The 180 does not work and will actually cause you personal harm. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer post traumatic stress disorder from doing what you are doing. The "180" is what Dr Harley calls "Plan C" which is the most likely to lead to divorce.

I have no idea why you are on our forum if you don't want to use Marriage Builders, though? If you want to push a bad marriage program, why not go to their board?

After some heartfelt soul searching, a step back from everything and a good look at it all, I realize my WH is completely detached. He has no desire to communicate, to initiate sex, to be affectionate or anything else with me.

I asked him why and he says it is because I am still spying on him and searching. He says "search all you want" there is nothing to find. He tells me he can't deal with this anymore because I can't believe that the A is over and he is not talking to her anymore.

I am like a schoolgirl, getting all giddy waiting for him to come home, wanting him to be under my skin and I get nothing and suffer disappointment, depression and misery. I can't stop this cycle.

Anyone?
_________________________

P.S. He flatly refuses to talk about anything and yelled at me yesterday saying "never again"

We are barely speaking although he did walk in and kiss me hello. Commented positively on my drastic hairstyle change today...

So what are you going to do to break the cycle?

Call the coaching center?

Email Dr. Harley?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Is he spying on you? There might be a keylogger on your PC or phone. Does he have an admin account on the PC you use?

Have an excellent program to detect any spyware/keyloggers. Found that there were some exclusions, took them off the list and running the scan now.

Will have to make a list of what I can and cannot control and will post.

He has been better the last few days - the post from yesterday was 2-3 days old. He is not talking about anything and if I bring up anything he gets defensive and mad. He has always been this way about things that embarass/hurt/shame him.

I am changing things about myself to make myself feel better. The haircut is awesome and I love the "New" me. I have also started wearing skirts (something I only did for weddings in the past). With my new and improved figure I am going for short skirts and short shorts. Getting myself all pretty just to feel better about myself. I do feel better. And he is noticing, big time. I am also pulling back a little from him but making sure he knows that I love him and want him. This seems to be working and takes little or no effort.

He reciprocates but never initiates. He told me yesterday that he is afraid to love me. This is either because he is afraid of the rejection we had toward each other in the past or afraid that I will snap and come to my senses about all that he has done and leave him.

I often seem him as such an insecure little child who doesn't know which way is up. His being macho is for his own sake I think.

Great Plan A.

Just continue to be Mrs James Bond and keep up your carrot and stick of Plan A.

People who are doing wrong are usually defensive.

What are his top 5 EN?

Re-posted for emphasis. How long have you been in Plan A? How long will it take you to prepare for Plan B? I think you are near to that point where yon't be able to handle (physically and mentally) anymore. Start getting your legal ducks in a row

~RQ

"What are his top 5 EN?" What is an EN?

now I got it.. Emotional Needs. Yes, we did this and it was almost scary that our lists were exactly the same! The top 5 are:
1 family
2 communicaiton
3 affection
4 recreation
5 sex

To rocketqueen:

the second Dday was on the 14th of May. I just starting to implement plan A as I was in such shock after the first time and then I barely got my head on straight and caught them again! It has taken some time just to function normally and I have started to implement the plan for about a week now.

OK. I have faith in that you will know the right time for Plan B. But a lot of what you have said about his defensiveness, lack of communication, lying and wanted you to just "drop it" sounds like he is not ready for recovery and will only hurt you further (mentally). Keep that in mind and take care of yourself!

Great advice, for EVERYONE!

I am going through what feels like stages of grief. I experienced this when I lost the person closest to me, many years ago. During the past month, I was going between depression and anxiety (sometimes both) now my thoughts are mostly angry, followed by depression or sadness. It is really strange too as I am not angry on the outside. I am not picking things out on my H, my children or anyone else (thankfully) but I am having all of these angry thoughts.

I am really mad that my H had an A. I think about it and well... to heck with them because what they had for 6 months was a fantasy filled with stupidity that ended up destroying the lives of 8 people and hurting numerous others. All because they were selfish. Well if that is what my H wants... let him have it. Stupid idiots having an online A and they think it was love because they got their bodies together one night. PATHETIC! I am so happy that I am so much stronger, more loyal and better than them because I would NEVER do what they did, even before I knew how much it hurts and destroys. I feel like my H let the devil into our lives and he is still holding on to a piece of that evil in his heart. Makes me so mad!

What my H and I have shared for 15 years is 1000 times stronger and real. When we met it was face to face and touch to touch. We had a real start to a real relationship that turned into a marriage and god blessed us with twins! What did they have? Secrets, lies, songs, betrayal, evil! IDIOTS!

My H and I have made some progress and the anger is actually empowering me. After doing a search in my H's computer (have to have a look every now and then to make sure), I see that he is downloading songs pertaining to him being angry over the A too. Songs in Greek like "I'm throwing you away" "what we had was not real." "I am not bad like you" This tells me that once again we are feeling the same emotions and going through this process together.

It is so hard. I know you all know just how hard it is. Is anyone else angry?

Does anyone else feel a strange connection to their WS? It is like we are doing ok and I feel a new connection with him that feels GREAT. Yet, I often feel awkward around him. Maybe because he refuses to speak about anything that has anything to do with this and I am literally 44 days from the last DDay. ???

It is all so confusing, fueled with so many emotions and it feels like time is taking forever. I do however think he is getting over the pining aspect of his A which is good but I am still having trouble trusting and forgiveness is so far away that I can't even begin to consider it. Am I normal?

I have not been able to find out the OW's last name and expose her to her H. I have searched relentlessly, I have paid for services to find her but she has been very coy and has not even a photograph online let alone her last name.

I did however look up her email address and found that she has an account on facebook under the name of a greek goddess. She does not reveal her friends or much information at all but I can go through her photos and comments to pull up about 20-30 people that are her friends.

I have been thinking of making a bogus facebook account and sending a message to everyone I can find that is related to her on FB and let them know what she did. Surely someone in there must be friends with her husband.

It makes me so mad that she got off scott free and is free to do whatever she pleases with no consequences. From what she is posting and her happy little notes it is as if she has no remorse at all and she spends all of her time on the computer pining over MY H! Is it fair that my H and I are going through hell and she is obviously living with her guilt very well? She is also married with 2 children!

My H and I are doing well and making progress. For the first time in years I can honestly say that I love him and I believe that he truly loves me. Yet, I am scared out of my mind that she will try to contact him and throw us back to the start again. It has been an extremely difficult climb since the last time he spoke to her. He has been depressed and now he is angry at her and himself. This is tremendous progress over the pining he was doing.

I am afraid this will open a can of worms and the reasons I have for wanting to do this seem vengeful. Yet I think it might help to know that she is on a leash. I don't know...

I need a push in either direction. You guys are my only support system as my friends have completely abandoned me (even the 2 that have been through this!). So I await your kind advice and thoughts on this.

If you use the templates from the exposure thread it will not come across as vengeful.

I would not make a bogus account. I would send them from your own facebook.

Add that you're trying to get a hold of her husband to inform him of his WW's betrayl and her affair with your WH.

We are here for you and you will be doing the best thing for your M.

I'm sure out of those 20-30 people someone will know her BH or at least give you direction on how to get a hold of him.

You have read the exposure 101 thread we posted to you, correct?

The abuse started. I knew my husband was dealing with something for 2 days because he became very quiet and started brooding. I tried to ask him what was wrong 2 nights ago but he shot me down saying he didn't want to talk about anything. I left it alone.

The next day the same thing. I started to think that he was in contact with his AP again and needed to know what was going on. He became very defensive and provoked an argument so I shut up and left it alone.

Last night I had to know what was going on. I told him that I realized that I am doing all the giving and he is doing all the taking. I try to meet his needs constantly, I try to show him admiration and respect. I give affection, space, consideration... I am trying to communicate and I told him I could tell that something was going on and he was not telling me.

He blew up. Furious that we have to "talk about this again!" It has been about 45 days since DDay. I told him to take it like a man and just tell me what is going on. I told him I can feel that he is keeping something from me and to just spill it because I am so broken that nothing can hurt me now. I am titanium.

He started psychologically abusing me. Telling me that he never trusted me since we were dating and he is sure I was cheating on him then and throughout our marriage. This is INSANE! I lived with him while we were dating and he has been so controlling, jealous and manipulative for the last 10 years that I have had weeks at a time where I never even left the house. When I do leave, it is to go to the bank or the supermarket only. And he calls me to check on me. I ALWAYS take the children with me and even if I wanted to cheat, I couldn't!

When the berating started, I told him I was not taking it and decided the best course of action would be to remove myself from the situation. It was midnight and I thought I would go sit on the balcony for a little while to cool off and let him cool off. He chased me to the door, pulled me away from it, threw me down on the floor and locked the door. I got up and ran for the other door, frightened to be in the house with him and got outside. He chased me until I reached the garden gate. I held on to the gate for dear life while he threatened to kill me, to wake the children, to beat me off the gate, etc. He pulled at me, pushed me, and eventually dragged me into the house, locked the door and threw me on the bed. He told me that I had to leave, that I would never see my children again, that we are getting a divorce, that the problems in our marriage, the affair and everything wrong in the world is my fault. I was called worthless, whore, idiot, incompetent, a bad mother, a bad wife, a bad houskeeper, a bad cook. I was called crazy and a waste of life.

I started to get some clothing out to leave. To leave at that moment. I have one friend here and hoped she would be willing to pick me up at that hour and take me to the police station. I realized that I had to leave the kids for now but I would do whatever I had to. He threw my clothes all over the room and refused to let me leave. Told me after that he could never touch me sexually again. WHAT!?? As if I wanted...

I hesitantly lie down next to him and eventually prayed myself to sleep.

This morning I woke up trembling. I realized he was still home and I panicked. I pretended I was still sleeping and prayed that he would not come into the room. He left.

I have bruises up and down both of my arms. I am stranded in a village and can't get to a police station or anywhere. I called my friend this morning and she promised that if I want to leave, she will take me and her kids into her house until I can get on my feet.

I know if I leave, I can never come back. I never want to see his face again. I have been abused like this for years but it stopped for the last 4 years and I thought things were getting better because the cycle never stopped for more than a year previously. The abuse is subtle, not punching, kicking or doing any serious damage. Yet he wants control and when I do not submit, he will choke, pull, push and shove until he gets his way.

I am SO AFRAID. I AM SO AFRAID. I am trapped, I think if I leave he will hurt my friends who help me. I am afraid he will try to get at the kids. I am afraid he will try to hurt me even more. He will be home from work in 3 hours and I am freaking out. I can't run, I can't hide. I have NO money.

Someone tell me that this is going to be ok until I can do something to get out. I am alone here in Greece and everyone at home has forsaken me. My mother is the only person that can help emotionally but not financially. Yet she is old and not well and telling her this is only going to make her worse as she is so stressed and frustrated already.

In the end, it turns out that my husband was brooding over the fact that he was served a lawsuit by my ex-sister in law because when she and her brother came to collect her posessions from the family house, my husband beat the hell out of her brother. He kept this from me. WHY?

zz, of course I am not going to tell you that this is going to be OK until you can get out. I doubt that anybody here will tell you that. We all knew that his abuse had not magically gone away and that it would reappear.

I don't know what you can do from your position in a remote part of Greece, but you must do something. You must get away. I cannot believe that the Greek authorities will let a man attack his wife like this and not help her, or let her lose the children.

You have bruises. They must be verified while they can still be seen. Get to a doctor and a police station, with the children. Don't leave your children behind.

I take it you still haven't told them about his affair because you don't want to break their hearts?

How has appeasing your H worked for you so far?

Tell your kids, and get out of there, zz.