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During this time, I was online trying to find answers to what was happening with my life. I read many books including HNHN, but had not yet found MB. I did connect with a Counselor on line that was an Infidelity Specialist. She provided a great deal of comfort for me. If I hadn't of found her, I don't know if I would have survived Sept of 2011. I had read James Dobson's book on Tough Love. Besides being a Dentist, I mentor post graduate courses. During July, I cancelled all my out of city teaching programs. However, during the end of August, I was committed to going out of town for 3 days. I expressed to my husband how this made me feel so uncomfortable as this is when he had time to spend with the OW. He reassured me and My Husband told me that he would call me every day from our home number. He would call me at 5 am every morning from home, then at 10 pm every night again from our home number. Little did I know that when he called me every night from our home number, he would leave, go to her house and then call me at 5 am from our home number helping me feel secure that he was always home. Those Waywards sure are sneaky!!!! That thought never crossed my mind


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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I truly believed at this time he was being faithful. However, I countinued my Snooping. In September when I was home from the 3 days away, I was able to snoop on his cell phone, where I found texts to the Skank saying that he "loved her madly" and that "he would be able to hook up with her when I went out of town".

In September, when I found these new text, my self esteem sank to a New Low. Little did I know what a sucker I had been. I still did not know about MB and I told him to leave the house. He was probably happy as he felt he "needed time and space" meaning time to be with his Skank 100%.


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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In the beginning of September he left our home and went to his mother's home 10 miles away. My heart was broken. The first weekend in September we were hosting a Baby Shower for my son and daughter in law for about 60 people. The invitations were already sent out. I knew he was still seeing the other women. What to do. I decided I want to give him a taste of what it family is like. 2 days before the Baby Shower, I told him he could join us to celebrate the birth of our 2nd grandchild.


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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Did you have a question, Bikerwife? How can we help you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Bottom line is from Sept to Nov 1st my husband was gaslighting me. I thought we were working on our marriage, but I chose to believe him when he said "he had gotten in too fast, too deep" and it was going to take time to get out.

She had given him keys to her apt so on Halloween, my husband and I were together, but he seemed off--not happy to be with me. Little did I know that when he dropped me off at work on Nov. 1st, he went over to her apt. She had a sign on her door--Halloween Revelers--DO NOT DISTURB! When he went to her apt on Nov 1st and saw the sign, he thought it meant Halloween trick or treaters--do not disturb. He went into her apartment. He found her in bed with another man.

Perhaps I should be happy, but my husband was distressed that the skank had betrayed him. It wasn't until Nov 16th that I found all of this out. In December he decided to recommit to our marriage.

I did not find Marriage Builders until March 30th. Our Marriage is limping along--sometimes I think it is fabulous, but other times he doesn't seem as remorseful as FWH on threads I read such as Glove Oil and Her Papa Bear.

I feel I'm a great wife, yes, maybe my side of the street wasn't as clean as it should have been prior to the Affair. But, I have been working so hard to be the Best Wife I can be, that I just feel I work at it way harder than he does.

Question--I know I am extremely Ultrasensitve with a lot of triggers. I want to be a great wife, but I want to have a great husband. Sometimes, I don't know if I'm asking too much of him. I read posts from Her Papa Bear, and I don't hear the remorse or willingness to do whatever it takes to make me heal. Am I asking too much of my husband at this stage? I question myself every day---is he really sincere when he says he loves me or is he playing me still?


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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The last time that I know my husband has seen the Skank is on Nov 1st when he found her with another lover. In the beginning of February, she sent a letter to me via USmail to our home asking my husband to return the gun that he had given her for a gift. My husband knew about the NC, but when he got the letter he chose not to tell me. He kept the letter in our spare car. 3 months later, in May, when i was snooping in our spare car, I found the letter and confronted him. He said he never contacted her, didnt tell me cause he didn't want to upset me and just forgotten that he saved the letter in our spare car. I do a lot of snooping and have a keylogger on his compurter and have access to his cell phone. I don't feel that he has contacted her, but I take nothing as a given as I have been fooled before.

My gut is a good detector. When something was amiss before, I sensed it. I do sense he is being honest with me. However, I don't feel his remorse that I sense in the texts of other FWS on threads. We listen to MB radio together every day and talk about MB principles. However....I still don't trust. Perhaps, it's because I read so many thread where one post, posters think they are in recovery and then down the line, they were fooled again.


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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I have emailed Dr. Harley for help in a letter today to mb radio. I have also emailed Steve Harley for help and will start counseling. I do want to save my Marriage. I just feel that although my husband wants to stay together, HE DOESN'T HAVE the motivation I do. Is that disrespectful? I do want to respect my husband. I just want him to step up to the plate more. Does he kick back because he is so sure of my love?

Time for bed... I do have to work in just 5 hours, but feel so sad that I am soooo many months into what I thought would be Recovery, but maybe not???


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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Originally Posted by Bikerwife
Time for bed... I do have to work in just 5 hours, but feel so sad that I am soooo many months into what I thought would be Recovery, but maybe not???

It's not the amount of time that's important - it's what you do with it.

Your H has most probably been in a sexual relationship with this woman for years.

It's great that you are looking at counselling with Steve and have called the radio show. Your husband needs to go totally no contact with this woman - verifiable by you before there is any hope.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Originally Posted by bigkahuna
Originally Posted by Bikerwife
Time for bed... I do have to work in just 5 hours, but feel so sad that I am soooo many months into what I thought would be Recovery, but maybe not???

It's not the amount of time that's important - it's what you do with it.

Your H has most probably been in a sexual relationship with this woman for years.

It's great that you are looking at counselling with Steve and have called the radio show. Your husband needs to go totally no contact with this woman - verifiable by you before there is any hope.


Exactly what Big K said.

No contact with this OW for life is vital for your M. Very glad you will be coaching with Steve. Keep us updated.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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BW,

Now that you've done it, you've told your story and reviewed everything up until today, do yourself a favor and put that load down, OK?

You can't change the past, sister. So now you concentrate on the present and the future.

Did you expose your husbands affair? Was his OW married? Did you expose the affair to her BH if she is?

Even if the affair is over and contact has ended, if she is married you will want to expose her to her husband, as it will throw a wrench in any attempts to reignite the affair.


With your profession, you may also consider looking into moving several states from your current location. In fact, you might even do this without your husband (if he is reluctant) and allow him to follow if he is serious about meeting your conditions for reconciling and recovering.

Moving has several benefits to marital recovery; it removes environmental triggers for you, and it creates distance between your WH and his affair partner that, again, makes it more difficult for the affair to rekindle.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by Bikerwife
I have also emailed Steve Harley for help and will start counseling. I do want to save my Marriage. e not???


Hello, I want to comment on one portion of your matter. First though, let me tell you the problem that brought me here was a trust issue with my W. For me that meant I trusted her to make correct judgments in our marriage as a team member, and expected those judgments to be exercised in the best interest of the team. That did not happen. We too are now working with S. Harley, and I want to comment on those sessions for you.

First, I also am a professional, and like you have attend various practice update seminars or continuing education courses: Steve's sessions are very similar to these.

Generally, you will be aware of much of what the session is about, although terminology will be different. I say that because you have read many book on the marital matter already. As you probably know though, it is the 10%, 7% 4% or 12% of the material that is presented or provided to you that gives you the 'kernel' of information that you either didn't know or didn't know how to apply it or something like that. Don't expect the sessions to be night and day, but I venture to say there will be times in each session that you ask or stop and say Hum ? I did, and the sessions have so far been beneficial. Our sessions went like this so far. I signed up for a session to make sure I shouldn't voluntarily institutionalize myself, and he assured me I was sane in my thinking. I asked my wife if she wanted to do a session, and she agreed because she had heard about MB as mentioned by Dr. Dobson. Her session also went well, and we agreed to more. I then had a 2nd and third session, and my wife is doing her second session this morning. We are then scheduled to do joint sessions following.

Best of luck with you coaching, it has been beneficial to my W and me so far.


H (me) = never wayward; age = 51; occup = attorney
W = never wayward; age = 49; occup = law office admin
Faith = Lutheran
S = age 20
S = age 19
D = age 17
Married 1990, first for both
Prior User Name "dec810" Marriage Builders 2001
"Evil will flourish, when good people do nothing"






dec #2640431 06/28/12 08:58 AM
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Bikerwife, my previous posts was based on your posts which did not give the full story. You posted your story out in blog style which made it very hard to understand the situation.

Now that I can see the full story, it is obvious that you are not in recovery at all. What is missing here is a plan for recovery. Having no plan is a plan to fail. The most glaring issue is that your husband is not in love with you and he won't be until and unless you start spending 20-25 hours a week of undivided attention time together. It takes 15 hours together to maintain romantic love and 20-25 to create. You won't ever fall in love again unless that happens.

There is a very specific path back to recovery: the marriage must be affair proofed, just compensation must be made and the marriage transformed to something better than what it was before using this program. Here is how Harley describes it:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2311122#Post2311122


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Hold Her Hand,

I found out about my Husband's affair 9 months before knowing about Marriage Builders.

I did expose to all of my family, his family, our friends, his personal friends, my employees back in July, 2011.

OW is not married. On Nov. 1, 2011 my husband found her in bed with another man. That triggered the demise of the affair.


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 142
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Thank you Melody Lane. I scheduled an appt with Steve Harley for July 6th. My goal is to make a Recovery plan. We have been spending 15 - 20 hours of UA time already. I have been snooping and from what I can tell there has been No Contact since Feb when she sent him that letter.

Since December he has slowly been coming out of the fog and for the most part I feel we are moving forward. My problem is that I still think of the A every day and need to make a plan to create the future I want and let go of this past year.


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
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That is great! I am relieved you will be getting guidance from Steve. Guys really like Steve because he is very action oriented and stays away from the psychobabble and the navel gazing. grin


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Is it normal that I still think of the A often? I am constantly reading threads and feel empathy for many of the BS which in turn triggers sadness for me when things aren't going well for them. Like many WS, my husband would like me just to focus on our future We do make fun plans for every weekend and we carpool to and from work every day. All our evening are spent together


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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Dear Bikerwife:

My husband down-played his affair for several years after I found out (he claimed it was a one-sided EA on her part; it was actually a romantic PA). Like you, I suspected he was lying, but did not have proof. During this time, I thought about the affair constantly, even though I was certain it had ended.

Once he told me the truth, I stopped thinking about many aspects of it. McDonald's, for example, was a huge trigger for me (he told me he put 110 miles on his car doing errands and looking for a McD's, when, in fact, he drove to the OW's house). Once I knew the truth about the trip, it ceased to be a trigger.

I still believe he is holding one thing back, though, and this is the thing I think about constantly.

BV


Me - WW/BW - 49
Him - CGIR - WH/BH 49
Married 27 years, together 33 (HS sweethearts)
No kids
DDay #1 - 1989 EA co-worker
DDay #2 - 2004 internet porn
DDay #3 - July 2006 EA different co-worker
DDay #4 - Aug. 2006 EA with OW #2 was actually a PA
DDay #5 - Sept. 2010 False recovery - H dishonest about both affairs and porn usage
DDay# 6 - Sept. 26, 2010 - Full disclosure - 1989 EA was actually a PA and lasted one year. 2006 PA more extensive than originally thought. 1992 ONS with prostitute.
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BV,
Why don't you ask him the specific question that you feel he's holding back on? Are you in Recovery or is your husband still in the fog?

My one year anniversary of the discovery of my husband's affair is coming up in 2 weeks. If one is to heal, is it better to speak with him about how I'm feeling w Or is it better to not share my anxiety with my husband and try and create new memories?


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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If you have all your questions answered then don't talk about it anymore. Make new memories on that day. Schedule something fun together.

Listen to these clips of Dr. Harley talking with a BW and WH on what they need to do.

Tell me what you think.
Radio clip of not to keep talking about the affair
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4




FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thank you, Brain Hurts. I will listen to them this afternoon.

Is it wrong to want my husband to share in the pain I continue to feel? 90% of our time together is great. When I'm triggered, I would like to hear him express more remorse than he has. When I first discovered the A, he covered for the OW and spoke positively of her!!! Is it wrong for me to expect him to say how absolutely nuts he must have been to think about giving me up for her. He tells me that he's willing to do whatever it takes to help me heal. When I tell him, that it would really help me if he could express in words what a fool he was. He says that will come in time.


Me (BW) 63
FWH 59
Married 30 years
FWH EA 2007 - 2011
FWH PA July, 2011 - November, 2011
False Recovery Dec, 2012 - July 14, 2016
3 adult children, 4 granddaughters and 1 grandson
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