I joined MB 2+ years ago.
Since coming here, I have learned how to acknowledge red s when confronted with confusion about circumstances that do not add up. It has taken me this long to finally acknowledge to myself and to my H circumstances that date back to 1999!

At that time, I "knew" something was wrong... Just did not have the courage to trust that my intuition was spot on! I relied on H's "explanations" as to why I "shouldn't" think or feel the way I did! I have been gaslighted for so long, it has become a way of life for me!

All I have is "Circumstantial Evidence" in my belief / knowledge that my H was unfaithful to me... Circumstances that I saw, heard & experienced! Today, all these years later, the red s are so obvious that any person who has any brain waves would know that there was an EA and/or PA going on!!!!! I feel so stupid... I do not feel safe & protected in my marriage!

Thank goodness for Dr. Harley's books and articles... I have read all of them, even SAA! In reading Dr. Harley's books, I believe that in order for love to be restored in a marriage, that it takes two people to do the hard work!

I found the courage to confront my H yesterday. Where, in the past, I would back down / cower when he told me that I was flat out wrong ~ I stood my ground and told him that it "looks like a duck, walks like a duck & quacks like a duck"! Guess what?!? It IS a duck!!!!!

He continues to deny and deflect, knowing that there is no way in hell that I can "prove" my belief that he was unfaithful!!! All he has to do is simply continue denying the obvious...

Where does that leave me? I believe he is faithful "today"...
My struggle is knowing that he absolutely, positively will NOT tell me the truth about his relationship with his secretary in 1999! How can I trust him, knowing that if he will not reveal "truth" about that "friendship", the fact is that he may have had other "friendships" with other women as well?!?

My #1 EN is Honesty & Openness. Because of that, I am finally at the point where I am willing to separate myself from him for the rest of my life in order to free myself from his dishonesty!

I desire to have love in our marriage
Doesn't it take two of us, working together, to accomplish this?

Why not ask him to take a poly?
Polygraph Testing

Wise1 - please contact JustUss. Thanks.

Ditto.

Ask for a polygraph and mean it.

That's how I found out about things that happened decades ago that I otherwise never would have known about.

BV

Agree. I would be demanding a polygraph. Your husband's secrets are driving you crazy. Why not put an end to that?

Schedule a polygraph, hand him a list of questions before the test and give him an amnesty period to come clean. Then if he flunks the polygraph you will know without a doubt that he is not serious about being honest with you. I would not stay married to a man who played head games with me. He will drive you crazy!

Yes! ML, Thank You and BH & BV...
I have finally found my voice...
I will be back after work to ask questions about some of the specifics of a poly...
Blessings ~
And, Thank you again...

Is there any husband, anywhere on this side of heaven, who wants their wife to give them an ultimatum?
My husband does NOT like me being in control of me because he thinks I am controlling him!
I am not in control of him ~ ~ ~ He Is!
I told him last night that I might reconsider allowing him to stay in this house, this marriage if/when "he" chooses to do whatever it takes to restore our marriage.
The "whatever it takes" means that he MUST seek wise counsel on this forum!
Until now, seeking counsel on this forum is the one thing he has adamantly refused to do...
Unless he comes to this forum and diligently seeks advice, he is GONE!
I have not broached the subject of a poly...Yet...
I have mentioned his taking a poly in the past and he did NOT like that idea... At All!
Once he chooses to come on board here, I feel very confident that some of you will tell him that he needs to take a poly in order for "him" to come clean with me...
That will be his (and my) "start"!
I have given him until Monday, 07/16/2012 to leave this house. If he wants to restore love in our marriage, there will be no other option than him coming to MB...
BTW ~ Shortly after D-Day in January 2010, he did start a thread where he posted one time...
That is when I found him using online porn!
YUP!!! When he received a reply from ML, he stopped!
I have given him this long to try his way...
His Way Does NOT Work!
That is why I gave him the ultimatum last night...
I am going to hold his feet to the fire until he proves to me that he really will do whatever it takes.
Thank you for your encouragement.

So are you preparing for plan b?
How to Prepare for Plan B Properly

BrainHurts ~
Yes, I am in the process of preparing for Plan B.
H knows this based on our conversation last night.
I told him that I will only "reconsider" kicking his behind out on/before Monday, 07/16/2012 "IF" he comes to this forum!
Period!
He said he will come on board with the MB Forum to seek wise counsel.
And, Yes, ma'am!!!! I will be monitoring his thread... With much scrutiny...
He says that he wants to "do" whatever it takes to win me back, even if it means he must stretch out of his comfort zone...
He says he wants to do this because he loves me. He knows I will not change my mind about these conditions.
When I got home from work today, he asked me to come outside and talk about starting a "plan"... A MARRIAGE BUILDERS PLAN!!!!!
He asked me if I would read HNHN with him... He wants us to do the ENQ again... We did the Q over a year ago. He wants to see where we are today.
I feel confident that he finally knows I am saying what I mean and I am meaning what I say about this being his last chance to work "with" me in restoring love in our marriage!
FINALLY!!!!!
Because it has been so long since he registered with MB, (His one and only post dates back to 2010!) I am going to show him how to get to "start" here...
He is real confused about the acronyms and I can help him with that...
H is in dire need of wise counsel from Christian men on the forum who have "been there, done that"!!! Men who will not mince words when it comes to understanding the importance of being a man of integrity in God's eyes and his wife's eyes! I know there are many Christian men who, hopefully, will counsel him...
He also needs to hear from as many women here as possible. Women who will help him understand that there is nothing wrong with me!!!!!
Other than the fact that he has quite literally, ALMOST, driven me crazy!!!
Sorry for this rambling post...
I am determined to be wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove during this process!!!!!
And, NO! I am NOT going to turn tail, quit, deny, rationalize, justify H's waywardness when it manifests itself!

Almost forgot ~ ~ ~
I KNOW that there is going to be much wise counsel that I need!
I KNOW that I need to come here to seek guidance...
Looking forward to being "corrected"?!?
NOT SO MUCH!!!!
However, I am willing to be willing to do whatever it takes for my marriage to be better than it has EVER been!!!!!
I'm ready to jump in with both feet...
Please remind me of this when it comes to:

Remember it's his actions you need to see. Your above post has a lot of "he said".

When is he supposed to post by?

Today, Friday, 07/13/2012...
His birthday!
Yes ~ ~ ~ Actions MUST be demonstrated!
Words are meaningless unless they are backed up by his ACTIONS!
My hope is that he will do what he says he will do...
My hope is that he understands that his ACTIONS are imperative!
We will see...

Is he going to take a poly?

OHHHHHHHHHH! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
Taking a poly is a requirement. In order for him to prove to me that every word he has said to me about his fidelity in our marriage being 100% genuine, (Other than viewing porn) he will have to do this...

Once he starts his thread here, I KNOW the MB Vets will tell him he must take a poly!!!!!
When that happens, he will know that I am not being nit-picky or harsh when I remind him that I told him long ago that I wanted him to take one!!!
At that time, he thought I was being harsh and pushy... He thought I was crazy for even thinking that I should expect him to take one!!!
Well, guess what?!? I have 100% confidence that he is going to hear from others that his NOT taking a poly is NOT an option!
He is going to have to choose whether or not he is willing to do "whatever it takes" for him to work with me in restoring love in our marriage...
His choice!
"If" he chooses wisely, he will reap huge rewards...
"If" he chooses poorly, he will simply suffer consequences of his own making!
PERIOD ~ ~ ~ PARAGRAPH!!!!!!!

Here is the letter I wrote and read to H this morning:
Random Thoughts
Friday, July 13, 2012

Dear H,

On Wednesday, July 11, I told you that I would �reconsider� my decision where I stated, "I need for you to leave on or before Monday, July 16, 2012� I need at least one month without your being in my presence� I need this long in order to formulate my plan to protect myself� Without you� This is my way of �just getting over it."

My decision to reconsider that decision is based solely on your words when you said that you would do whatever it takes to work with me by joining the MB Forum and seeking wise counsel from the MB Vets on what we need to do.

The requirements for you to stay in our marriage are:
1) Author a thread on the MB Forum where you tell your story about why you are there. You must do this today, July 13, 2012.
2) Ask the MB Veterans for help on where we need to �Start�.
3) Read and post on the forum every day, even if you have not received replies to your posts.
4) When you receive advice from the MB Veterans, do exactly what they tell you to do! Especially when you do not agree with them or trust them!
5) Do all of the MB Questionnaires.
6) Read all of Dr. Harley�s books and articles with me.
7) Do not argue or debate the validity of my requests. If you disagree, state your disagreement rationally and respectfully. If I change my mind about anything that you disagree with me about, I will tell you. If I don�t, I will tell you. Your remaining in this marriage will be my decision.
8) Show me by your actions that you are willing to work the plan that the MB Veterans suggest 100%.
That�s the deal.
Let me know if you are willing to do what I require by noon today.
I will have my cell on. If I do not answer, leave me a voicemail.
If I do not hear from you, I will conclude that your answer is �No�.
If I receive a voicemail telling me that you are not willing to meet my requirements, you need to start packing your bags and decide where you are going.
If I receive a call telling me that you are willing to do what I require, you must have your MB thread started before I get home where I can read it.
My desire is that you will choose wisely so as to reap rewards in our marriage.
Love,
DW

Wise, do you have the book, Lovebusters? I would start with that book if I were you. Read a chapter every night and do the lessons at the end of every chapter.

And I am confused about the polygraph issue? You say he has agreed to do whatever it takes to recover your marriage. Has he agreed to take the polygraph? Have you made the appointment?

So the only requirement is that he post on Marriage Builders?

Wise, the requirement should be that he take a polygraph test and enter a program of recovery for your marriage. Posting on the forum will not save your marriage. We do not have any leverage to hold your husband accountable, but you do.

The polygraph test will help you uncover the truth but that does not go far enough. Your husband does not know how to make you happy and your marriage is in bad shape. You both need to use this program.

But I think the first step needs to be you hold him accountable by making the polygraph test a requirement. Make up a list of questions for him and give him a 2 day amnesty. Make the appointment for the polygraph and get that going.

When I got home from work today, he asked me to come outside and talk about starting a "plan"... A MARRIAGE BUILDERS PLAN!!!!!
He asked me if I would read HNHN with him... He wants us to do the ENQ again... We did the Q over a year ago. He wants to see where we are today.
I feel confident that he finally knows I am saying what I mean and I am meaning what I say about this being his last chance to work "with" me in restoring love in our marriage!
FINALLY!!!!!

Dear Wise1:

My husband never resisted MB; he "bought into" the principles right away. He read the books, listened to the CDs, completed the questionnaires, counseled with Jennifer Chalmers, posted here....

He was great to me. Did anything I wanted him to do; often I didn't even have to ask. Had more than the recommended UA time. Lots of recreational companionship and domestic support. Never any unaccounted-for time, or money. SWORE that I knew the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Was very sorry that it didn't make sense, but "it was what it was" and he wasn't going to make things up just so things made sense.

Drove me CRAZY because what he told me DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. I went into IC for almost 2 years to work on "my issues." (See "gaslighting;" the accompanying illustration is my husband).

He was still lying.

He was great at it, as he had 30 years of practice and successful implementation. I struggled to believe him; Jennifer believed him.

Four years after we started MB, I caught him looking up the OW on Facebook and viewing porn.

I told him he would need to take a poly for me to stay married to him.

Now, check my signature and see what happened.

GET A POLYGRAPH NOW.

Especially if you're ready for Plan B.

BV (The "what not to do" example here at MB)

ETA: After I asked for a poly, my husband also revealed many other events, primarily from his childhood, that I have not posted here, as they were not relevant to infidelity. I had no idea, and have known him since he was 16. The sequence of events in my signature are just the "tip of the iceberg" in terms of openness and honesty.

Yes. H and I are going to read HNHN, LB & SAA together.

I can cut to the chase by referring you to H's new thread... Yes, he did take the initiative today and do what I told him I wanted him to do...
Here is the link to his thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2645660#Post2645660

I have told him to answer ALL questions that are asked of him.

I understand what you are saying, ML...
Rather than waiting for H to be told that he needs to take the poly ~ I need to make an appointment and give him the list of questions I want answered...
I will do that!

I will gladly answer all of your questions regarding H's posts.

No. My requirement for him to stay in our house was that he seek wise counsel here on the MB Forum... Up until today, he has vehemently refused to do this.

Coming to the MB Forum is where he and I will "start" the process of restoring love in our marriage by seeking wise counsel from MB Vets.

NOT taking a poly is not an option for him... He must do it in order for him to stay in this house... And, I will be proactive in making sure it happens rather than wait for my MB Vets to tell him to do it!

Thank you!

The nearest poly examiner is a few miles away. (Apprx. 90 miles)
The "program of recovery" is Marriage Builders. Starting here on the Forum... Working our way "up" to the Harleys!
No, you do not have any leverage to hold H accountable, that is my job...
I hope that the wise counsel he receives here will encourage him to go the distance in our process...

Validating the truth about his past is paramount! If he has been telling me the truth, I need to know. If he has not, I need to know.

Yes, our marriage is in bad shape... VERY BAD SHAPE!

Being proactive is a MUST on my part! You are right!
I showed him a list of questions that I would like him to answer a few weeks ago... There are over 30 questions on that list!!!!! I would be happy to post my list for you to look at if you would like to see it...

Yes ma'am... I will get it going... Monday will be the soonest that I can actually call the poly examiner to find out the specifics of what I need to do...
Thank you...

Did you see this?

Your story is exactly what I am fearing my story will be... Of course, I hope and pray that H has been telling me the "truth"! If he has not, I will go the distance with him AS LONG AS HE IS WILLING TO DO HIS PART... I will NOT deny, rationalize, justify anything that is NOT truth in our marriage! Thank you so much for your words of wisdom... Your story is exactly what I need to hear!
I will do exactly what you and ML and BH tell me I need to do...

Lastly, I am going to tell my H to read your story... I will be interested in hearing his "perspective"...

God Bless ~

I need as much info regarding poly testing as I can get!
THANK YOU!!!!!

So your H said that your and his marriage is an affairage? Is this true?

You both were married and had affairs with each other? How did you two meet?

Yes, our marriage 37+ years ago is the result of an affair.
We met at work.
I was 23 & had been married for three years.
H was 31 & had been married for five years.

Has he had any affairs during your M?

I do not know.
He says he has not.
I have questions, based on hindsight.
Because of what I have learned since coming to this forum and reading HNHN, LB & SAA, I realize that H had many opportunities.
H and I have been separated for months at a time due to his jobs.
Until I found him using porn in January, 2010, I was confident that he would never do anything that would jeopardize our marriage.
That incident in 2010 is what led me to MB.
The more I read here and in Dr. Harley's books, the more I realized that our marriage was not what I thought it was.
After trusting Christ in 1979, I thought our marriage was safe based on our relationship with Him...
Since coming to this forum, I now realize that there are other Christian men/women who have fallen into sexual immorality...
No one is immune to seeking SF outside of marriage.
Even Christians...

Have you thought about calling the coaching center?

Yes.
H and I know that we must leave no stone unturned in seeking wise counsel from the Harleys.
We have read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts and many of his articles together.
We are in the process of rereading HNHN, LB & SAA together.
Using POJA, this is our "Start".
God Bless ~

H's poly is scheduled for Wednesday, 07/25/12 @ 6 PM...
I have given H the list of Q's that the Examiner will ask...
Thank you, BH, BV & ML...
Blessings ~

Out of curiosity, what are your questions?

My H has taken 2 polys. We had a really good poly tech that walked us thorugh the process and informed us of what/how to ask the qestions to get the best results.

On May 7, 2012, I started a list of questions that I wanted my H to answer.
They were "Yes" "No" questions.
On Monday, July 23, 2012, I gave my H the list of "31" questions.
I told him on Monday that he would be asked no more than "5" of the 31 questions.
I told him that no more than "5" questions (out of the 31)that he would be asked would be revealed just prior to the examination.
This morning, before I left for work, my H circled his "Yes" "No" answers to all 31 questions.
To be clear, I reiterated that he would be asked no more than "5" of the 31 questions at his examination.
When we got to the designated place for the examination, the PE asked me which "5" questions I would like to ask my H.
H gave his questionnaire with his "Yes" "No" answers to the polygrapher.
I told the PE I had only "One" question that I wanted him to ask my H... Which was:
#31) After answering all of the questions above, have you given a false answer to any of them?
"Yes" "No"
H had circled "No"...
H's answer did NOT show deception...
H and I are finally at "START"!

You have no idea how wonderful it is to know that my H and I are in POJA agreement in restoring love in our marriage!
Jesus is our Glue!
Blessings ~

You are very wise! great question, and congratulations on moving forward!

Thank You, Sweetheart...
Our "Start" has begun!
As an aside ~
Husband and I are convinced that our stumbling block has been the enemy's ability to cause doubt in our marriage...
Especially in me!
Because of our past, I have allowed the enemy to use me to cause my H and I to doubt that there was any way for us to become "one" in Him!
Yet, on Easter Sunday, 1979, Jesus came into our lives!
We have Jesus, and Dr. Harley's wonderful "tools", in restoring love in our marriage.
We are finally free, INDEED!, to use Jesus and Dr. Harley's tools in a way that will begin our "process"...
H and I have determined that we will espouse Dr. Harley's "tools" in helping others, especially in our church!
Where there is God's grace and compassion, using Dr. Harley's principles, there is hope!
Thank you so much for your encouragement!
Blessings ~

P.S.
Dear Lgtex1 ~
If we do not see you before ~ ~ ~
We will see you when we get to Heaven!!!!!
Blessings ~

Please be sure to let those you are helping know that you both destroyed your previous marriages to be together. I would be highly upset to seek marriage counceling in my church only to find out I am getting marriage advice from two people who are in an affairage. And this comes from a WW.

You still have a loooong way to go with recovery. Be careful with who you share you story with, not everyone is "safe".

The "affairage" will probably cause you problems as Ruby states. Being a BW, I can see credibility issues. Just being honest.

But, being truely repentant and doing a complete 180 with your lives says something. Have you done some research on true repentence? It's very eye-openeing.

You know what you have done in the past, and all the hurt people left in your dust, it's what you do from here on out.

It will be tricky, and I'm not here to judge.

On a positive note, one thing my FWH and I started with in our recovery was praying out-loud together. Stating our struggles and triumphs before God is a great way to stay connected, with each other and God.

Yes, Ruby ~
Your words of wisdom are valid!
H and I will give our testimonies...
Our marriage began in a corrupt, despicable manner.
If ever there are two people who have the ability to tell people what "NOT" to do ~ It is us!
Sharing with people the destructive behavior of affairs and how it impacts BS's, especially when the AP's marry, is what we hope God will use in people's lives...
Unfortunately, there are hurting couples in our church whose own marriages are the result of affairs!
What a dreadful shame that all of us did not know "then" what we know "now"!!!!!
In our church, there are also hurting couples whose lives are in the process of being destroyed by affairs! Yet, they are still together, wondering if it is even possible for them to restore love for each other and their marriage!
None of our church friends had heard of MB until H and I told them that Dr. Harley's principles and God are the ONLY way their marriage can survive...
Most importantly, God is the author of our message.
H and I know without a doubt that, because Dr. and Mrs. Harley are Christians, their ministry is a direct result of God's using them in ALL marriages!
Your wise words of wisdom are always welcome...
Blessings ~

Yes, Lgtex1 ~
Everything you have stated is valid!
H and I agree that there are "some" who will try to use our testimonies against us... And, we know who the author of that is!
Our only Source of hope and safety as we navigate this dangerous situation is God Almighty!
Our hope is in Him... ONLY HIM... He alone is our Protector!
Yes, we understand true repentence...
It is the process of doing a 180-degree "turn" in order to run back into God's arms of love, grace, mercy, compassion and acceptance...
Have you read the story of the Prodigal Son?
That is us!
Tricky? With God as our Provider?
God's Truth has a way of leveling the playing field...
Our eyes must be firmly trained on Him... ONLY HIM...
And, yes, H and I have rejoined our commitment to pray together aloud while holding hands.
It has been such a long time since we have done this...
We are joining together in a way that we know will honor God and bless our marriage!
Thank you for your encouragement!
Blessings ~

I might be asking this too early (haven't read the rest of your thread), but what were the results of the polygraph?

Oh, dear. I wasn't aware that this was an affairage. What were the results of the poly?

Bliss, He passed the test.

You will have ups and downs in the next few years. When I have a "down" day it helps me to look back at how far we have come and the progress we have made. Our marriage pre A gives me the "willies" just thinking about it! We were so disconnected from each other, disrespectful and all the other adjectives that we shouldn't have been.

Have ya'll made your list of EP's? I can't remember if you posted that earlier.

I know exactly what you are talking about!
For 2+ years, H and I have been living separate lives together!
Taking our eyes off of Jesus and depending on "human tradition" in our thoughts and actions was a slippery slope that we allowed ourselves to succumb to...
It has taken this wake-up call for both of us.
One of my favorite verses is Romans 5:8 ~

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

I, too, look back at the time we spent away from God and each other, and cannot conceive that we both had believed the lies that we allowed the enemy to use against us!

And, yes, we will not take our coming back to Jesus in our marriage for granted! We are committed to doing the hard work that is required for us to love God and each other every day for as long as we have a breath in us!!! The ONLY way we can do this is by protecting ourselves from the lies that the enemy wants us to believe by keeping ourselves in Christ and in each other!

Making our list of EP's is our current work in progress...
Since Wednesday, 07/25/2012, one or both of us think of at least one more to add to the list.

I love Colossians 2:8
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ."
Blessings ~

We have refered to that verse often. There are so many verses we turn to when things get rough.

I don't think we would have made it if we did'nt have a christian counselor and the MB concepts. It's a very scary thought!

Here is my H's list of EP's. I enjoy looking over other recovering couples EP's and getting ideas from others them.


I am responsible to protect my wife at all times. It is an honor to do so!

1. No riding in a vehicle alone with a woman under the age of 60.
(Your sister, mother, mother in law ect. Is fine)
2. No meals alone with a woman under the age of 60.
3. No discussion of personal matters with women. Ex. Do not seek counsel of any sort with a female, no family/marriage issues discussed.
4. I will not share my problems or concerns with another woman.
5. I will not put myself in an advice giver role with another woman, unless my wife is present and has given her prior approval.
6. I will not spend any time alone with another woman without the approval of my wife.
7. I will not share my infirmities with another woman.
8. No hugging women. Hand-shake or �side arm� hug if necessary. Unless they are elderly or family.
9. Any txt/email to/from a woman that is not business related will be seen by my wife.
10. I will change my email and phone # and any other source of communication a person from my �sin-filled � past may use.
11. If a woman from my �sin-filled� past attempts to contact me, I will not respond, and then tell my wife immediately, forwarding any txt/email to my wife.
12. If a woman flirts with me or compliments me I will bring up my wife in the conversation, (ex...�my wife loves my huge muscles too�) then immediately exit the conversation.
13. I will �cc� my wife�s email for any correspondence with a female that is not work related.
14. I will give full access of all my business records to my wife.
15. I will agree to give all passwords, account codes business and personal to my wife.
16. I will openly share my daily schedule with my wife.
17. At any time she requests, I will trade cell phones with my wife for the time she deems necessary.
18. I will delete/discard any emails/txt/pics/mementos (from my past) of any kind from any woman, other than my wife. My wife may check my desk/computer/phone at any time.
19. I will always defer to my wife regarding any outside activity and will agree to eliminate any activity she feels is interfering in our relationship or the relationships of our children.
20. My wife and I will, together, share a Face-book/Myspace ect. Account.
21. I will not play phone games/computer games, ie. Scramble, hanging w friends ect.. with women.
22. I will not engage in any cyber games. Ex. W.O.W., Runescape, Second life, ect. This is a breeding ground for a secret life and affairs.
23. No pornography of any sort including �soft� porn. Refer to the "Kids-in-mind" app for all movies.
24. No more "self-pleasuring"
25. My wife and I will agree on all FB friends.
26. I will add to this list any boundaries that my wife deems necessary to make her feel safe in our marriage.
27. I will submit to a polygraph test any time my wife requests.

Drinking Alcohol
1. I will drink alcohol only with my wife present.
2. No going to drinking establishments without my wife.
3. 2-drink limit in a 4 hour period
4. 4-drink limit in a 24 hour period


We have added to this as we go. I really need to organize it a little better.

Hi Wise1 - I was just wondering how you are doing, how things are going?

Are you counseling with the Harleys? Are you spending so much wonderful UA time that you don't have a chance to post here? (Hope so!!)

I'd love to hear how you and Pancho are doing.

Originally Posted by Zhamila

Originally Posted by Wise1

I am going to hold his feet to the fire until he proves to me that he really will do whatever it takes.
Thank you for your encouragement.

Hi Wise1 - I was just wondering how you are doing, how things are going?

Are you counseling with the Harleys? Are you spending so much wonderful UA time that you don't have a chance to post here? (Hope so!!)

I'd love to hear how you and Pancho are doing.

Hello, Zhamila ~
Thank you for your concern.
After undergoing several tests over the past 2-1/2 weeks, Pancho and I were told by his internal medicine doctor, his cardiologist and his vascular surgeon that three out of four of his carotid arteries (in his neck) are 100% "occluded".
In other words they are 100% "blocked".
We were given this information last Monday, July 31, 2012.
Pancho has one carotid artery that is feeding his brain with oxygen and blood.
Because of the severity of the occlusion, surgery is not an option at this time.
The three affected arteries are completely shriveled up to the point that there is nothing for the physicians to try to "repair" because they are, physically, non-existent.
Pancho has been experiencing infrequent, odd symptoms over the past 12+ months.
His internal medicine doctor, cardiologist and I were convinced these symptoms were the result of stress...
It was only after his cardiologist finally had him undergo an MRI that the severity of the problem showed up.
When the vascular surgeon showed us the MRI results, I could not get over the clarity of the pics of Pancho's arteries!
It was so very cut and dried as to why the surgeon said that surgery, at this point, is not an option!
There's hardly anything there!
Up until the MRI, all of the other tests came back showing no problems...
Heart rate ~ Normal
Blood Pressure ~ Normal
EKG ~ Normal
Yet, the symptoms persisted!
The one carotid artery that is doing all the work, has had to compensate for the three that are not able to work, and has been manifesting itself for many years, our physicians think.
All of this to say, that, yes, we are spending much UA time in reading scripture together, praying together, Dr. Harley's books together and articles together.
When Pancho feels really good, we walk our property together.
We go to church together.
Right now, our quality UA time is spent very simply.
He is scheduled to meet with a neurologist, hopefully, next week.
The consensus, so far, is that his only option right now is meds.
He started Plavix last Friday.
I hope you are a prayer warrior.
If ever there were a time that we need prayer, it is now.
My visits to MB are very infrequent simply because, right now, my focus is in ministering to Pancho.
It is interesting how God allows unexpected circumstances to come into one's life in order to get one to seek Him first in "all" things...
Thank you, again, for your concern and your kind post.
Blessings ~
Wise1 & Pancho

Oh Wise1! I am so sorry to hear this, and you can count on my prayers!! May God bless and keep you both.

((((((((((Wise1 & Pancho)))))))))))

(((Wise1))), so sorry to hear this. I know the stress must be overwhelming at times.

Be sure and take care of yourself as well.

I will pray for ya'll also