throw out all the old, that would open his eyes.

how do you define admiration? how does your H.

since you mention you never got admiration, could SF be fulfilling that need for admiration for you?

you have to ramp up your IC- see how much you got from him last night, make it easy for him to talk to you, that means be quiet, you can add admiration into that conversation. "i am so glad you told me that" "i really like when you tell me how you feel"

he would like more 'pats on the back' for the amount of work he has done on recovery, which he admits is not much. He said it encourages him when I admire the work he has done, rather than focus on what he hasn't done. I told him that it was hard for me to do that, because my expectation is so much more, it is hard to say great job when his effort is so little to meet my expectation.

he probably felt like you just told him it would never be good enough. its like a kid thats proud of the B and you say BUT its not an "a". believe me i have very high expectations from my H, so i get it, but maybe you could just give him a pat on the back for starting to get motivated. I also struggle with this, but i do know i have to reassure H that he is moving in the right direction. ( positive reinforcement...)

random thoughts....

Please stop crying "wolf", UW.

You agreed to five sessions a week, right? When was that agreement reached? I'm willing to bet that it was prior to that post I quoted above. And yet you felt it...necessary?...advisable?...comforting?...to complain here about the Lackanookie Railroad you're riding.

Anyway, you have a rough parameter defining the solution to your "jiggy" puzzle. Follow it, UNCOMPLAININGLY, even to us. Why, because it's very unlikely that you can isolate your emotions from him - explicit bitching to MB will result in implicit bitching detected by XWH. Enthusiastic agreement precludes resentful, coerced conformance, right? Look, I have no idea why 0.71 times per day is not enough for you and a burden to him, but that's what YOU agreed to.

Okay, let's get out of the sack - what ELSE would you want advice on?

Man... what happened here?


I look around, and I see UW working CONSTRUCTIVELY?


Awesome.



UW - give it a week.


If that works, give it another.


If that works, give it a month.


Then 6.

Then a year.

2 years out, see how it looks.

Thanks chickadee. So I am confident right now, wasn't in the past but am definitely confident and sassy now, so that shouldn't be the issue. And ya I think a size 6 should be fine too. But he doesn't feel the same. So what do I do about that? Should I be willing to go to any lengths to have the appearance he wants? PS I always wear lipstick, have just started to get pedi's since this started (see HHH I have been doing SOMEthing here)...big smile ya that has been gone for awhile lol. You got me there.

I like new undies, I might just do that.

IDK how to say I define Admiration. I always used the words 'I wish you ADORED me' and I guess thats what I used for admiration. Meaning, thought I was the best thing since sliced bread, thought he was lucky to have me, etc. I always think you can tell that in the way a person LOOKS at you as much as what they say and the care they give you. But I do realize now I WASN'T the best thing since sliced bread, in many ways. I was just reading HNHN last night and thinking to myself of all the times in my former M life where I had a little pity party about H not loving me...and realize now that I was so in control of that and just didn't know how to fill that love bank up.

He defines admiration I guess as me admiring his character, thinking highly of him as a man. Which has taken a huge hit, obviously.

But I guess IDK how to specifically ask for that need to be met in action, nor does he.

Thank you for the advice on being quiet during IC, and also trying to encourage his progress. I will make a valid effort to do both.

UW, I'll tell you that for a man that isn't completely shallow, nothing ruins a woman's attractiveness worse than a bad attitude, you know?

Besides that, do pay attention to your manner of dress. Maybe even have some fun, and take your H out clothes shopping with you, and let him (using PoJA) "dress" you.

I hate shopping with my wife, but I love shopping FOR her. She has even enjoyed it, as I have (per her) a more adventurous eye for her clothing.

Your confidence is going to help... as will some "drive-by" flirting. Little touches, kisses, etc.

You might even do some "seed planting" by sending him suggestive messages, or making comments during the day.

Also, it is recommended (per Dr. Harley) that you schedule SF, even doing so earlier in the day when you both have the most energy.

Work it out with your H!

Oh NG. Read through the last several posts I have had, I was not bxxxhing about SF. I was stating the fact that H and I have been communicating about how he could better meet that need, and what I could do to meet his needs so he would want to meet that need. What I could do. Not bxxxhing about what he isn't doing but talking about what I could do. Dude thats progress and I thought that's what you wanted to see, so not sure why you think I'm crying wolf. Sheesh.

I am actually not complaining at all about it. Won't say the agreement is being followed all the time, or that my need in general is met, but I am not really focusing on it right now, more focusing on what I can do to meet his needs with the hope that all of my needs are impacted as an outcome.

PS I ALSO gave you very specific things I wanted advice on, but you are stuck on this SF thing for some reason and ignoring my questions about admiration, for instance.

I know I've been more than chatty today though, and you've had your work cut out for you...

Ring ding ding ding!

And until your actions say otherwise, he will continue to feel that way (any repentant wayward can testify to this).

Obviously, his past actions were not admirable.

Let it not be said that we men are not sensitive. We are. Our feelings of manhood are often tenuous.

I wonder if there wasn't a part of your M previously that couldn't be summed up here;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_happy.html

I used that failed strategy. Didn't work.

You are right. My attitude has haphazardly sucked, for a long long time.

Manner of dress. Ya I'm a blue jeans and tank top/tshirt/sweatshirt gal on a day to day basis I'll admit. I'm not fancy. Totally agree that I need to step that up.

We have actually been focusing on my flirting. I am wearing a rubberband around my wrist. I am TOO flirtatious and a little bit overbearingly sexual, I can find a sexual overtone in just about any comment or situation. Instead of being so aggressive I am snapping my wrist. Less is more...less is more...

He can schedule it. My day is pretty free and I always have energy.

PS Do you realize how much I am agreeing today? What is going on here, some alien force is taking control of my brain.

Didn't get back to this yesterday. So what is your advice HHH on how to change my actions regarding Admiration? I guess in the last couple of days I have been embracing all the many things I have done wrong in this relationship, the ways that I have made myself unapproachable in conversation, and not filled his most important needs, etc. I am not really looking for him to fill that need anymore, I am looking to myself to inspire him to fill that need, because in hindsight I see how I did not do that.

So right now even though it is a high need of mine, I am just trying to inspire it from him rather than just expect him to give it. But he is telling me it is a need that he is really struggling with because he doesn't get it filled, and is really needing me to fill it, and until he inspires that through action, after all of this, I don't know how to give it to him. That was complex... You know what I'm saying.

I will try to keep giving him admiration for the things I still do have admiration for, including his work on recovery. I think what he WANTS is for me to tell him what an amazing man and husband he is again, which I used to do. I used to brag about him to all my friends (trust me, they were all royally annoyed at how 'perfect' he was) and to compare him to other men and think no man could measure up, and I guess that showed in every little thing I said and did. Not so much anymore, and that is what he wants back. Can't really give it to him because I just don't feel that way, right now.

How do I fix this Admiration thing? I think he didn't realize all the little things I said and did all the time to give it to him until now that it is gone, and I can tell he gets depressed just thinking about it and realizing that he lost that. I want to fill his LB with admiration, but don't want to fake it.

Last night we spent a couple hours UA time, and finished Assignment 1 from our home program.

Also H scheduled a poly for next Wednesday, and I am writing up my questions for it now. Will be happy to get it over with, regardless of the outcome.

Tonight is date night, we both LOVE date night. Our date nights are 2 hrs, usually dinner and IC, followed by putting kids to bed and then spending time together afterwards too.

And now I'm off to order new bedding for our bed, and new towels for the bathroom. When talking about his high need for DS this week I asked him to identify what the greatest impacts are in the house, as in, if I can't get to my 4 hrs of cleaning on a day and instead only have 1 hr for some reason, what are the most impactful places for me to tackle that bring him some happiness and peace. He mentioned the master bathroom and how when he goes to change after work it is relaxing for our master bed/bath to be clean. (I also think when we are locked in our bedroom at night for IC/UA time it is helpful to have peace around us....) So I am going to order some bright new bedding and towels and try and make it a little more homie. I'm not very good at making things homie. Surprise surprise.

Ordered SAA yesterday, books are 25% right now FYI:) Although since I am in the recovery thread most of you probably already have them. I have never read SAA and have learned everything that I know about boundaries/EP's from this forum and website, so excited to see what else I can learn from it. We have the whole boundaries/EP's thing tight right now.

H was kindof disengaged during date night last night, but I did not let it deter me and he started to turn it around by the end. Wish I could have finished him off with my charm after our date but opposition child threw a wrench into our post date plans with a 2 hr tantrum. Oh well can't win them all.