VERY interesting. I like this guy already.


Good because it's going to require some strategery... Our previous marriage counselor did precisely that (throw one spouse under the bus) In fact, the "counselor's" actions were so completely over the top she should seriously lose her professional license over it.


The previous marriage repair program we began mandated a minimum of one "date night" per week. She agreed to this and we went on 4 or 5 really good dates, including the first overnight trip without the kids over Easter weekend. Several weeks ago her dad's condition became much worse so date night (and everything else) has been thrown out the window.

I fully recognize that we don't spend anywhere close to the amount of quality time together that is needed to repair our relationship. However this has not been my choice. She has been essentially dictating the terms of our repair process since day 1. If she's not willing to do something that I want to do (like spend more time together), her response is "This is all I can give you right now. If that's not good enough for you, I don't know what to tell you."

How we are going to get from where we are now to spending 15-20 hours a week in quality time together is a complete mystery to me at this moment. For me, I'm already on board with it and see why it is critical. For her, I'd bet $100 she's going to tell the messenger they are smoking crack when she hears this...

How much time are we currently spending alone each week? At the present moment, while her father is so ill, I'd say 2 hours a week tops.

Spending time together at night, while in bed, remains infuriating as it has been for most of our marriage. She gets in bed and begins reading, shutting me and everything else out. It's almost a compulsion with her. She *must* read before going to sleep. She often does this with her back to me which I receive as a giant FU.

Driven, the first thing to do is to try to sell your wife on this program (Marriage Builders). Talk with Steve Harley about that. If you can do that, then the abuse will be addressed as you go through the program.

If your emotional state is "I feel at the end of my rope," then you are likely to reach for abusive "tools" like demands, disrespect, and anger, as a "last ditch effort" to counter her abusive demands, disrespect, and anger. That's only going to make the problem worse. This is why people who are subject to abuse tend to become abusive themselves.

In Steve's case, his wife was not sold on the program. If Steve had gone on to follow Dr. Harley's advice for awhile, Dr. Harley said that likely his wife would have become interested in changing for their marriage. But we don't know yet if your wife is willing to give the program a try or not. Dr. Harley also said that if Steve had followed his advice, any ongoing affair activity likely would have been uncovered.

I am a big fan of Steve's show. My wife went from being sold on the program to not being sold on the program, to being sold again. The advice Dr. Harley gave out on that show was invaluable for me, and worked for me.

But let's find out where your wife is, first. No need to get the cart before the horse. Talk with Steve Harley and see what he says. You might also consider writing to Dr. Harley on his radio program.

Steve is very strategic and action oriented. The biggest bang for your buck will come from getting that 15-20 hours of UA time per week so that might be where he begins. [depending on his assessment, of course] But he will formulate a plan and then tell you what to say to get your wife on the phone with him. He will then attempt to sell her on the program.

And like Markos suggested, you can also get free advice from Steve's dad, Dr Harley on the radio show. Just send him an email describing your problem and he will answer your question on the radio. You can even go on the show if you want and talk to him. Its up to you.

You mentioned earlier about buying the book Lovebusters. That is a really good one, but the best one for you is Surviving an Affair. You have never recovered from her affair and that is the basic issue.

Driven - when you talk with Steve, talk with him about your father-in-law's situation too, as you may be able to create some additional support for your wife to return to the marriage through a crisis.

Too many times, couples neglect to leverage a crisis to strengthen their marriage. This needs to not happen in your situation as you're already strained. If not managed correctly, the crisis could turn into a breaking point. Call the coaching center right away and get on the schedule!

"This is all I can give you right now. If that's not good enough for you, I don't know what to tell you." [/quote]

I remember being like that when i was still foggy... I thought i was trying real hard (what a joke), and i was very 'poor me' orientated. But i changed... I hope your wife does too.

Spending time together at night, while in bed, remains infuriating as it has been for most of our marriage. She gets in bed and begins reading, shutting me and everything else out. It's almost a compulsion with her. She *must* read before going to sleep. She often does this with her back to me which I receive as a giant FU. [/quote]

Gosh i'm feeling like your wife is very similar to me! I do this too... and just got a whole new perspective on what this might have been like for my H.

opps sorry, don't know how to do that quote thing! must learn!

driven, could you please clarify about your in-laws? both have dementia? is your wife their caretaker? does she have any outside support for this (nurses/aids/sibs)?

i just want to know if she is caring for children and parents full time. do you guys live with the FIL? sorry if i'm missed that before.

My WH (EA) and I are currently working with Steve Harley. Before we began counselling with him, my husband was reluctant to follow the principles and had very much a wayward, independent mindset. He drug his feet a lot and I felt like I was forcing him to recover our marriage. Steve talked to us separately and gives my WH assignments to work on as we "treat the wound". Sometimes I have homework too. I highly recommend calling and setting up your first appointment ASAP. It is expensive, but the best counselling I've ever experienced. It is systematic and he will be her coach and hold her accountable so you can just focus on your own "side of the street". Each session he talks to me and I report to him how my WH did on his assignment. Then I put H on the phone and he instructs and helps my husband. How my WH looks at the whole process has completely transformed. It is amazing. Don't wait! Do it today! (I am not paid to say this. I wish I were!)

FIL has a terminal illness and has been in home hospice care for a year. In laws live 45 mins away. MIL has dementia and we are just now realizing how badly. FIL got much worse about 2 months ago and was near death as of couple weeks ago. We thought it was the end but he has perked up some. We moved him a week ago to a managed care facility because his care requirements were more than we could sustain. Until we moved him, he required 24/7 care at his home which is why my wife (and I) and other relatives have been spending so much time there.

I have done my best to be incredibly supportive and helpful to her during this difficult time. This is especially difficult for me because FIL became very antagonistic towards me and our marriage after WW spent months slandering me and reinventing the history of our marriage to him (and the rest of her family).

Coincidentally, FIL abandoned his own wife and daughter (WW's much older 1/2 sister) after 17 years. We had been married 17 years when D-day occurred.

This is encouraging to hear, thank you.

I scheduled my first appointment with Steve for next week. Really looking forward to it...

Good job. Keep us updated.

FIL died yesterday... It's the beginning of a new era. Things are either going to get better from this point (she will commit to the marriage and begin working to make it better) or things will get worse.

FWW turned 40 this past year. She definitely has the mid-life crisis thing going on and I firmly believe this contributed to her fiercely independent behavior leading up to her affair.

Her mother died young, she turned 40 this year and her father just died. Her mother died at age 50. My wife litterally says things like "I'm too young to be unhappy." "I may only have another 10 years and I'm not going to waste them being unhappy."

She longs to be young and have fun. I believe this is what was so irresistibly attractive to her about the 19 year old POS (who incidentally lived with his parents and bagged groceries at Costco).

I can be really fun, have a great sense of humor and I look 10 years younger than I am, but I'm never going to be a 19-year old college student. I worry that her attraction to very young men will never go away and will be a constant threat to our marriage if we are able to save it.

What's going to happen in 7 years when our oldest daughter is bringing home and hanging out with 19 year old boys? Worries me.

Sorry for all the random thoughts. It's the coffee...

Has anyone else had "mid-life crisis" be a significant factor in WS's reluctance to work on the marriage?

I will just warn you up front that Dr Harley believes that using "mid life crisis" to describe the poor behavior of one's spouse is a form of denial. The behavior that you describe could be applied to others on this board that are ages 25 and 60. The issue with your wife is that she is very independent and has no committment to her marriage. THAT is the crisis and it has nothing to do with her age.

It may very well be that she is too destructive and indepedent to be in a marriage. But it may also be that she doesn't know or believe that she can find happiness in her marriage. That is what Steve Harley can sell to her.

Infidelity occurs when a spouse decides to be unfaithful. Nothing more is required. "Mid-Life Crisis" is a made-up phrase that exists to give a name to bad behavior by a married person over the age of forty. We call that 'infidelity' here. It doesn't deserve more introspection than that. It's just adulterous behavior.

I thought i was having a mid-life crisis. My affair started at age 32.

It was an AFFAIR - nothing more. Saying it's a mid-life crisis is like putting grandma's clothes on the big bad wolf.

Please don't go looking for excuses for your WW behavior. Call it what it is and hopefully when she 'wakes up' she'll do the same.

Please read what Dr. Harley says about the childhood or emotional state of a wayward spouse.
Requirements for Recovery From An Affair

Driven2,

I just read your thread and as some other posters pointed out there are many similarities in our situations. I discovered MB in mid-October 2011 after wasting 6 weeks counseling through another program. I began sessions with Steve in mid-November and he helped me get my wife into sessions with him also about the same time. We continued joint sessions into the end of January 2012 and then in mid-February she put her walls up and withdrew again. I continue to counsel individually with Steve up to the present.

The 3 months we were working the program together started out slow and painful, the hurt was still fresh and she did not believe things could change. But while working together things did begin to change. Unfortunately, because of memories or triggers or whatever went on in her mind, she withdrew, stopped working with Steve, and now we are in this crappy state of limbo where I, like you, am giving this my all, while WW still believes she wants a divorce and can't be happy in our marriage.

I have snooped and looked for a new OM to explain her withdrawal, but have found nothing, same as like you in your situation. Steve also does not think this is the issue, i.e. a new OM, although of course he advocates to keep periodically checking for piece of mind and I do. The issue seems to be that she contrasts what she developed with the dead OM with what she remembers/feels now with me and she has no hope that things can change. Like your WW, she is stubborn and proud and into her IBs. Like Marcos' situation, she was willing to try and started, but then backed out again. I am now trying to get her back into following the plan by using 2 strategies:
1. Demonstrating change in myself through removing all lovebusters in my own behavior and demonstrating willingess to meet her emotional needs as she allows, especially in areas I was lacking pre-affair. This is to create an environment of care for her where she feels safe.
2. Persuading her respectfully that we can restore a romantic marriage using MB and working with Steve, that this is a viable choice, and actually the choice that will give her the greatest happiness.

In the end, point 2 has to happen for this to work, as I nor anyone can save a marriage by themselves.

Just wanted to post that I had an outstanding first session with Steve this morning. He exceeded my expectations in just about every way.

Talk about divine intervention... As it turns out, one of Steve's personal hobbies (running marathons in Disneyworld) also happens to be my WW's obsession. While I have not yet had an opportunity to begin persuading my wife to talk to Steve due to preparations for a funeral tomorrow, I can tell you already that this shared interest is going to make it 1000% easier for me to get my wife to talk to Steve.

Steve was able to absorb 14 months of history and comprehend the unique challenges I have with my wife so rapidly, we still had time to discuss strategy in an intelligent way.

I'm feeling optimism for a change, and it feels good.

Glad to hear it. Keep us updated on what Steve coaches you on.