Then you are not serious about recovery.

When I told Markos to leave, he left. HE'S now back home and we're recovering BECAUSE he respected me enough to leave.

You have no respect for her.


The bad OUTWEIGHS the good. You are not serious.

Back to the hyperbole.
In all my years on MB, I have never called any other poster a "whore". It's not my style.


That's right. You have been her "husband" in name only. You will know when I see reason to call you her husband.

I was just thinking about when my W was in her A (Unbeknownst to me) and she was saying that the children were her top priority in life.

All the while, she was running around like an alley cat in heat, proposing to replace her children�s father, destroying everyone's life, being the worst possible role model our chidren could possibly have while justifying 'kids are resilient, they will be fine'.

If this is placing children as a top priority, I would hate to see the definition of neglect.

Thank GOD she finally woke up and sees how unbelievably distorted this rational was.

In terms of the Love Bank, what you did was a big withdrawal. You see, you are offering unsolicited advice to her on how to be a better wife. Disrespectful on your part. She's not open to such input right now.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5067b_qa.html


Focusing on her disrespectful judgments right now is like arguing about what color to paint the kitchen while the house is burning.


You do not realize it, but this is an attempt on your part to control her feelings.

Most men on this site at one point or another attempt to manipulate their wife's feelings.

Do not sing your own praises. Just keep working on doing better until she is singing them.


You threatening to leave is an attempt to manipulate and punish her.

Next time she's angry or disrespectful, just SHUT UP. Recognize that when she is angry or disrespectful toward you, you are at high risk for an angry outburst. Go to "high alert," by which I mean SHUT UP.


This is like taking an clean expensive white dress shirt, dipping it in used motor oil to make a big dirty drippy mess in the middle of the front, wearing that shirt, and saying "Look at everything! Not just the oil, but the good clean white part!"

I know the truth because I've been there, rightthing. And the truth is that your actions ruin whatever good there was. You can accept that reality and realize that you have to stop being an abuser completely, or you can debate her feelings and put forth the logical argument that your good plus your bad should add up to something positive.

Accept the Love Bank (her feelings). Love bank deposits plus love busters equals a negative balance. Over time her love bank will only become MORE sensitive to your abuse, not less.

Thanks, pepperband and Markos.
Duly noted and considered. I'm acting upon these comments.

You so clearly are not ready. You are making things worse and busting your wife's love bank down to nil. I would offer to leave so that you can work on yourself away from where you will be doing more harm than good

And I mean OFFER to leave, promising you will be with accountable people she trusts if necessary. Not threaten to leave. AI is the boss and what she says goes.

AI is not capable of true AOs right now. She has simply taken on more than anyone can bear and it has to come out somehow. One of th reasons we tell BSs not to overdo endurance is to avoid AOs.

So she told you to leave or she didn't tell you to leave? Your story doesn't match up and you're changing it.

All this talk about wanting the best for your kids is bull$%it. The only person you're fooling is yourself-fyi.

If you were really serious, you'd sign over complete custody of your kids to your wife in that seperation agreement. Then if what you say about your kids being most important is true, you'd work extra hard to make sure you behave, because God knows you don't act as if your wife is important at all.

Oh.... and you're little "I hear you" comment to me about your phone? Clearly, you didn't, or you. Would already be posting how much you sold it for on ebay.

indiegirl: I'll just that immediately. The only issue is that I actually DON'T have anyone who might hold me accountable and thy AI might trust. Do you have a suggestion?

DoroM: I heard you. I'm also not accountable to you. Thanks for the comment, though.

Indiegirl: I've laid this offer out to AI. I have expressly OFFERED to leave if she feels I am causing her great pain. I've old her that I would like to stay and work on this, but will leave if she wants me to, with the intention of working on myself and making myself a person who deserves to be with her and keep her safe.

I've also asked that, due to our severe financial straits, if she would like me to leave, that I leave with the MB and other books we've purchased, so that I may use them to their fullest capacity. I've also promised to have them returned to her when I've finished reading them.

I know that was a selfish demand or request, but I really don't have the cash to afford second copies, or I would have bought two copy of each for us from the beginning.

TRT, we actually "know" you more than your BW, and even YOU know yourself. Remember, we have seen MANY like you come through here. MANY MANY MANY. Sadly, not a lot of them actually get it, and turn around, but we are hoping that outcome for you. But Hope isn't a plan, so we are helping you get there.

Go to the library and get a copy of the books, and then you won't need to spend any money, it's free. And if your library doesn't have a copy, go to the desk and ask them to inter-library loan you one. It takes a few days, but then you can use them for 4 weeks.

Now, when you were arguing with AI, and you threatened to leave, what was your motivation? Were you trying to manipulate her into behaving in a different manner? Were you trying to harm her? THink about it.

Call the MB radio show. They give away free books to the callers who get on.

Ditto.

(DUDE, FREE COUNSELING....)

Scotland: My intention was to make it clear to AI that I wouldn't stand for her abuse, and in doing so, perpetrated abuse upon her and compounded that with the threat of leaving the marriage/house.

It was wrong. I have acknowledged that and OFFERED to leave at her request.

I will go to the library today and inquire about your suggestion. Thank you.

pepperband and Markos: I live in Canada. They do not ship outside the US, as Joyce has said on numerous occasions on the MB Radio show. I will take Scotland's advice until I can afford my own copies. Thank you.

His Needs, Her Needs and The One are the only two books available through our library system.

I will have to get my own copies somehow.

Thanks for the advice though, Scotland.

Seriously? TRT, so far you are not assimilating the advice found here. You may very well be reading, I'll grant you that, but you must actually APPLY the concepts you've read.

What do you expect from AI? She has learned that your entire marriage - seven years worth - is a big fat LIE. It would take superhuman effort for her to refrain from AOs and DJs at this point. Her entire foundation, her worldview, has been rocked to the core. You packing your bags and telling her to "stop or else" was blatant manipulation on your part. She is lashing out at you in her hurt, her pain, and you are not keeping a rein on your emotions, your anger.

I said the other day that you must do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes, if you truly want your M to recover. If AI wants you to leave, then go - without theatrics, without threats. If she pushes your buttons, then simply tell her that you regret the pain you have caused her and that you will do whatever it takes to show extraordinary care for her, that you love her, and you want to become the husband that she deserves. If you cannot control your anger, then you need to gently remove yourself from the situation and take a time-out.

YOU CONTROL YOUR ACTIONS AND YOUR REACTIONS.

Manipulation. Attempt to punish.

Bless her, she does not know WHAT she wants at this juncture. It took my BH, broken, over TWO YEARS to decide what he wanted - divorce. And I wanted to rant and rail against that too...I wanted him to decide on *my* time schedule what he wanted to do with our marriage. Pretty damn presumptive of me after what I put him through!


This just rubs me the wrong way. Something about the way you say that. My God, man, you should be on your knees begging her to allow you the chance to prove yourself to her, not hurling back insult for insult. Do you even understand what some of us former waywards would do for the chance to make things right? Speaking for myself, I would move heaven and earth for broken if he would let me, but he has withdrawn to the extent that intimate need-meeting is utterly impossible.

But maybe one day I will be able to look into the mirror and not see myself as a home-wrecking wh*re. Maybe I will finally let it sink in what others here and IRL have told me, that I've done everything I could do. Maybe I will be able to look into my daughters' eyes and reach acceptance with the fact that I tore their family apart.

Do you want to be able to do that? Do you want to be a MB success story or are you too overly concerned with your false "image," either your own inflated self-image as a "good" husband and a "concerned" father, or the image that you are trying to portray to us "internetty" people?


You can fix this. With MB theory, yes, but the important bit is the PRACTICE of that theory. The application of concepts. Thus far things are falling short.

Nope, you are not responsible for her actions. Poor AI is barely even responsible for her actions right now. She is still in shock. Do you know what PTSD is? Many victims of infidelity and abuse are PTSD sufferers.

You are responsible for your actions. And you are NOT doing this without complaint or regard for yourself, so don't bother trying to convince us otherwise.

And for God's sake, don't try and make us believe what a concerned/involved father you are. You aren't. With seven years of adultery, you obviously have never been concerned for your children's welfare. I was not concerned with my children while I was an adulteress. I was only concerned with my own selfish needs. An adulterer - an unreformed, unrepentant adulterer - is a LOUSY parent. Prove your worth as a father first by demonstrating extraordinary care towards their mother.

TRT,

Your wife needs time away from you right now, she's making herself ill, can you do that, voluntarily, for her?

100% agree. This is a very abusive situation, first the utter devastation to AI caused by a marriage wrought with deception and infidelities, and now on top of that continued abuse when AI is going through the worst trauma she has likely ever experienced. Disgusting.

You treat this woman with less love, care and respect than I treat my dogs. Literally.

What the...

'My intention was to make it clear to AI that I wouldn't stand for her abuse...'

I have to keep rereading it to make sure you actually WROTE that. It is the most ridiculous and self centered thing you have ever written, and that bar was set very very high.

Did you check about the inter-library loans? They get books from ALL OVER Ontario. Ask me how I know? NONE of DrH's books are available at my library, but they got me one from St Thomas. I do this ALL OF THE TIME. You won't find it on your catalogue through your library. You would use borrower services. That was why I suggested that you go to the desk of the library. I know how to do it online, but every library system may not be the same.

Stop fooling yourself. The reason that you told AI that you were going to leave was because you got angry and you wanted to manipulate her into stopping her behaviour so you could be in control again.

See, you think that you are self aware, but I am here to tell you that you most definitely are NOT. You are an absolutely fogged out wayward. You're not the worst case I have seen(but I've only been here for 2.5 years), but you are definitely one of the most stubborn. That's not going to help.

Do you agree that what your instincts tell you has led you to a marriage that you have shoved down the toilet?

Also, I remember a few pages back, I told you that in 6-12 months, your BW would become very ANGRY, and you said that you would deal with it, and that you wouldn't go anywhere. Well, it seems that you were wrong, because if you think she was angry now, just wait. And if this is how you will react to it, you may as well leave.

You weren't serious about actually leaving your wife, were you? Do you understand how much pain that caused her? Do you understand how that is going to be repeated in her mind, again and again, removing LB$ from her LB, and causing it do go down rapidly. You have messed up HUGE, once again, and instead of acknowledging that, you are trying to make justifications for it. If your BW asks you to go, respect her enough to leave.

I don't think that that's what Dr. Harley would advise you at this point. Have a little bit of understanding of what she is going through, here.

Besides, you weren't just standing up to abuse. You were demanding admiration. You requested that she change her emphasis from your failings to your good points. When she didn't, you got emotional and abused her. That turns your request into a demand.