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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads


Exposure is done. It has created a huge problem for WW and hasa alienated her. Lets move on with the advice and focus on Plan A.



No, I will not move on from this point. You can't help someone if they have not employed the greatest weapon against an affair. Until that is done completely and thoroughly there is no hope here. And this may be a hopeless situation anyway. But his best chance comes from exposure.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Melody,

What part of exposure is done and everybody knows is unclear? Hes exposed it. She is alienated and alone because all their mutual friends abandoned her. Her family knows. His family knows. Exposure is done. OMW knows and doesnt care.

Short of taking out ads, I dont know what youre expecting.

And Plan B isnt possible because hes been unwilling to setup the logistics for it. I told him Plan B is full on no contact in any way and that means not even seeing her or letting her see him. So unless hes willing to do it right, then Plan A is the only option.

I know what exposure is supposed to do. Its done here. Its working as it is supposed to since nobody that matters is supporting her affair and her family is divided on how much to support her despite her idiotic decisions.

Im here on the ground seeing things as they unfold. LH has embraced MB. Hes on board with doing Plan A and eventually Plan B. Hes torn on whether or not to file for protection. I think he should and if she protests he can always say, What did you expect me to do? I have to protect myself and the kids from your affair.

Hes trying to be the lighthouse and she appears receptive to at least looking at the lighthouse. Shes receptive when hes not weepy and whiny.

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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
Melody,

What part of exposure is done and everybody knows is unclear? Hes exposed it. She is alienated and alone because all their mutual friends abandoned her. Her family knows. His family knows. Exposure is done. OMW knows and doesnt care.


The OM's family does not know and I am doubtful that he has personally exposed to her family. Her family knows WHAT? Do they know only the spin she told them?

How in the world can you consider the affair exposed if the OM's family has not been informed? crazy

Quote:
Short of taking out ads, I dont know what youre expecting.


A proper exposure.

Quote:
And Plan B isnt possible because hes been unwilling to setup the logistics for it. I told him Plan B is full on no contact in any way and that means not even seeing her or letting her see him. So unless hes willing to do it right, then Plan A is the only option.


First off, Plan B is very possible. And secondly, Plan B is inappropriate.

In order for him to have a chance, he needs to stay in Plan A.

If you don't want us to help this poster, just say so and we won't help him anymore. But I am certainly not going to sweep the most powerful weapon against an affair under the rug with "they already know."

Trying to help someone who hasn't exposed is like being asked to push a car up the hill with the parking brake on. We shouldn't help him do that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote:
Trying to help someone who hasn't exposed is like being asked to push a car up the hill with the parking brake on. We shouldn't help him do that.


Well said.

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Another way to expose "sideways", is to tell a few key people EVERYTHING and then say:

"This is not any sort of secret. Feel free to tell anyone you meet about this adulterous affair. Tell anyone they can call me to verify the truth of what you've said."


Like spreading seeds in the wind.

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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
And Plan B isnt possible because hes been unwilling to setup the logistics for it.


LH, why is this? What state are your parents in? They provide daycare for the children fulltime?

Unless I missed your answer...your parent won't help you with Plan B type pickups?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Update: I have read and appreciate all the advice from everyone. I am going blindly no more. I am in Plan A with the carrot stick and trying to make deposits in the LB to push the OM away.
I have tried everything to expose the affair and crush it but his wife and her family does not care or want to help (was not surprised). My mom is my only ally in
my family and does not understand why I want her back but accepts my wish.

This morning our son called her to see how her day was going (2 minute converstion). He handed the phone to me after (Deep breath, James Bond, LB deposits). I asked her how she was doing and
she said work was ok. I asked no how are you doing. She said "I'm not out partying with friends" (our frinds abandoned her when they found out about the OM. So she only feels she has the OM as no family
is near and friends are gone). I said that I still want to make things work. The path is narrow and it is a hard road but it can be done and the friends that don't follow us were never our
friends (a week ago she would have yelled, said F your friends and hung up). Silence (she is usually quiet 90% of the time)
I told her I am still her for her and asked her what she wants in life. I told her that I want her in my life and can live without her but that would tear me apart
and I don't want to be without her (STILL being James Bond the whole time). I told her we can make this work and it will take time. We need to focus on us first. She was quiet and had to go and hung up. She did not
take the return call to tell her something about our daughter.

I sent her the followng text: "I won't talk to you about this for a while. You know my position. You have alot on your mind. Please don't lose us if that is whatyou truly desire. Talk to me when you're
ready. I'm here for you. Please think about things. See who I have become and how strongly I feel for you. Talk to me when you're ready. Tell me what you want, alone time, family time, us time. I am here for you always.

No reply. Offered for her to go to the park with us tomm. She is picking up our daughter tonight. Deep breath no more texting. Listeing to her and giving her space and time to think.

Any thoughts????

I truly do appreciate the help and now that I have a computer and internet i can read and post here more often.

Reply to read post: In my line of work people complain alot and somethings (stalking, harassment when to OMW does not care can cost me my career). OM is from England originally. Not much on the internet although a friend is working the FB angle in the next week (he is tech savy). I will stay in Plan A. I may see more tonight when she picks our daughter up. I will be James Bond, not a weepy doormat. She is very hard to read even after 16 years BUT she is such a social butterfly the loss of long time good friends and me is tearing her apart I'm sure. ALL advice is appreciated. I feel like I'm walking on burning glass with bare feet around her. Thanks again

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Originally Posted By: loveherafaad
Reply to read post: In my line of work people complain alot and somethings (stalking, harassment when to OMW does not care can cost me my career). OM is from England originally. Not much on the internet although a friend is working the FB angle in the next week (he is tech savy). I will stay in Plan A.


I would find a way to reach the OMs family and expose to them all. Are you saying you have personally spoken to his wife and she does not care about the affair?

Exposing to the OM's family can be a powerful exposure because it will ruin your wife's future with that family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Also, WHAT has her family been told about the affair? By WHOM? And have they applied any pressure on her? Will her father or brothers confront the OM on your behalf?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I spoke directly with WS brother and mother and they are 1) aware 2) not willing to help even though they do not agree with her decision.

I spoke with OMW she does not care. My instructions were to not contact again. They either have an open marriage or both are fine with their own separation/divorce.

My parents are 1 mile from me and 15 min from WS apartment. Child care is free but my dads health is poor (poorer with this while mess) and he is very angry and disappointed with her. My only allies in my family are my 15 yo nephew and my mother. I have to constantly explain to my mother that I am using the help from the forum and understanding more about our situation every day. I liten to her but am always in James Bond mode. I want the marraige to work but am prepared in case it does not.My conversation and texts to her this morning went well I think (Thanks to all for the advice).

The only way I feel that this OM can be out of the situation (I'm sure he is still in to some degree but I won't ask bc James woudn't wink is for 1) her to boot him out 2) Me to put deposits into her LB and to start to fulfill her 10 emotional needs THEN she won't care what is in his LB. Even after 16 years she is a difficult read made worse by this situation.

I have been able to talk a 6'03" 250lb gym rat into 2 sets of handcuffs bc that was the only way to cuff him but also had to fight 5'09" 175. I realize with that everyones situation is unique and what works for one may not work for another. If I could crush this affair and embarass him or whatever it took (legally) to end it I would. If I had the affair my parents would kill me. Her family loves me but does not care to get involved or fight on my behalf. OMW doesnt care at all!

I have the gift of gab and can read people well but am close to this. Before I was James Bond I made bad mistakes and was a blubbering doormat wrapped around her finger. NOW I am strong, confident and alot more in control. I am still learning and hope our marraige works and I still need and appreciate the forums help. I have not texted her or called anymore so I will wait until she picks our daughter up to see what how she acts.

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The guy is from England, so unless the FB angle reveals more, we're stuck in terms of exposing to them. He's a man in his 40's in an aparent open marriage. Exposing to his mom and dad, if they're still around, won't do anything. Exposure to their friends may work, unless their friends are a bunch of swingers as well.

I disagree that we need to find every person that the OM has ever had contact with and expose to them. We're dealing with people that swing, so what the hell do they care about others' opinions.

The people that matter have been exposed to. I'm nearly 100% confident that SH would be satisfied with the level of exposure given the facts at hand and the fact that OM's family lives in the UK and that he's in an open marriage, separated, or divorcing.

We deal with BS's who haven't done 50% of the exposure LH has done and we help them.

LH has exposed and is doing his best to find OM's info from FB. Short of searching British legal records, we're not going to dig up much more on his family or friends.

So we can get stuck on the fact that the OM's 3rd grade math teacher from England doesn't know or we can provide LH with useful advice he can work with.

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UPDATE:
She came to pick up our daughter. I was James Bond as much as it killed me. She stayed for a while hooking up wireless and ps3 wireless. We had some time in my room with the kids (1 coin in the LB at best). I did not ask her about anything related to our marriage. Since I earlier offered that "we could still make this work", "I am here for you" and "you talk to me when you're ready and lmk what you need, alone time, family time, us time". I will patiently wait and be James Bond when I see or talk to her. She moved one of her paintings out today (that hurt). I'm trying not to read into her actions to much bc what is the use of reading the "alien host". How long until I bring up something related to us and our marriage? Not until she starts bc I said I would wait for her to be ready to talk? 1-2 weeks and breach the subject?

Any advice is appreciated. Since I am on the forum alot more now I can read and ask for feedback. I'm trying to understand my challenge and the journey ahead. It is alot to try to focus on being "James Bond" in front of the WS whom I love so dearly and want to be with.

Should I eventually ask about the OM?

Should I apply for separation papers or would that push her further away and hurt my LB?

Thanks

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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
He's a man in his 40's in an aparent open marriage.


You don't really believe this do you? Has it been verified with OM wife?


ME: BW
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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
Exposure to their friends may work, unless their friends are a bunch of swingers as well.

I disagree that we need to find every person that the OM has ever had contact with and expose to them. We're dealing with people that swing, so what the hell do they care about others' opinions.

The people that matter have been exposed to. I'm nearly 100% confident that SH would be satisfied with the level of exposure given the facts at hand and the fact that OM's family lives in the UK and that he's in an open marriage, separated, or divorcing.

We deal with BS's who haven't done 50% of the exposure LH has done and we help them.


I don't. If people won't expose, on all sides, what's the point?

I can't understand why you're trying to predict which expousre targets will be effective and which won't. That's impossible to predict.

The wives from our couple friends, whom I was counting on, turned away from me. His mother, whom he worshiped before going alien, backed me to the hilt - but he didn't give a hoot about her.

It was the support of his wayward dad that got to him. He's always hated his father and I am sure he when he started becoming wayward too he decided he didn't want his father to see he had become like him. After exposure, when his father started making excuses for him I saw the alien face twist and my real husband was grief stricken inside.

Even the OMW, whom you are so sure won't care - how do you know what's happening behind closed doors. Even if nothing he now knows she knows. That's something in itself.

The real point of exposure is not so much to get express disapproval, it is more to turn the light on in the crack house.

They aren't snorting their drug in secret any more. People know. People are watching. That's less exciting and more embarassing. Even if the audience contains people as degenerate as themselves - the shame still penetrates.

Its less about other peoples disgust and activating their own inner sense of disgust by seeing themselves as others must see them.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: loveherafaad
I'm trying not to read into her actions to much bc what is the use of reading the "alien host".


Exactly.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: loveherafaad


Should I apply for separation papers or would that push her further away and hurt my LB?

Thanks


No the legal papers are a great idea. If she complains, I would look mildly surprised and remind her that she knows how much you love her and that you have no desire to separate unless you have to.

I would then just add 'unfortunately your affair makes it necessary. When your affair goes away, so do the papers, sweetie' kiss on the head, walk away. If she then yells or rants ask her if she wants vegetable juice or tell her an interesting fact about polar bears or something.

The alien is watching all the time for poor reactions, loss of control, weakness etc.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
The guy is from England, so unless the FB angle reveals more, we're stuck in terms of exposing to them. He's a man in his 40's in an aparent open marriage. Exposing to his mom and dad, if they're still around, won't do anything. Exposure to their friends may work, unless their friends are a bunch of swingers as well.

I disagree that we need to find every person that the OM has ever had contact with and expose to them. We're dealing with people that swing, so what the hell do they care about others' opinions.

The people that matter have been exposed to. I'm nearly 100% confident that SH would be satisfied with the level of exposure given the facts at hand and the fact that OM's family lives in the UK and that he's in an open marriage, separated, or divorcing.

We deal with BS's who haven't done 50% of the exposure LH has done and we help them.

LH has exposed and is doing his best to find OM's info from FB. Short of searching British legal records, we're not going to dig up much more on his family or friends.

So we can get stuck on the fact that the OM's 3rd grade math teacher from England doesn't know or we can provide LH with useful advice he can work with.


Unfortunately you are giving this guy bad advice that is likely going to doom his marriage. A meaningful, comprehensive exposure could possibly make the difference between success and failure and here you are discouraging him? Whoever in the world would you do that to a friend?

Loveheraaf, just so you know, Dr Harley advocates exposing an affair wide and far. ESPECIALLY to the family of the OP. the Harley's most certainly would not advocate a trickle exposure. You never know if exposing to his family could kill the affair.

And have you personally spoken to the OMs wife?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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OMW was exposed to and didn't care.

The OM parents are in England. The intel on the swinger part is pretty solid.

We're working on finding more about OM. It is a challenge and it isn't like we're sitting idle on it.

But seriously, what do people expect when AP is from another country? I recognize the value of exposure, but the purpose of exposure isn't to announce the affair to the universe but to inform those that can pressure the affair.

I can assure you that the alienation of their mutual friends is having a huge impact along with the alienation from LH's family. LH's wife is shocked that his parents are suddenly aloof and don't want to talk to her.

WW's family is enabling since that's all they've ever done in their past when divorce comes into the picture.

OMW got the message via email, text, and phone. She told LH to not contact her anymore.

So it isn't that I don't believe that there isn't value in exposing to OM's family, but finding that info is a challenge given his background and blocked FB page and the fact that they all live outside the country.

So we're working with the intel we have and the exposure targets we have. In the meantime, LH needs to Plan A and needs advice on that front.

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Use exposure and cast as big a net as you can. You don't know where the support will come from and who will best put pressure on your WW.

Have you spoken to a lawyer about your legal rights? I don't know what it is like in your area, but here, if your parents were watching the children on WW's time, it would actually count towards YOUR time and affect your CS. Look into it.

Have you read all that you can on PA? A part of Plan A is to get prepared for PB, but that is going to be a while for you yet.

Get cracking on finding OM's family. Get cracking on doing a complete exposure. You don't want to have any second guessing in the months to come. Do everything fully.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
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PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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"But seriously, what do people expect when AP is from another country? I recognize the value of exposure, but the purpose of exposure isn't to announce the affair to the universe but to inform those that can pressure the affair. "

The purpose of exposure is to kill the affair by exposing it to key people in the lives of the afairees. I don't believe you do understand the value or you wouldn't be here discouraging this guy from exposing, which is not in his best interest. I am really amazed that you don't seem to understand the value and purpose of exposure. You are hurting your friend by minimizing it.

And what do people expect when exposure targets are in another country? Ae you kidding me? They have phones in foreign countries, for Gods sake. They have mail and email. What do you think BSs do when an exposure target is another country? We are not talking about MARS, after all.

Why not step aside and allow some more experienced folks to help this man? You have become an obstacle to his success, I am sad to say.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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