Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
J
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
Every time I've read your thread in the last week, I think of 1 Cor. 6:18 -- "Flee from fornication". That is all you're asking him to commit to doing -- fleeing from a circumstance and an individual that puts him (and her) in clear and present danger for sexual immorality.

As as Christian, I can't see why he'd have a problem with that.

Of course, we can all see plenty of reasons why a fleshly man would rather not commit to stringent no-contact.

Which does he want to be?

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Armymama, thanks.

Yesterday evening while cleaning paintbrushes, my husband suddenly turned to me and said he would sign the NCL as is.

He signed it this morning and we mailed it.

Brainhurts, my little computer won't play the MB radio clips from a link. I've been with my WH so much in the last several days, I haven't had time to figure out how to get to the clips on the MB site. I'll do that.

He is out with youngest adult child and godmother shopping just now. His injury will mean at least another week home.

Maybe I will find out you are right and I wrong, but I think he is committed to our marriage.

My WH's situation is not as laden with opportunity for wandering as other WH's jobs. My H is not in front of a computer while he works or even with other people except in the mornings as the workers get ready for their day's labor (which again involves no computers). His job is connected with the federal government, which means he periodically gets tailed by a federal inspector in normal random checks to make sure the work is going as it should. He must finish within required hours -- no chance for secret meetings. He has no way to communicate with anyone during the day except by cell phone and he knows I check those records.

Because he is an off-again, on-again money manager, I have carefully managed our money for more than a decade. I have access to all financial records and would know immediately if unexplained expenses began to appear or unexplained money disappeared.

This past week he and I exchanged usernames and passwords for all electronic communication paths, and deleted OW and family from those, as well as deleting numbers from cell phones. My H knows I will query unfamiliar numbers in the cell phone record and check all other records.

He knows that any discrepancy in the time it takes to come home from work will be queried. He never leaves early for work.

I don't believe he wants to go back to the situation with OW. Maybe he has more conscience than some other WHs. I think also he just really doesn't want to be a WH any more.

Maybe he is a really good guy and this thing is over, though my diligent watchfulness can never be over.

I can be with him every minute he is on his laptop if I want, and he knows I will walk in randomly and look at his screen.

My carefully opening to him all potentially private aspects of my own life has influenced him to do so as well.

I do feel Plan A has worked. My H may be what Dr. Harley would consider a reluctant spouse, but he is not someone who just lies about everything or is persistently irresponsible with money and work. He lost his job in 2001 as many did after 9/11 but has held this present tough job since early 2002 and kept this family afloat. He indulges no expense for himself; my frustrations over money are at an end because we really do POJA with all financial matters now -- have been for more than a year and it is working well.

I'll try the radio clips through the MB website.

Got to get some work done. Was all morning with H at doctor's about his injury.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
Here's some advice on the links.

Originally Posted By: nikkin

Your links don't seem to work:( In fact everyone's links to the radio things don't seem to work for me???

Originally Posted By: high_road

nikkin,

I've seen in a couple of threads that you can't listen to radio clips. It sounds like you either don't have Flash installed or you have an outdated version.

Go to http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/ and see if installing the most recent version will help with this.



FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
Struggling,

Mailing the NC letter is a good step.

I am confused about some things you wrote. You said that your H's work and lifestyle don't provide an opportunity to have an affair. So, how did he have an EA with this OW? Some of it was by computer and you don't have a keylogger installed.

Conscience has little to do with it. Ending an A and recovering a marriage involves 1. no contact forever with OW 2. changing the environment that allowed the A to occur 3. establishing a romantic relationship within the couple.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
You're right, ArmyMama, about conscience having "little to do with it." I know my WH felt guilty -- especially when the EA was even partially exposed -- but that didn't stop the EA.

I was trying to explain that I don't leave my H alone with the computer any more. His work environment leaves no leeway for computer contact.

The EA happened mainly at church and at the home of one particular couple in OW's circle of friends. My H established a sort of parachurch group that included OW, those friends, and a few others. His and my mutual friends were in the circle of elders, which is not OW's circle.

The parachurch group would meet some at our home and some at this other couple's home. I was not always able to go with my H to the meetings/social nights, esp. 2009 and 2010 when several of my family members were mortally ill and then dying.

My H saw nothing wrong with us having some friends not in common. I tried to not feel threatened by it. I wished he would help me more, but he was not responsive to my requests.

Once I found MB in about late March 2011, I saw that my situation was a classic one for an affair.

My H knows there will be no more contact with OW's circle. He says he misses them. I don't respond when he says that, because I will no longer let myself in for an argument.

The few church friends we still talk to and see include the older couple to whom I first exposed the EA. This is a very different circle in character from the circle he had created around himself.

My H knows I will talk to the older couple if I suspect anything and that I will talk to other friends in the older couple's circle as well. He knows they will support me.

He knows I refuse any associations that cause my internal alarm to even twinge.

The part of the EA that occurred by computer was much less than through church. After I found OW and WH in real-time online conversation in the middle of the night in Feb. 2011, I started making sure my H and I always went to bed at the same time. In the evenings whenever he was using his laptop I brought mine in to the little office area and sat beside him working.

That is why he and OW turned to texting in summer 2011. My H would erase all record in his phone of calls and texts. When at last I accessed the Internet record and he knew I had a way to check up on him, the texting and calls ended.

He knows I now can no longer be pummeled into backing off if I exert diligence -- that I will tell kids and family and friends if his behaviors resurface.

I think my H is vulnerable to an EA via the "damsel in distress" route. I am not a damsel in distress and I don't stroke my H's sense of adequacy from that direction. OW stroked his hero complex in spades. Apparently she has been unhappy for many years and has created her own roster of vulnerable men who respond to her distress while her marriage continues downhill.

My WH himself did re-start the hero fantasy with OW a few times. Before we finally left our church, I had discovered and protested the EA a number of times. The contact would back off for a while, and then I would discover it re-starting by more clandestine means. My H defended OW saying he himself had initiated contact by asking how she was doing because he got worried about her.

It was hard for me to combat a fog that was self-created. Exposure alone does that. I can't believe I resisted exposure so long. I guess I wanted to preserve my kids' illusions. They didn't need that.

My goal now is to keep affirming my H and find ways to engage him with me in things that advance our family and our dreams. Church was one such route for a while, because about two decades ago my husband felt called to become a pastor. Our heavy involvement in church was part of making that dream a reality.

Some of my pain over this EA was seeing that dream fizzle badly. But I won't look back. We have other routes to explore.

This forum has strengthened me enormously to move on.

Meanwhile, I AM learning about keylogging programs.

Last edited by Strugglg2MoveOn; 06/26/12 10:43 AM.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
Ok if you're affair proofing your M.

What are your WH's top EN and how are you meeting them?

Are you engaging in any love busters? If so which ones?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Hi, Brainhurts,
I think I have eliminated my customary love busters (angry outbursts, mainly).

I also have gotten deft at not letting myself start or be dragged into arguments. In a sinful-nature, selfish way, I love to argue and be the one that is right. This has been terrible for our marriage.

My husband automatically turns to argument devices without realizing it when he feels put on the spot. I'm finding many ways to approach tough issues without sparking that on-the-spot sense. I don't let myself drive to be right all the time.

The POJA has been HUGE since I discovered it on the MB site in March 2011. Hugely helpful, I mean.

I tried to get my H to list ENs more than a year ago. It wasn't time. I could do it now, I think. I know he likes to be the center of attention at a party and is a marvelous host. We don't have a party circle just now.

Must go -- thanks --will check in later --

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
I would have both of you do this.
EN questionnaire
Love Busters questionnaire


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Yes, I can find a way to do those questionnaires.

My H will want to feel like things are okay, at least for a while. So I have to come at the questionnaires roundabout. Maybe not use the questionnaires themselves, but use their basic content.

We have done a lot about eliminating love busters. I introduced those last year and my H has been good about eliminating independent action (we both had to work on that). We don't do angry outbursts any more (though he did some last week during the crisis as we moved toward the NCL -- and in face of my calmness, had to admit he was the one yelling). Apart from MB, on our own over the years, we had already done a lot to address annoying habits, selfish demands, and disrespectful judgments, though having them identified the way MB does is quite helpful.

Dishonesty is the Love Buster we are working on now. At this time I would consider it addressed.

At the moment I feel like OW is finally out of the picture (even if keeping a lookout never will end).

But I also feel like I don't have much intellectual or creative life with my H. The dream of my life is for him and me to work together on creative things. We are equipped by our training and inclinations to work together. But he very rarely wants to. I've directly asked him to a number of times. He says he can't think of a way.

He worked intensively on event-planning type projects with OW at the church during the awful years.

We have worked very well together raising our kids. I have been supportive of his personal projects and he is supportive of mine. But he won't work on creative things with me. I've asked him if I need to change something to make it happen. He says that's not it. He just can't think of how we would do it.

It may be that he has emotional needs I don't pick up on, despite my efforts, and those needs block his desire to work with me.

He wants to go some places I don't. One upsetting discovery during our winter-spring 2011 crisis was that he and OW had created a fantasy beach together on FB. He insisted that it wasn't just between him and OW -- that OW's husband and youngest child "had also been there" as well as the couple who had social gatherings at their house (another reason I don't feel comfortable having any contact with them any more). My H didn't seem to notice that I had not even been informed of this beach, never mind invited. I am not sure what EN this fantasy fulfilled. I tried creating a FB fantasy with him in summer 2011, and he joined me on it for a while, but it fizzled.

I need for us to do the EN questionnaire. I feel like my husband tends to give me a lot and deny the intimate creative togetherness that I want most.

I just have to work out how to make the sharing of ENs happen without my H feeling like, "Here we go again. There's no end to her telling me I'm not a good husband."

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
Then you need to work on your approach when you talk to him about things.

"I would love it when.... I'd love it if you'd ....

How do you feel about....

Do you have the book "Love Busters"?

How do you bring it up?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
At first I looked at your approach ideas and thought, "Yeah, been there, done that."

I've worked hard on approach because if anything smells of criticism at all, my husband shuts down -- even things that aren't a criticism, just a note about something needing adjustment (scheduling, expenses).

But I think I tend to be more direct than what you suggest. "Can we talk about something for few minutes tonight?" "I wonder if you'd mind . . ."

I have said things like, "I'd love to be able to work with you on something [with his artistic interest]." Immediately he is irritated. He won't explore the idea or ask me what I mean.

My kids have commented to me that my H often takes even aimless comments as criticism. I feel my H's hypersensitivity has held him back in career matters.

So maybe he's just harder to talk to than some people. Maybe I'm the hardest person to hear anything but affirmation from because I am the closest.

The Lord will help me work on approach.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
Many men have the EN of admiration in their top 5 EN's. From what you have written before, it seems as though that may be true for your H. Can you find some things about him that you admire and express them?

And the MB way of asking a spouse to do something (or not) is "How would you feel if ...?" It feels stilted at first, but after using it for a while, it really sets up the negotiation in getting to a joint agreement.

AM

Last edited by armymama; 06/29/12 06:51 AM.

BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Thanks, ArmyMama.

I will use the MB approach to broaching a subject.

You're right about my H's need for admiration. I have really tried to feed my husband admiration and will continue to do so.

Reading all those MB articles tuned me in to that need in men. I am sure it fueled both of his EAs (the one for which he just sent the NCL, and one in 2000-2001 that is long out of the picture). He wanted to feel like he was accomplishing something for a hurting person who fed him undiluted admiration. Filling that need necessitated a lot of fog.

My needs are less for admiration and more for planning ways to carry forward with our life work.

Planning is not my H's long suit unless he is planning a party-type event. He is masterful at that and I used to suggest he somehow get into catering/event planning.

As far as life direction, we're back to square one. Before we joined the church that we just had to leave, I felt like our family was drifting with little direction and no plan to cope with expenses incurred buying a house. I worried about handling our growing children's needs.

Then my husband got into our church's pastoral training program. (Fortunately, he got a raise at his former job, too.) For a decade and a half, despite my H's complaints and some problems that slowly manifested in the leadership, there was a sense of direction -- I was supporting him with involvement in the church, and he was moving toward ordination as a pastor in the denomination -- a process that only partly got completed in all that time -- he got as far as being ordained an elder.

He sent a letter to the senior pastor last week, resigning from both the pastoral program and the church.

The organization that gave direction to our lives is now out of our lives.

We both have personal gifts to keep developing (I am in the process of publishing an e-book, and he writes music) -- but now our supporting community is gone. The EA destroyed my H's progress with his music. At the same time, what music he did accomplish during the EA at least had a small audience. The audience is gone. We can't be in that circle of friends anymore.

A weird dangly feeling.

I have to push on with my book and my freelance work, and pray a lot. Sometimes only the Holy Spirit can give me the answers when I come up empty.

I so appreciate your support and your suggestions! -- though I am concerned that I not take up time in the infidelity forum if the infidelity problem is no longer acute.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
If you don't feel the need to be on this forum any longer, you could ask the mods to move your thread to the recovery forum. It is pretty slow paced over there, but there are several who check in on a regular basis. Most of the threads are posters with occasional hiccups in the program or interpretations of MB principles.

Do you and your husband have at least 15 hours of undivided attention each week? My H is not a big planner either. Often, we will sit together and plan, both short term and long term.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted By: Strugglg2MoveOn
Armymama, thanks.

Yesterday evening while cleaning paintbrushes, my husband suddenly turned to me and said he would sign the NCL as is.

He signed it this morning and we mailed it.

Brainhurts, my little computer won't play the MB radio clips from a link. I've been with my WH so much in the last several days, I haven't had time to figure out how to get to the clips on the MB site. I'll do that.

He is out with youngest adult child and godmother shopping just now. His injury will mean at least another week home.

Maybe I will find out you are right and I wrong, but I think he is committed to our marriage.

My WH's situation is not as laden with opportunity for wandering as other WH's jobs. My H is not in front of a computer while he works or even with other people except in the mornings as the workers get ready for their day's labor (which again involves no computers). His job is connected with the federal government, which means he periodically gets tailed by a federal inspector in normal random checks to make sure the work is going as it should. He must finish within required hours -- no chance for secret meetings. He has no way to communicate with anyone during the day except by cell phone and he knows I check those records.

I blocked my wifes affair partners number and she just went to payphones and bought an affair phone from walmart.

Because he is an off-again, on-again money manager, I have carefully managed our money for more than a decade. I have access to all financial records and would know immediately if unexplained expenses began to appear or unexplained money disappeared.

This past week he and I exchanged usernames and passwords for all electronic communication paths, and deleted OW and family from those, as well as deleting numbers from cell phones. My H knows I will query unfamiliar numbers in the cell phone record and check all other records.

He knows that any discrepancy in the time it takes to come home from work will be queried. He never leaves early for work.

I don't believe he wants to go back to the situation with OW. Maybe he has more conscience than some other WHs. I think also he just really doesn't want to be a WH any more.

Maybe he is a really good guy and this thing is over, though my diligent watchfulness can never be over.

I can be with him every minute he is on his laptop if I want, and he knows I will walk in randomly and look at his screen.

My carefully opening to him all potentially private aspects of my own life has influenced him to do so as well.

I do feel Plan A has worked. My H may be what Dr. Harley would consider a reluctant spouse, but he is not someone who just lies about everything or is persistently irresponsible with money and work. He lost his job in 2001 as many did after 9/11 but has held this present tough job since early 2002 and kept this family afloat. He indulges no expense for himself; my frustrations over money are at an end because we really do POJA with all financial matters now -- have been for more than a year and it is working well.

I'll try the radio clips through the MB website.

Got to get some work done. Was all morning with H at doctor's about his injury.

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Thanks, ArmyMama,
I think the recovery forum is appropriate. I was in touch with JustUss2 before I accessed the forum -- I'll ask JustUss2 to move my thread to recovery.

My H and I have been making that 15 hours a week of undivided attention happen. Helps that he has been off with injury -- doesn't help the pocketbook, but it has helped us.

My H and I had a contentious encounter yesterday, of a type we have had too many times to count. Thanks to MB, and to your comment about using "I would love to . . . " I realized that my prior attempts to modify my approach to expressing a desire had not modified nearly enough. Also, my huband realized how much he tends to misinterpret what I say as struggling for control instead of just expressing a desire. I find hom hypersensitive and he finds me rude.

I told him that his feelings were important to me and I would work much harder to modify my presentation b/c I want my H to be comfortable.

He immediately extended me credit for wanting to negotiate solutions best for both, not gain control.

We've had much more profitable disucssions in the last 24 hours -- not about the EA, b/c in minor ways he keeps acknowledging that, however each of us may view that relationship, complete dissociation is now necessary. Instead, we've progressed to discussing problems we both have with how the theology of our church had changed compared to when we first joined it. We are finding the common ground we need to search for a new church.

Plainly my deafness to my H's hurt at my "rudeness" contributed to the climate that fostered the EA. I'm not excusing him. I'm just saying, here's another piece of the puzzle.

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Thanks, HDW,
Sure, if my H is still bent on keeping the EA going, he could find a way around any watchful devices I instigate.

I have not been seeing the time discrepaancies that using a pay phone would entail. He absolutely can't use a pay phone while at work, and he has been off work and with me almost every minute the last two weeks b/c of his injury.

Concealing a separate affair phone would be difficult b/c I periodically clean out my H's car, his side of the room, etc. -- been doing that many a year -- not always happily, but I tend to be a better stuff organizer.

He does not have a way to pay for a separate phone w/o me knowing; I have watched over finances for many years b/c I am good at keeping track and my H really isn't.

There are countless things he IS good at and I rely on him for those things; but administration of the keeping-track type is done by me.

That's why I discovered the EA in the first place.

My big error was trusting my friend not to keep the EA-type contacts going after I confronted her in 2010. If I'd known what MB has to share, we'd have left the church then. Temptations overcome the best of hearts -- MB has helped me understand that reality.

How did you cope when your wife used the pay phone and the affair phone?

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,271
Likes: 2
If you have all your questions answered you must stop talking about the affair. You've read/heeard what Dr. Harley says about this, correct?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Hi, BrainHurts,

Yes, I've read what Dr. Harley says about not talking about the affair any more.

My struggles with false recovery owed to my following the no-more-mention rule without having instituted the other necessary actions (enough exposure to kids, family, friends, not just a few counselors; commitment to share all passwords etc.; leave the climate in which the affair occurred -- our church -- didn't do that nearly soon enough; NCL; ways of keeping close tabs).

This time a year ago, I was limping along trying to keep my mouth shut when I was seeing red flags all over, still attending our church, not exposing, and not obtaining the NCL.

Now these things are accomplished. I have not spoken of the EA. Now my H and I talk about our future together.

Until I got on the forum and enacted the rest of the SAA steps, I kept having a dream in which OW would show up in my house or at a family picnic and I kept telling her to just get out and stay out. I've had no recurrences of that dream.

At this time I combat floating sadness -- so much time wasted, so much foolish behavior and pain -- but at least I know how to not let my H treat me that way anymore. I kinow how to treat him a lot better, too. On to the future. :-)

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
Hi, just wanted to say thanks for everything.
My WH has been home since June 19 with a work injury, so we hve had a lot of time together this summer.
We have become ever more separate from our former church body. I've healed a lot from missing everybody; we still are in touch with a few friends who were not in OW's circle.
Now I'm able to assess ways in which I held my own life back by devoting so much time to church work. I was looking for a level of companionship that replicated some conditions of my life when I was transitioning from child to adult. I think there are ways in which our marriage never deepened because we did not realize how much we had to put into it. Our focus on each other these last 2+ months has helped a lot. We have continued to identify and disown hurtful ways of relating to each other that were always present in our marriage to a degree. We'll always have our weaknesses, but we have identified so many of them that everything between us works better. That intimacy that we both want is happening.
It is plain to me that even if OW left our former church, we could never go back, because the climate the church sets up, while loving, tends toward inappropriate closeness without the clear, firm boundary definition that Marriage Builders provides.
Again -- thank you so much.

Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 44 guests, and 44 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mwid, Shepherd, alg, Pelican89, SRL
71,673 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,526
Posts2,322,551
Members71,673
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5