This is BRILLIANT. OK I won't do it, but it does put my ideas to shame.

I would never apologize to OW. They would have to throw me in jail for contempt.

To address whether these feelings are misplaced anger I have for my H. As I have told some well meaning friends who have suggested that what OW did was 'nothing personal' and she didn't owe me anything, so therefore I should not blame her, and that I should not take blame away from H to put on her feet. Both H and OW have their very own bucket of anger and blame. I am not stealing from one to give to another. H's bucket however also has a lot of love, hurt, and various other emotions that make it far more complex. OW's bucket is just filled with unfiltered anger and nothing more. So no I don't think my feelings for her are unexpressed feelings for him, he has his very own to deal with.

And he HAS dealt with them. He has definitely felt my wrath. We had well over a year from DDay until I started posting here, and that year was filled with wrath and that's how I wanted it. Yes I have to lay that aside if I want any hope at recovery, and frankly I really don't have a lot of anger left toward him except on a rare bad day due to his recovery work and just compensation. Just OW's.

What am I really worried about? Hrm. I guess I am worried that the kharma bus will NOT find its way to these women, and they will move on and live happy lives, completely unaffected by their choices. I would like to have a little justice in the world I guess.

Are you suggesting I am really worried about H cheating again or something like that? Well, I would be a fool to say that I do not consider that any option EVERY DAY. Of course he can. Of course any person can, no one can be trusted by Dr H's own words right. But I also don't feel I'm worried about that. I am a different woman than I was for a very long time, and there is a VERY clear path if that should happen. As I've said before, there ain't no FR's for this broad, his bags would be packed and locks changed so fast he would not know what hit him.

But I definitely don't feel any sense of safety or security in this relationship.

I think there are some OW who find a THRILL in being the OW, and would thrive off the continued contact and knowing that they are still affecting your life. If this were the case I would probably want to do the opposite.

In my case OW's both want to move on and keep this little tryst a secret, which makes me also want to do the opposite. I think it would rattle both their lives to have me make any contact.

In any case, enough venting about OW's for this week. Bad bad bad to focus on them instead of on our own recoveries!

Coop did you start your own thread yet? You should. I was a voyeur for a long time before I started my own. Even after months of reading and having a fairly good understanding of Dr H's principles, I still had a lot of foggy ideas about how they applied to my own sitch that had to be challenged by the vets.

Bad couple of days. Old behaviors rearing their ugly head. H has been DJing and doesn't even think it is DJing, I in turn have gotten resentful and the 'screw you' attitude I am prone to now. Both detached. No SF. I know I just had to bring that into the equation.

We were supposed to go out of town again tonight and have changed it to tomorrow so we could spend some time together, do something fun, get some MB work in, etc. Hopefully that helps.

Ran 5 miles today, that made me feel good. Working out is like a drug for me, my very own AD during the bad days. I downloaded some new songs to my ipod so it inspired me to have a chance to listen to them.

I guess us girls in R need something like toenail paint to focus on too once in awhile.

When we went through a spurt of returning to old behaviors, I figured it was time we redid our questionnaires. #1: it helped to refocus on the program and #2: needs do change at times.

One of my biggest fears is falling back into old habits without realizing it, because we're complacent. It's good that you recognize that it's happening so you can ask for something more and better in your marriage.

I don't think you have to redo the whole program again, but going back over certain questionnaires helps re-evaluate where you are NOW.

But you're right: it doesn't hurt us to focus on some nice toenail colors or something every now and then too!

(Mine are a coral-red color at the moment, with a sparkly flower on the big toes.

Well we are on Assignment #3 so we aren't really going 'back' we actually just doing it for the first time. We are on the filling out EN questionnaires but we had already done that so are just going to review them to make sure they are still accurate.

I fear complacency too. I sadly almost expect us to fall back into old behaviors. I guess OLD H is what I knew for a very long time, its hard to believe that this will stay. So I am ultra sensitive to any old behaviors rearing their ugly head. And I respond in an 'ultra sensitive' way...

I have a french pedicure but instead of a flower I have a paw print. I have agreed to the girly pedicures but I draw a line at little flowers on the toe, paw print is MUCH more my style!

OHHHH...that's right: you guys haven't gone through everything yet. Just remember, new behaviors take PRACTICE and conscious effort: then they become standard behaviors.

Naturally, some things will "revert" and that's OK - as long as the things that revert fall under the MB principles. For awhile I was scared of anything that reverted. Then, I realized that some things we'd done previously were just fine! I just needed to match them up with the program to see if they fit or not.

I normally don't do flowers on the toes either, but I like this one! It's unique. It's hard to explain but it's more classy than girlie. BUT...a paw print would be awesome!!! I hadn't thought of that! I'm sure our German Shepherds would love that! LOL

We bought the program a LONG time ago and did a couple things randomly then put it in the basement so, just starting it over again.

It is VERY hard to change behaviors. So many habits to conquer all at once. I am struggling with the DS, I had a pretty decent handle on it and now my kids are home all day and they destroy as fast as I can clean. I really need to start working on changing THEIR habits if I want to make any headway over the summer.

i hear that. i have no problem accepting my own consequences!


oh no. i don't think that at all. the OW has just as much blame and anger. they knew what they were doing, and they knew it was wrong. they just don't care.


totally understandable. the world isn't fair, and oftentimes it seems that the bad guys never get their due. but you can recognise the fact that these particular people in question make very, very bad decisions. they will get bitten.


well, no. i hadn't even thought of that!


ahhh, here's the crux. and you realise that is because you guys aren't working the programme? get those things out of the basement and work 'em! when you two start working the steps, you WILL start to feel safe. you WILL start to feel secure. and you WILL start to feel love and loved in return. it's crucial, unwritten, it really is. as long as you are just hanging in there, nothing's going to change. you have to create the change, and you do that by following the programme.

ah, you didn't expose. no wonder you feel so vulnerable!


this needs to stop. as long as the two of you are playing silly buggers (she does this, so i do that; he does this, so i do this other thing), you're not going to heal and recover. and no sf is a terrible idea! your bonding time (sf) should not be a weapon in either's arsenal.

unwritten, you know i'm no vet. but it appears to me that, in a nutshell, you have so much resentment because you guys are not following a recovery plan. you are rather caught up in plan c, and that's no place to feel safe, secure, and loved up. is your H onboard with MB? is that a problem? {{{{unwritten}}}}

Have you seen this?
Instincts and Habits

This is also a good clip. Radio clip

My nails are red with silver glitter. Gonna switch to purple tonight

Letty,

You missed about 10 pages of my thread but I know I am a tad long winded lol.

I gave H the summer to prove to me he is interested in recovery. If there is work done, then I am excited about that. If not, then I'm outie. I am totally done with Plan C.

He did get the books up, dusted them off. We have been 'working the program.' He is doing exceptionally well at keeping us on track with regards to UA time, our MB home program, etc. And I have had a pretty darn good attitude about it too, most days.

But no, still don't feel safe and secure. Should I??? Good grief he cheated on me and lied to me for well over a decade, I wouldn't think a few months of good work would erase feelings of distrust and insecurity. I would think it will be a LONG time before I feel those things.

Oh, and as far as no SF. I am not in control of the SF around here. Or we would not get anything done in this house.

RQ hows that purple nail polish??? I was sitting at the lake enjoying a margarita this weekend thinking that my french pedi was BORING, so think I shall pick something fun next time. With a paw print.

IDK I feel kinda bad stealing the Plan Bers nail polish thing. Maybe we should go with hair color instead. I change that a lot too.

It will take up to two years to restore romantic love in the marriage, and it could be longer before you forgive.

If after two years your marriage isn't better than it ever was before, you are better off to divorce.

After NC and transparency are established, the next important EP is restoring romantic love to the marriage, which is a 2 party effort.

The key to restoring romantic love; UA time. What to do during UA time; spend it giving each other your undivided attention meeting the intimate emotional needs of recreational companionship, intimate conversation, affection, and sexual fulfillment.

When you begin doing this, and both of you are avoiding love busters... with time you will feel safe.

But.... you know all of this.

HHH I've missed you. Yes I know all that but I still like you to stop by every now and then.

It has been almost 2 yrs since DDay, but since there was a lot of Plan C and other silly stuff after that well, I imagine that 2 yr mark did not start until really quite recently. Already I can say our M is better than ever before, but, the bar was not set very high...

Just this morning on the treadmill I caught myself thinking about renewing our vows, what I would write, what I would say. Aghast, since I haven't let myself 'dream' like that for a long time.

NC and transparency have been established for a long time. We have been working on the UA time, short from all these silly family vacations we are having to endure... LB's we are pretty good on except for a few bad days here and there.

I guess we just need to keep it all up for some time before the safety and security come back.

Forgive my ignorance. What is plan C?

It was kind of you to give him a two year mulligan. I hope the gamble works out for you. Though, you know your own attitude toward your marriage has improved in the past few months. That, sister, is probably a larger portion of your marital improvements than you are giving it credit for.

Plan C is a term bandied about when the MB program isn't being followed all the way, basically, or to exact specifications. You know, like leaving an important ingredient out of a recipe. In MB terms there is Plan A, Plan B, and then the Plan of Recovery... or divorce (unofficially termed Plan D). Plan C is kinda doing your own mix of things. It is not recommended.

I haven't read all of your thread here, UW, so I'm not sure specifically where you were/are doing Plan C.... but I'm hoping you are on plan recovery now! Plan C just typically does not lead to real recovery.

Here's a thread about Plan C.
BSs...Plan C is not a Plan

Just this morning on the treadmill I caught myself thinking about renewing our vows, what I would write, what I would say. Aghast, since I haven't let myself 'dream' like that for a long time.

Well, without interfering with current concrete actions, why not?

If by "dreaming" you mean "anticipating the satisfactions that would accompany better days" - isn't that why we fight through the immediate pain?

You were sweating and exerting yourself on the treadmill to maintain (or restore) a preferred level of fitness for your future enjoyment. "Marital effort" should be permitted its own anticipation.