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#2644218 07/10/12 07:40 AM
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I joined MB 2+ years ago.
Since coming here, I have learned how to acknowledge red redflags when confronted with confusion about circumstances that do not add up. It has taken me this long to finally acknowledge to myself and to my H circumstances that date back to 1999!

At that time, I "knew" something was wrong... Just did not have the courage to trust that my intuition was spot on! I relied on H's "explanations" as to why I "shouldn't" think or feel the way I did! I have been gaslighted for so long, it has become a way of life for me!

All I have is "Circumstantial Evidence" in my belief / knowledge that my H was unfaithful to me... Circumstances that I saw, heard & experienced! Today, all these years later, the red redflags are so obvious that any person who has any brain waves would know that there was an EA and/or PA going on!!!!! I feel so stupid... I do not feel safe & protected in my marriage!

Thank goodness for Dr. Harley's books and articles... I have read all of them, even SAA! In reading Dr. Harley's books, I believe that in order for love to be restored in a marriage, that it takes two people to do the hard work!

I found the courage to confront my H yesterday. Where, in the past, I would back down / cower when he told me that I was flat out wrong ~ I stood my ground and told him that it "looks like a duck, walks like a duck & quacks like a duck"! Guess what?!? It IS a duck!!!!!

He continues to deny and deflect, knowing that there is no way in hell that I can "prove" my belief that he was unfaithful!!! All he has to do is simply continue denying the obvious...

Where does that leave me? I believe he is faithful "today"...
My struggle is knowing that he absolutely, positively will NOT tell me the truth about his relationship with his secretary in 1999! How can I trust him, knowing that if he will not reveal "truth" about that "friendship", the fact is that he may have had other "friendships" with other women as well?!?

My #1 EN is Honesty & Openness. Because of that, I am finally at the point where I am willing to separate myself from him for the rest of my life in order to free myself from his dishonesty!

I desire to have love in our marriage
Doesn't it take two of us, working together, to accomplish this?



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Why not ask him to take a poly?
Polygraph Testing


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Wise1 - please contact JustUss. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Why not ask him to take a poly?

Ditto.

Ask for a polygraph and mean it.

That's how I found out about things that happened decades ago that I otherwise never would have known about.

BV


Me - WW/BW - 49
Him - CGIR - WH/BH 49
Married 27 years, together 33 (HS sweethearts)
No kids
DDay #1 - 1989 EA co-worker
DDay #2 - 2004 internet porn
DDay #3 - July 2006 EA different co-worker
DDay #4 - Aug. 2006 EA with OW #2 was actually a PA
DDay #5 - Sept. 2010 False recovery - H dishonest about both affairs and porn usage
DDay# 6 - Sept. 26, 2010 - Full disclosure - 1989 EA was actually a PA and lasted one year. 2006 PA more extensive than originally thought. 1992 ONS with prostitute.
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Agree. I would be demanding a polygraph. Your husband's secrets are driving you crazy. Why not put an end to that?

Schedule a polygraph, hand him a list of questions before the test and give him an amnesty period to come clean. Then if he flunks the polygraph you will know without a doubt that he is not serious about being honest with you. I would not stay married to a man who played head games with me. He will drive you crazy!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Yes! ML, Thank You and BH & BV...
I have finally found my voice...
I will be back after work to ask questions about some of the specifics of a poly...
Blessings ~
And, Thank you again...

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Is there any husband, anywhere on this side of heaven, who wants their wife to give them an ultimatum?
My husband does NOT like me being in control of me because he thinks I am controlling him!
I am not in control of him ~ ~ ~ He Is!
I told him last night that I might reconsider allowing him to stay in this house, this marriage if/when "he" chooses to do whatever it takes to restore our marriage.
The "whatever it takes" means that he MUST seek wise counsel on this forum!
Until now, seeking counsel on this forum is the one thing he has adamantly refused to do...
Unless he comes to this forum and diligently seeks advice, he is GONE!
I have not broached the subject of a poly...Yet...
I have mentioned his taking a poly in the past and he did NOT like that idea... At All!
Once he chooses to come on board here, I feel very confident that some of you will tell him that he needs to take a poly in order for "him" to come clean with me...
That will be his (and my) "start"!
I have given him until Monday, 07/16/2012 to leave this house. If he wants to restore love in our marriage, there will be no other option than him coming to MB...
BTW ~ Shortly after D-Day in January 2010, he did start a thread where he posted one time...
That is when I found him using online porn!
YUP!!! When he received a reply from ML, he stopped!
I have given him this long to try his way...
His Way Does NOT Work!
That is why I gave him the ultimatum last night...
I am going to hold his feet to the fire until he proves to me that he really will do whatever it takes.
Thank you for your encouragement.

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So are you preparing for plan b?
How to Prepare for Plan B Properly


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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BrainHurts ~
Yes, I am in the process of preparing for Plan B.
H knows this based on our conversation last night.
I told him that I will only "reconsider" kicking his behind out on/before Monday, 07/16/2012 "IF" he comes to this forum!
Period!
He said he will come on board with the MB Forum to seek wise counsel.
And, Yes, ma'am!!!! I will be monitoring his thread... With much scrutiny...
He says that he wants to "do" whatever it takes to win me back, even if it means he must stretch out of his comfort zone...
He says he wants to do this because he loves me. He knows I will not change my mind about these conditions.
When I got home from work today, he asked me to come outside and talk about starting a "plan"... A MARRIAGE BUILDERS PLAN!!!!!
He asked me if I would read HNHN with him... He wants us to do the ENQ again... We did the Q over a year ago. He wants to see where we are today.
I feel confident that he finally knows I am saying what I mean and I am meaning what I say about this being his last chance to work "with" me in restoring love in our marriage!
FINALLY!!!!!
Because it has been so long since he registered with MB, (His one and only post dates back to 2010!) I am going to show him how to get to "start" here...
He is real confused about the acronyms and I can help him with that...
H is in dire need of wise counsel from Christian men on the forum who have "been there, done that"!!! Men who will not mince words when it comes to understanding the importance of being a man of integrity in God's eyes and his wife's eyes! I know there are many Christian men who, hopefully, will counsel him...
He also needs to hear from as many women here as possible. Women who will help him understand that there is nothing wrong with me!!!!!
Other than the fact that he has quite literally, ALMOST, driven me crazy!!! crazy
Sorry for this rambling post...
I am determined to be wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove during this process!!!!!
And, NO! I am NOT going to turn tail, quit, deny, rationalize, justify H's waywardness when it manifests itself! naughty






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Almost forgot ~ ~ ~
I KNOW that there is going to be much wise counsel that I need!
I KNOW that I need to come here to seek guidance...
Looking forward to being "corrected"?!?
NOT SO MUCH!!!!
However, I am willing to be willing to do whatever it takes for my marriage to be better than it has EVER been!!!!!
I'm ready to jump in with both feet...
Please remind me of this when it comes to: twoxfour

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Remember it's his actions you need to see. Your above post has a lot of "he said".

When is he supposed to post by?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Quote
Remember it's his actions you need to see. Your above post has a lot of "he said". When is he supposed to post by?


Today, Friday, 07/13/2012...
His birthday!
Yes ~ ~ ~ Actions MUST be demonstrated!
Words are meaningless unless they are backed up by his ACTIONS!
My hope is that he will do what he says he will do...
My hope is that he understands that his ACTIONS are imperative!
We will see...

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Is he going to take a poly?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Is he going to take a poly?
OHHHHHHHHHH! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
Taking a poly is a requirement. In order for him to prove to me that every word he has said to me about his fidelity in our marriage being 100% genuine, (Other than viewing porn) he will have to do this...

Once he starts his thread here, I KNOW the MB Vets will tell him he must take a poly!!!!!
When that happens, he will know that I am not being nit-picky or harsh when I remind him that I told him long ago that I wanted him to take one!!!
At that time, he thought I was being harsh and pushy... He thought I was crazy for even thinking that I should expect him to take one!!!
Well, guess what?!? I have 100% confidence that he is going to hear from others that his NOT taking a poly is NOT an option!
He is going to have to choose whether or not he is willing to do "whatever it takes" for him to work with me in restoring love in our marriage...
His choice!
"If" he chooses wisely, he will reap huge rewards...
"If" he chooses poorly, he will simply suffer consequences of his own making!
PERIOD ~ ~ ~ PARAGRAPH!!!!!!! grin

Last edited by Wise1; 07/13/12 06:58 AM.
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Here is the letter I wrote and read to H this morning:
Random Thoughts
Friday, July 13, 2012

Dear H,

On Wednesday, July 11, I told you that I would �reconsider� my decision where I stated, "I need for you to leave on or before Monday, July 16, 2012� I need at least one month without your being in my presence� I need this long in order to formulate my plan to protect myself� Without you� This is my way of �just getting over it."

My decision to reconsider that decision is based solely on your words when you said that you would do whatever it takes to work with me by joining the MB Forum and seeking wise counsel from the MB Vets on what we need to do.

The requirements for you to stay in our marriage are:
1) Author a thread on the MB Forum where you tell your story about why you are there. You must do this today, July 13, 2012.
2) Ask the MB Veterans for help on where we need to �Start�.
3) Read and post on the forum every day, even if you have not received replies to your posts.
4) When you receive advice from the MB Veterans, do exactly what they tell you to do! Especially when you do not agree with them or trust them!
5) Do all of the MB Questionnaires.
6) Read all of Dr. Harley�s books and articles with me.
7) Do not argue or debate the validity of my requests. If you disagree, state your disagreement rationally and respectfully. If I change my mind about anything that you disagree with me about, I will tell you. If I don�t, I will tell you. Your remaining in this marriage will be my decision.
8) Show me by your actions that you are willing to work the plan that the MB Veterans suggest 100%.
That�s the deal.
Let me know if you are willing to do what I require by noon today.
I will have my cell on. If I do not answer, leave me a voicemail.
If I do not hear from you, I will conclude that your answer is �No�.
If I receive a voicemail telling me that you are not willing to meet my requirements, you need to start packing your bags and decide where you are going.
If I receive a call telling me that you are willing to do what I require, you must have your MB thread started before I get home where I can read it.
My desire is that you will choose wisely so as to reap rewards in our marriage.
Love,
DW

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Wise, do you have the book, Lovebusters? I would start with that book if I were you. Read a chapter every night and do the lessons at the end of every chapter.

And I am confused about the polygraph issue? You say he has agreed to do whatever it takes to recover your marriage. Has he agreed to take the polygraph? Have you made the appointment?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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So the only requirement is that he post on Marriage Builders?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Wise, the requirement should be that he take a polygraph test and enter a program of recovery for your marriage. Posting on the forum will not save your marriage. We do not have any leverage to hold your husband accountable, but you do.

The polygraph test will help you uncover the truth but that does not go far enough. Your husband does not know how to make you happy and your marriage is in bad shape. You both need to use this program.

But I think the first step needs to be you hold him accountable by making the polygraph test a requirement. Make up a list of questions for him and give him a 2 day amnesty. Make the appointment for the polygraph and get that going.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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When I got home from work today, he asked me to come outside and talk about starting a "plan"... A MARRIAGE BUILDERS PLAN!!!!!
He asked me if I would read HNHN with him... He wants us to do the ENQ again... We did the Q over a year ago. He wants to see where we are today.
I feel confident that he finally knows I am saying what I mean and I am meaning what I say about this being his last chance to work "with" me in restoring love in our marriage!
FINALLY!!!!!

Dear Wise1:

My husband never resisted MB; he "bought into" the principles right away. He read the books, listened to the CDs, completed the questionnaires, counseled with Jennifer Chalmers, posted here....

He was great to me. Did anything I wanted him to do; often I didn't even have to ask. Had more than the recommended UA time. Lots of recreational companionship and domestic support. Never any unaccounted-for time, or money. SWORE that I knew the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Was very sorry that it didn't make sense, but "it was what it was" and he wasn't going to make things up just so things made sense.

Drove me CRAZY because what he told me DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. I went into IC for almost 2 years to work on "my issues." (See "gaslighting;" the accompanying illustration is my husband).

He was still lying.

He was great at it, as he had 30 years of practice and successful implementation. I struggled to believe him; Jennifer believed him.

Four years after we started MB, I caught him looking up the OW on Facebook and viewing porn.

I told him he would need to take a poly for me to stay married to him.

Now, check my signature and see what happened.

GET A POLYGRAPH NOW.

Especially if you're ready for Plan B.

BV (The "what not to do" example here at MB)

ETA: After I asked for a poly, my husband also revealed many other events, primarily from his childhood, that I have not posted here, as they were not relevant to infidelity. I had no idea, and have known him since he was 16. The sequence of events in my signature are just the "tip of the iceberg" in terms of openness and honesty.

Last edited by brokenvase; 07/13/12 09:15 AM. Reason: adding information

Me - WW/BW - 49
Him - CGIR - WH/BH 49
Married 27 years, together 33 (HS sweethearts)
No kids
DDay #1 - 1989 EA co-worker
DDay #2 - 2004 internet porn
DDay #3 - July 2006 EA different co-worker
DDay #4 - Aug. 2006 EA with OW #2 was actually a PA
DDay #5 - Sept. 2010 False recovery - H dishonest about both affairs and porn usage
DDay# 6 - Sept. 26, 2010 - Full disclosure - 1989 EA was actually a PA and lasted one year. 2006 PA more extensive than originally thought. 1992 ONS with prostitute.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Wise, do you have the book, Lovebusters? I would start with that book if I were you. Read a chapter every night and do the lessons at the end of every chapter.

And I am confused about the polygraph issue? You say he has agreed to do whatever it takes to recover your marriage. Has he agreed to take the polygraph? Have you made the appointment?
Yes. H and I are going to read HNHN, LB & SAA together.

I can cut to the chase by referring you to H's new thread... Yes, he did take the initiative today and do what I told him I wanted him to do...
Here is the link to his thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2645660#Post2645660

I have told him to answer ALL questions that are asked of him.

I understand what you are saying, ML...
Rather than waiting for H to be told that he needs to take the poly ~ I need to make an appointment and give him the list of questions I want answered...
I will do that!

I will gladly answer all of your questions regarding H's posts.


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