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lh, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that bring you here.

I would suggest that you put off Plan B for a few more months if you want to save your marriage. You have a much better chance of saving your marriage if you execute Plan A for a while longer. You have a distinct advantage over the OM in that you a) have history with her, b) are the father of her children and c) her affair is doomed.

Her affair has a very small chance of making it. About 5% of affairs ever make it beyond 2 years. The very traits that make them possible, thoughtlessness and deceit, eventually make their way into the affair and it goes into a freefall.

What will cause the affair to go into a freefall is causing as much conflict as possible in it. Exposing the affair is ruinous because affairs thrive on secrecy and fantasy. When it is exposed, that all falls apart.

So, I would take a much more strategic approach if I were you and instead of going into full retreat, get out on the battle field and kill the affair. You have a much greater chance of winning this war than the OM if you will just fight smart using the best weapons. You have a distinct advantage over the OM if you will just use it.

I would execute a very thorough, wide spread, strategic exposure. Read the thread linked in my signature. It will give you both strategy and tactics.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MrWondering
I've called out an old poster here that***that went through this back in 2006-2007 (I don't think his is story on MB because his xw found his thread). He had some of the same issues you're having with exposure and your duties as a man.*****

He did a very complete exposure, however, he didn't confront the OM because of potential conflicts.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I just remembered that since he couldn't confront the OM directly, that he filed for divorce on grounds of adultery and had that RAT subpeonaed into court. They worked him over on the stand.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Welcome to MB, afaad

Originally Posted by loveherafaad
6) My plan B HAS to be my plan B because of my family not cooperating with a child exchange so she does not see me.

How is your family not cooperating?

When was Dday? How long has the A been going on? What are the ages of your children?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by MrWondering
I haven't read or seen enough of your story (from you) to know whether NOW is quite the time for a Plan B letter just yet. Plan B is more about saving YOU than saving the marriage and you may want to execute some Plan A stuff BEFORE you head in to Plan B. Maybe not....but it's worth a discussion. How long has it even been since D-day??? How are you holding up emotionally? If I told you Plan A was more likely to save your marriage than Plan B today...would you tell me you just can't stomach doing Plan A anymore, emotionally speaking???? Plan B involves and ultimatum and if you aren't prepared yourself to go completely dark...you'll fail at it and completely ruin Plan B. Ultimatums don't work unless you are prepared to walk the walk.

Ditto

I do like the Plan B letter though.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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LH was just over. Been reading through the responses together.

I explained that Plan B is complete darkness. He insists it isn't possible because of the kids, so in effect he is in Plan A.

Given that it is Plan A, then a letter to her isn't called for. I'm going to advise him (he just got called away on a job matter) that he not announce what he's doing (through the letter) but that he simply do it. In other words, show through actions versus words that he's a changed man.

He's been doing Plan A things. He got unfinished house projects completed, has had family time with her and the kids, was talkative and friendly.

Right now, however, he's transitioning to a place where he feels stronger and in more control. He wants to be James Bond cool and basically show the strength and spine of self respect he had been lacking up until now.

So his contact and communications with her is minimal.

I don't want him to waiver on the legal steps he must take. I think he'll be afraid to take the steps because what he's doing so far seems to be having an effect (in terms of her responses to him).

I think he needs to file regardless. Her reactions to him tell me that Plan B would be extremely effective but so would him standing up and fighting legally (not for a D, but for formal separation, CS, alimony, etc.)

Mr. W, can you file for a separation and not for a D?

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Hfld, let him know that Plan B is possible with kids and we can help him with that if he reaches that stage. However, his Plan a is going to be ineffective if he doesn't expose the affair. Exposure is his most powerful weapon and he can't afford to skip that step.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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There are different legal terms used in VA and MD similar to separation but they aren't called separation. Adultery is a fault that can be cited in both states. Depending on what is cited also affects the filing requirements.

How long has WW lived in MD? MD has a one yr residency requirement. BH will also have to consider that if he files in MD he will have to travel to MD to deal with their courts during the process and maybe even thereafter.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Exposure is done, Melody.

His family knows. Her family knows. Friends all know.

OMW won't take his calls.

The rumor, before all of this broke, was that she was seeing a couple who were swingers. So OMW may not care as she was involved.

We don't know how true that is, but we have good intel that this was the case and the response from exposure to OMW tells us that there may be a kernel of truth to it.

WW won't get pressure from her family. There's been a lot of D in her family and WW's mom (MIL) justifies the affair by saying that WW moved out.

On the one end she supports LH, on the other she is taking WW's side. In other words, she's an enabler and doesn't have the moral backbone to tell her DD that she has her head up her a$$.

BIL is supportive, but doesn't talk to WW.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I would suggest that you put off Plan B for a few more months if you want to save your marriage. You have a much better chance of saving your marriage if you execute Plan A for a while longer. You have a distinct advantage over the OM in that you a) have history with her, b) are the father of her children and c) her affair is doomed.

This bears repeating. Dr. Harley has noted that a WW will typically respond to being "chased" (Plan A) better than a quick and decisive Plan B, which they will note as a lack of care.

By all means, make the needed preparations for Plan B - for instance, securing an IM - until then, Plan A your butt off.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Thanks for all the help. She moved out and into an apartment 15 minutes away. I am NOT seeing anyone else (never cheated never will). I am in plan A. Will give her the above letter tonight (modified a little). I STOPPED calling her and texting her all the time. I don't call unless to say goodnight to my children. I don't text her unless child related. I don't know if she will come back but way to early to tell. I am at a "good" place. My version of D-Day is the day I feel the marriage is dead and I have nothing to loose and if she does not come back I will be fine. I still want her to come back (If she cuts ALL ties with him, apologizes and is honest with me and answers my questions).

When I say I popped smoke. It is my mental rehersal and focus: The helo dropped me off, I popped smoke, locked and loaded and moved out. She has the choice to follow my until I loose her in the dense jungle so she better hurry. The longer the affair goes on the faster I move and cover my tracks.

I will see how things go and update on the forum. Thanks for any advice.

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This is not Plan A. Plan B is ??? For whatever reason you don't want to answer basic questions. Whether you want to go Plan A, B, D or FU there are things to consider. Right now I have no idea what you are doing given the info provided.

Good luck I guess.



BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by loveherafaad
Thanks for all the help. She moved out and into an apartment 15 minutes away. I am NOT seeing anyone else (never cheated never will). I am in plan A. Will give her the above letter tonight (modified a little). I STOPPED calling her and texting her all the time. I don't call unless to say goodnight to my children. I don't text her unless child related. I don't know if she will come back but way to early to tell. I am at a "good" place. My version of D-Day is the day I feel the marriage is dead and I have nothing to loose and if she does not come back I will be fine. I still want her to come back (If she cuts ALL ties with him, apologizes and is honest with me and answers my questions).

You are making strategic mistakes that will not help your marriage. The things you are doing will make the situation worse. Do you want help saving your marriage?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by loveherafaad
Will give her the above letter tonight (modified a little). I STOPPED calling her and texting her all the time. I don't call unless to say goodnight to my children.

Your absence will only make her grow more detached from you and closer to the OM, which will make it much more likely that you end up divorced. You are essentially pushing her towards the OM. You have the competitive advantage here but are making it so that the OM has the advantage. You are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Will you accept that you have no experience and no expertise in saving marriages and allow us to help you? You are taking advice from the guy [yourself] who got his marriage in this sad place.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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What letter are you giving her? Plan B isn't warranted yet - and you've said you couldn't do one even if it was!

You're supposed to be Plan Aing and fighting for the marriage.

This involves carrot and stick. Give her carrots in the form of her needs and looking good,and stick involves exposure and standing up for yourself. The legal advice is a great way to run OM off.

You can't wing the plans or 'modify' them based o n your feelings/a waywards reactions/convenience/the weather

Those who have recovered their marriages or escaped false recoveries followed a narrow path. Its a recipe that must be followed exactly.

Its like trying to bake a cake without any flour and using salt because it looks like sugar.

You're making a mess. Stop, listen, follow the plans.

Your WW is fairly typical and you have a good shot if you can follow instructions.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Dude, please listen to the experts here. Satisfying your ego is not the best way to save the marriage you have for the sake of your children. Plan A is geared toward showing her the best you have to give/offer/be. Plan B is total blackout from contact/support. Doing one, or the other, is the MB program.

I'm not sure why you think what you are proposing stands much chance of recovering your union. Those of US who strike out blindly without MB support waste time and opportunity.

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Sorry to see you have a need to be here lh, but be thankful you are and welcome.

You are so close to busting this up IMO, but the missing element is confronting the OM face to face. I truly do understand your trepidations about this with your profession and all, but as someone alluded to previously, it shouldn't preclude you from exercising your rights as a man and a husband. I understand where you are coming from, but frankly, it's nothing but an excuse for not doing everything you need to do to bust this sorry [censored] and do what is right by your wife and your marriage. YOUR marriage. You are doing yourself a serious disservice to not only yourself, but more importantly, to the one you say you love. Your job is to protect her, and right now she needs protection more than ever before. That's your job. You assumed it when you said, "I do". You are failing miserably in this regard.

If you're so hung up on the confrontation with this POS then why not go to your commander (or whatever he's called, forgive my ignorance on this) and explain the situation. Find out straight from the horse's mouth what you can and cannot do. It may seem embarrassing to consider, but why should it be? Think about it; what have YOU done wrong?

Don't make the mistake of assuming you have no options here when you haven't even taken the time to explore what options you just may have.


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


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Hey all, I've got my pulse on the situation firsthand. He's not going into Plan B. He knows he's in Plan A. What's changed is that he is no longer the doormat.

She's seeing him stand up for himself, set boundaries, and is reducing the types of things that were turnoffs for her (such as the crying).

He didn't say he was going dark. He told her he won't address anything unless it regards the kids.

He has done good Plan A things. He's reading SA, has cleaned up his place, himself, and is focusing on his kids.

She's been thrown off by the sudden spine. She's been fishing for contact with him that falls outside of the kids.

I told him the objective here is to appear respectable, be cool, no longer whine and cry around her, and focus his efforts on his kids.

He can't confront the OM face to face. Tomorrow he seeks legal papers for separation. He's made it clear to her that he's happy to discuss ways to repair the marriage. Confronting OM face to face puts him and his career in danger. It is far to easy to *****and report him for threatening someone, even if he isn't.

LH, don't get defensive on the board. Absorb what is being said. I share some of the opinions of those here.

You're drawing boundaries, showing backbone, and are no longer reacting but acting.

My question to the board members is this:

Should he permit her to enter the marital home "for family time" if she seeks that out? What if she wants to hang out with him and the kids?

This is the part I'm a little torn on. Part of me says that if she seeks time in the marital home to do so and make the LB deposits. But at the same time, doing this has simply continued to let her cake eat and straddle the fence.

This is the strongest I've seen him in months. He has a plan, has grown a backbone, and is drawing boundaries so he's no longer a doormat.

He and I are in agreement that he's in Plan A since Plan B hasn't been setup properly yet. Some logistical matters with the kids need to happen first in terms of setting things up with his parents. I'm working with him on that one.

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If he's in Plan A then he should be spending time with her making deposits, correct?

Yes time with the kids.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
Hey all, I've got my pulse on the situation firsthand. He's not going into Plan B. He knows he's in Plan A. What's changed is that he is no longer the doormat.

This is the part I'm a little torn on. Part of me says that if she seeks time in the marital home to do so and make the LB deposits. But at the same time, doing this has simply continued to let her cake eat and straddle the fence.

He is not in Plan A at all. He is making serious strategic mistakes and doesn't know what is doing. By being distant, he is giving the OM an ADVANTAGE over him. And by neglecting to expose the affair, he is all but handing his family to the OM on silver platter.

He needs to be in Plan A, where he should be competing for his wife. But he is not doing that. Rather, he is standing back and making the OM look good in comparison.

We can't help this guy if he won't listen, hlf.

Here is what he needs to be doing if he is serious about saving his marriage:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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