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All: I'm starting this thread for my friend. **edit**whose wife walked out on him. He was initially in denial about her being wayward. I told him that I've been at this long enough to know a wayward when I see one. It is an instance where I'm not happy to be correct.

She got her own place. Exposure so far has happened to a limited extent, but the loose ends are being tied up. Their friends know, his family knows, the OMW may or may not know. We haven't been able to get a hold of her and either the OM intercepted the attempt to call or she's separated and doesn't care OR they have an open marriage and are swingers.

WW is fairly standard. She is totally cake eating right now and gives him mixed signals where on one end she is crying and wants to be friend with him but on the other she is clearly deep in fog and pursuing the affair regardless of cost to her.

I've been applying the 2x4s to shake him out of his fog and get him to understand that she is an addict and that he will only see results by taking specific actions. Reasoning will not work.

I bought him SA which he now has in his possession and he'll be by to post in his own name very shortly.

Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 10:16 AM. Reason: tmi
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Is he reading here on the forum yet?

Welcome Loveheraaf.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thanks helpforlostdads! We will watch for him and try and give him a hand.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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It's crazy, isn't it? I currently have 2 friends with WH's that I am trying to help. One won't do anything no matter how much I try to talk to her. My other friend's WH moved out months ago and she has done limited exposure but won't plan B. It's frustrating. I have directed the both here but haven't seen them yet. I hope your friend takes the help that is offered.

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He tried to post, but it got erased. He listens and is open to inputs, but is still on plan c.

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He has homework tonight. 1. Hangout with son.
2. Read SA.
3. Be still. Chill. Think. Come up with a plan.

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While you're studying up please read this and make sure to listen to the clips from Dr. Harley talking about Plan C.
BSs...Plan C is not a Plan


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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He just came over. Still going through some of his own fog, but I think I gave him some good advice. I'd like to bounce it off the peanut gallery.

She left. She has her own apartment and they both use his parents to take care of the kids.

I told him that his parents need to stop taking care of the kids on "her" day. If she moved out, then she loses the marital privilege and she needs to get her own daycare for her days.

I told him to quit going into her apartment to put kids to bed, etc.

I'm torn at this point on the final piece of advice. I backed up and asked myself what I'd tell a BS I didn't know so I told him to file papers to protect himself and the kids.

I told him he doesn't have to file for a divorce, but can file to establish alimony, child support, and separation. He needs a solid schedule.

A couple of details:

OM works in another state so he and WW don't work together. He lives about 50 miles away.

I told him to quit trying to educate her because it is a waste of time. He acknowledges that there's a part of him that wants to say the "magic words" that will snap her out of her insanity. I told him there is no such thing.

I expressed that he's not following Plan A and that there is no such thing as Plan B. He gives me the excuses regarding Plan B and little kids. I offered to be the IM and told him that the daycare, his parents, or his brother could be the neutral drop off point for exchanging the kids.

He says that her seeing him be strong and cold hurts her more and that it messes with her head because she's use to seeing him friendly, hurt, and wanting to talk.

I expressed that if he's in Plan A then he should use the times with her to be friendly and strong and carefree, but he's not being either at this point.

What makes this all difficult is that she's out of the house.

So I told him that he needs to file for abandonment and let her see very real consequences for leaving. She's been making every excuse in the book for not filing papers.

I told him that it is because he is her fallback guy if things don't work out with POSOM. She is doing classic cake eating.

She wants to have family time together and do things together, but only when it is convenient for her. She doesn't like it when he drops in on her unannounced on "her" weekends.

So that's where things stand today. I hope he gets on here and posts.

One matter of concern is that **edit**. She could accuse him of threatening and he would have all kinds of hell come down on him. We're in**** so using a voice recorder is illegal unless he informs her she's being recorded. Thinking about it, I will advise him to carry one with him to protect himself and to be very open with his interactions with her about recording so that there is no false accusation.

She hasn't gone down that road and I don't think she will, but she's a wayward and waywards are stupid, as we all know.

So any advice?

Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 10:12 AM. Reason: tmi
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The most impactful thing he could do for his marriage is to do a very widespread exposure, including the OM's family and friends. Exposure ruins affairs. OM are RATS who are run off fairly easily. If he exposes the affair to his family then they might not welcome his wife into their family. It would ruin the affair.

He should find the OM's facebook page and expose to all his contacts. SEnd him the link in my signature and tell him to follow those instructions.

OM do not like any trouble over a cheap piece of side action, so he should cause as much hell in his life as possible. He needs to go confront the OM too.

I agree with your suggestion for him to get legal protection. He should probably just file for divorce and drag it out for 2 years. If the affair dies in that time, he can just drop it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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The problem with "confrontation" is that ***edit***could basically cost him his job.

Exposure is done. Her family knows. His family knows. Friends know.

It has worked to isolate her. OM is basically all she has.

OMW either already knows, doesn't care, or had the calls to her get intercepted.

We have good intel that they may be swingers.

So exposure is done. OM has FB on private, but the exposure to those that matter is done.

We're looking into adultery laws.***edit***

I don't know if there are alienation of affection laws **edit** Looking into it all.

Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 10:15 AM. Reason: tmi
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So he has personally spoken to the OMs parents and his wife? If that has not happened, then this affair is not exposed at all. That is not an area where corners can be cut.

Wo exposed WHAT to her family?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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There's no 'alienation of affection' in ***. Adultery [if legally proven] is a class 4 misdemeanor here. That + $1.77 will get a BS a cup of coffee. So that's not gonna help.

Massive exposure without warning is the way to go.

I'm no lawyer, but seems to me that one option is to have someone expose things for your friend on his behalf. That could give him plausible deniability, as re: his job. But if he's worried about that angle, he ought to talk to his departmental lawyers, and his union reps. **edit**oughtn't to mean giving up the same rights as any other citizen has to fight for his marriage.

Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 10:18 AM. Reason: tmi

Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Mel,

I'm on it. I'm here with him and ask him those questions.

BH exposed to BIL, who is on his side. He tried to contact MIL. He's planning on talking to her. I advised him to text her or email her in case she won't answer her phone.

BIL already knew and says the family already knows.

I advised him to take an all business, emotionless tone with WW and focus all conversations on kids. Any talk outside of that is a waste of time so long as she's in an affair.

I advised that if she tries to argue or go outside of basic logistics, to return the conversation to the kids.

He plans on filing on Monday for separation.


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"BIL already knew and says the family already knows."

This is exactly why your friend needs to call them all personally and expose the affair. It is very likely the WW told them some spin story. It isn't exposed at all unless HE does it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I'm encouraging him to and he's not afraid to (exposure). He's trying to get a hold of MIL.

The toughest thing for him to swallow is the idea that when it is his time with the kids it is his time and when it is hers it is hers. I told him that that is the ugly truth that neither he nor she is ready for.

I told him that by going to her apartment to hang out with her and the kids feeds the illusion of the friendly divorce and is an indirect endorsement of how things are.

He's doing his best to take on the attitude that his marriage is over. I told him that taking that attitude will help him emotionally detach to take the actions necessary to either save the marriage or preserve his rights as a dad.

I told him that the old marriage truly is dead and that if there is to be a marriage at all it will be new and rebuilt.

I told him to make talking about the logistics of the kids the ONLY thing he talks about. Anything else is not to be addressed or is left to the lawyers.

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Help,

You are a GREAT friend.

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I hope he posts. He has his own degree of fog, as we all did. There's still that part of him that hopes the magic switch will go off in her head where she'll see how stupid she's being.

I agree she's being dumb.

His LB is draining for sure. I explained to him the importance of emulating James Bond. It isn't about being angry with her or being harsh or cold. It's about being cool. It's about being a man of action and not one of reaction.

I told him that he HAS to protect his legal rights because she could legally up and leave to VA with the kids and he can't stop her UNLESS he has some legal process in the works.

The ugly different possibilities got his attention.

I also encourage him to separate his finances. He says he can't for various reasons, but I know full well (and hope you guys supply the 2x4s to support) that it isn't too complicated. He needs to setup his own account to pay bills and then contact the debtors or collectors about the change.

By establishing legal papers, he ensures she is obligated legally to pay her share of the bills. She makes more than him.***edit*** So on the one end he's "using" her to pay the bills, but on the other he needs to make a statement that joint anything won't fly anymore so long as she is wayward and in an affair.

He's listening, I think.

Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 09:26 AM. Reason: tmi
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****edit*** Hope they snap out of it and realize how stupid they are being? Hmmmmmm

Loveheraaf, I hope you post. You are setting yourself (and your kids) up for serious consequences if you don't protect yourself/them from WW.

Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 09:28 AM. Reason: tmi

BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I'm the husband. First post and I appreciate everyones opinions and help.

A few points:

1) I am filing for separation Monday using my parents money so she does not see money missing from the bank (element of surprise).

2) I'm at a point where if it works it does if it doesn't I'm ready to pop smoke and move out.

3) My children are my only priority now.

4)I do not text her anymore or call her unless it involves the children. I have not given her the Plan B letter yet but I will post that for opinions (see below). Please keep in mind that **edit***my situation is delicate to keep my job and public trust.

5) She has intitiated all texts since my attitude adjustment a few days ago. She had the kids call me before bed last night(we both have calls everynight to say goodnight to the kids). She usually would hang up after, not always, but last night talked about child exchange tomm. I kept a it children only conversation. She asked when I am picking them up and I said "I have no room in the cruiser and will want to take a shower asap". She offered to drive them to me smile. I could tell she was sad (EASY and obvious to hear in her voice). The old me would have asked me "What's wrong?" or "Are you ok?". She said ttyl and I hung up with no response.

6) My plan B HAS to be my plan B because of my family not cooperating with a child exchange so she does not see me. Trying not to pay for any daycare and when she sees me only for child exchange and I am not the weak and "please take me back" person I was before (Yes the book is great so far) she is loosing her "Cake" side I provided for her. I do not pick the kids up or contact them during her time except for calling them to say goodnight. My plan B is modified but I have NO other options and it wears on her bc I am strong when seeing her. I know she wants to see (Subliminally or not) the weak me to give her strength and keep her cake side I gave her before.

7) My place in my head and heart is if she wants to come back it is my non-negotiable terms and if she chooses to leave or not agree to the terms than there is a woman out there who appreciates a honest man with a good job, who is a great father, cooks, cleans and is faithful to the core.


MY LETTER TO HER:
Not delilvered yet. Separation papers first. Btw AFAAD is "Always forever and a day". Used to end all letters that way when we first started dating. "My ****" is my reference that I told her last week that "I dont know who in the **** you are but My would never do the things you did to my and I will always love "My ". Sorry this was long. Thanks. ***** is our children name ( habit to hide stuff like that). I dont refer to the OM because he is not worth my breath.


WW,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with him possible.

I made poor financial decisions and was very disrespectful to you but I have truly changed. I also understand my lack of responsibility to meet your most important emotional and physical needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are both suffering for my mistakes and now your additional mistakes. You should know that I never cheated on you however and always loved �My *****� with all my heart and soul.

I will avoid the errors I've made in the past for the rest of my life and we can create a new life together for both of us that will meet all of our needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with him once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you unless exchanging ***** and *****. Emails, texts or conversations must specifically relate to ***** and *****. They are my only priorities in life at this time.

I will still keep my promise to �My *****� with regards to my new financial outlook on life.

You are welcome and encouraged to call anytime to speak with ***** and ***** day or night. Even if it is not your day to have them I, again, highly encourage you to make arrangements by emailing or texting me to take them out to spend time with them. I hope you would allow me to also do this to spend time with ***** and *****. This is a devastating time for ***** but especially for ***** and he needs all the time he can spend with his families.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the severe suffering I am enduring because of all of your lies, the dramatic change in your personality and worse your repeated affair with him, and I simply cannot see you any longer while you are with him or anyone other than me.

I remember great times with you like the romantic weekend of your 18th birthday and the whirlwind proposal in Ireland. I will never forget small memories or major events in our lives. I still deeply love �My *****� but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from him and are willing to follow measures that ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

We need to build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do for each other makes us both happy. Then there will never be any reason for us to separate again or find others to fill a void. I want to be your greatest lover, best friend and the only person you will ever need to be there for you when you need me for anything. I want you as my best friend.

I loved you since the day we met, when we married and I continue to love �My *****� right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing him.

Loving My ***** AFAAD,
****

Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 09:35 AM. Reason: tmi
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Welcome to MB,




Originally Posted by loveherafaad
2) I'm at a point where if it works it does if it doesn't I'm ready to pop smoke and move out.


But your wife is already "moved out", isn't she? So what does this mean? Do you live in an apartment and you and the kids are going to "move out" to say, your parents?

The fact that she left the marital home/abode should help you secure as much custody as possible through any potential divorce scenario. Although you are fighting to save your marriage you must also fight to protect your rights and your children on the back side against negative legal outcomes in divorce. Having her out and you in the marital home/abode speaks well for you. It's as though she abandoned the family and you stood by the children and courts like children to be placed, to the greatest extent possible, in familiar circumstances (i.e. - the home of their youth).

"Don't Move Out"- it's rule #1 for betrayed husbands



Another point....betrayed husbands are often eager to jump on the Plan B wagon as they look for a plan, any plan to help them desperately save their marriages. I haven't read or seen enough of your story (from you) to know whether NOW is quite the time for a Plan B letter just yet. Plan B is more about saving YOU than saving the marriage and you may want to execute some Plan A stuff BEFORE you head in to Plan B. Maybe not....but it's worth a discussion. How long has it even been since D-day??? How are you holding up emotionally? If I told you Plan A was more likely to save your marriage than Plan B today...would you tell me you just can't stomach doing Plan A anymore, emotionally speaking???? Plan B involves and ultimatum and if you aren't prepared yourself to go completely dark...you'll fail at it and completely ruin Plan B. Ultimatums don't work unless you are prepared to walk the walk.


I've called out an old poster here *****that went through this back in 2006-2007 (I don't think his is story on MB because his xw found his thread). He had some of the same issues you're having with exposure and your duties as a man.*******. We'll see if he emails me back. I've known a few posters to save their marriages and families even after a WW moved out....others have been luckily and thankfully divorced. MB will help you get to the bottom of your situation (divorce or saving it) in the most efficient and healthy manner FOR YOU and your children. Resolution is the key and MB is here to help you achieve that.

Either way....YOU WILL MAKE IT.


Mr. Wondering




Last edited by JustUss; 07/09/12 09:38 AM. Reason: tmi

FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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