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Originally Posted By: loveherafaad
All of the financial infidelity and connected lack of respect ended her desire to stay in the marriage.


Someone with no brain said this. And you believe them. Why?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Everything she is doing is straight out of the wayward handbook!

Everything she is doing is TYPICALLY wayward!


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: loveherafaad
I will weigh my options on the best way to expose the affair. I have to be careful bc the job I'm applying for WILL talk to her and if I screw with her job she can EASILY end my career.

I'm really struggling here to understand how you telling the truth could compromise your position or future employment. I am really struggling to understand how a proven liar and adulteress wields so much power over your career and life. I had no idea telling the truth could be so devastating to one's career ambitions, let alone family ambitions.

She doesn't want divorce anymore than you do, but not for the reasons she's indicated. She just an addled drunk right now thriving on the attentions of 2 men, and until you actually do something radical about it, she will continue to do so.

If I were you I would file for divorce right now on grounds of adultery, and have the POSOM subpoenaed for testimony in a court of law. As indie said she's driving the bus, and it's time for you to man up and take that wheel back. While you're in retrieval mode, I would also make an effort at getting your nads back as well. I think they're in your WW's purse in that side pocket next to the tube of lipstick.

Just do something, please. The longer you wait, the harder it gets.


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


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Originally Posted By: indiegirl
So stop trying to have little chats with her ok?


Yep. These back and forths are extremely damaging to a marriage. So stop having them!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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You talk AT a wayward not TO them or WITH them

Example:

LHAAF 'You look very beautiful today WW, I wondered if you wanted to grab some lunch"

WW: 'I am waaaay too unreasonable to agree to that. I dont love you! Our marriage was never good! Leave me alone and give me space!!!!!'

LHAFF 'Your decision, sweetheart. Let me know if you change your mind. Well then I will take the children while you have a little break. We might do something super fun afterwards. Text me if you want to join us.'

WW: 'I haaaaaaate everrrrrything. Woe is me. I am so unhappy and IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT for not washing the dishes that one time when I asked you to. Wahhhhhmbulance!"

LHAFF. Indeed. I heard something very interesting today. Apparently if you shave a polar bear it is black underneath! Isn't that an unusual fact?

WW: I AM SO FURIOUS AT EVERYONE FOR TELLING ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE. I love the OM!!

LHAFF: "It seems your affair has made you quite upset, so I will get going, and let you have a little rest sugarplum."

Then you go and do something great with the kids and text her pictures of all the family fun she is missing while she sits in a puddle of self made misery.

Plan A is EMPOWERING when done right.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I told her today I WILL fight for her and not give up. I told her I am grilling steaks tomm and to come for dinner. I will try a set of shifts in my attitude and start setting up family events more demands than requests.

I am not giving up! This emotional roller coaster sucks and she is always quiet when I talk but at least she does not yell so much. I was told start the divorce papers by a few people as a show of force (concencus???). I don't want to force the issue if i can fight for her.

My mom said she will be pleasent when WS drops the kids off. All friends are out of the picture so there is no help there. I may try to call her brother tommorrow and talk with him but can't fell that i can trust any of her family members. I will continue to reinforce that I will fight for her and will prove the man that I have become and the husband that i am!

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Indie- I do text pics of the kids and I to her. She rarely text back but I know she gets them. I may start adding some "wish you were here" to the pictures. Monday I am taking the kids toa small waterpark and asked her to go she thought about it but can't go. I have to set something up for about 2 weeks from now but will try that tomm and have her come. Waterpark adn nice family picnic lunch.

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That sounds great and the 'wish you were here' is a good way to meet the affection EN.



Dont worry about her not responding. Dont expect anything. If she ever yells say 'I expect you to be civil' and leave straight away. You will never yell of course.

But we need to focus on running off OM for now.

Originally Posted By: loveherafaad
I was told start the divorce papers by a few people as a show of force (concencus???).


BSs are told by Dr H to always first of all go see a lawyer and a doctor for ADs. I still think ADs are worth looking into for you because shes been gaslighting you for q some time.

I dont think you are ready to file for a D, but tell a lawyer you think your wife cant be trusted and ask if he thinks you need legal protection. He may advise you to file for legal protection. I would also ask him about alienation of affection suits. Some people can sue OM for breaking up the M, depends on your local laws.

But first and foremost you MUST expose to OM's family!!!!

That is job number one. Your WW has an escape route when she is faced with a wall of disapproval everywhere at home. What is to stop her fantasising about moving away to England with OM?

OM is getting off scot free and he must be run off.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: indiegirl
What happened with the webites I recommended for finding OMs family?

Was his name just too common or what? Does he come from a small village, big city or what? What do you know about him?

I am sure a PI could dig this stuff up. This is VITAL and should not be skipped over.

Workplace exposure is vital too..


This was my earlier post re exposure.

What stalled the search for OMs family?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Indie is spot on, waywards lie you cannot believe anything they say, you cannot reason with them. You can still fight for your marriage even though your WW says "I don't love you Iam not coming back ever" this is wayward fogbabble. You still have a chance.


Me 46yrs
WH 46yrs "Isildur"
Married: 22yrs 8mths
DS 9yrs;DD 19yrs;DS 21yrs
Bomb drop:marriage not working don't know if ILY 12.11.11
DD:26.11.11
WH moves to OW house 28.11.11
Formal MB Plan A 14.4.12
Plan B 27.4.12
D:20.7.14

"There are moments in life that make us & set the course of who we become. Sometimes they're little & subtle,sometimes they're big & we never saw them coming. No one asks for their life to change, but it does. It's what we do afterwards that counts & we find out who we are."
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Yes the last name links up to everything but family etc (Cable). I had the same problem researching a friends grandfather. The name links up with "cable tv" "cable news" etc.

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Zero cash for a lawyer. Had some free consults but representation is 6-10K. Any ideas on how to proceed on a shoe string budget?

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Originally Posted By: loveherafaad
Yes the last name links up to everything but family etc (Cable). I had the same problem researching a friends grandfather. The name links up with "cable tv" "cable news" etc.


I don't know what this means?

When you put a name into 192.com you get names, addresses and phone numbers of people with the surname you are searching for. Did that happen?

You also might get details of a company if a person with that name is listed as a company director. Did that happen?

When you put a name into BT.com you also get phone numbers for people with that name. When I put my family name and city into BT.com, I got a result of several phone numbers. One of them is a great aunt of mine, so if someone were looking to expose me, they'd have a contact point if they went through that list.

Did BT.Com give you any phone numbers for people with his surname in the right location?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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My advice regarding legal papers is this: File for abandonment, adultery, and sole physical and legal custody of the kids.

When she barks about it, tell her that there are two paths before her. On one path she ends her affair, returns to the marital home, begins recovery, and rebuilds the marriage. On the other path is divorce and all its ugliness. It will be nasty, brutal, and fought without mercy.

My frustration is that no plan is being followed. Plan A involves doing the necessary exposure. That means contacting the OMs HR department and letting them know that one of their financial advisors is having an affair. Exposure to the family is a possibility if it can be done. Do the due diligence to track down the family and use BT.com to help. A PI will get you all the info you need for $100.

This is all done with preparations for Plan B. That means getting the logistics for B ready. You have an IM. You have family willing to work with you. But Plan B requires complete and total darkness. That means blocking phone calls, texts, and not answering the door if she shows up without warning.

If you buy into her fog babble you will lose. If you accept her babble that shes done and that there is no hope, then you are doomed.

If you understand and accept that her fog babble is no different than the rants of a drunk, then you can move forward.

Accept that words will not turn her. Actions will turn her if she can be turned at all.

You are getting GOLDEN nuggets of knowledge and advice here. All you have to do is choose to follow it and accept that your situation isnt unique or different or that Steph is somehow a different type of WW. They are all the same, without exception. The only variance is the degree of crazy.

Confront OM. Take a cop buddy with you to be a witness that you didnt threaten or get out of line, but show up and tell him to leave your wife alone.

Take the attitude that SHE is the one that must do the work to win you back.

At this point you have nothing to lose. Shes out of the house, she says that you guys are done. So any action on your part will either keep the status quo or will knock sense into her. Either way, you make out.

Want some free advice? Call the Harleys radio show at noon and see if they can provide some advice. Theyre the pros. Bring up your challenge with exposing to OMs family because they are Brits. Bring up your concerns with your job.

Ask about whether or not you should file for legal protection at this time.

As far as legal protection goes, you can google fathers rights and get all kinds of information for how to represent yourself pro-se. Guys like Mr. W can help you in terms of navigating the systems and filing the right papers.

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His last name is cable. I told her last night I am not giving up. I will take a while and then ask her over for dinner again. When she picked the kids up yesterday I told her I was making pizza and it was too much for the 3 of us but perfect for the 4 of us. She ate and thanked me. I told her I am not giving. I am taking our son out bowling Sunday and asked her to go with us so I can also take our daughter. It drives me nuts about the OM but I have to plan out carefully not jump headfirst into it. I have a good friend who is helping. The common last name and not knowing where he is from in England makes it difficult. So far no reaction from her when I say I am "still going to pursue you". Some sighs a few eye rolls but no yelling.

I figure what will I loose? What is she going to do? Have an affair? Divorce me???? I have nothing to lose and a marrigae to gain (a difficult marriage and family/friend life but our marriage none the less).

I did talk to her 1 brother who really likes me and said he is trying to talk to her but she does not reply much to text. I am trying to get him to come down sat to see her and hang out with her.

I guess I am back in Plan A. My emotions are more leveled out. I get angry but am better at keeping it under control around her. It is uncomfortable but I am getting more comfortable with the idea if she files and divorces me I will be better able to handle it as every day goes by.

I will be in contact with a lawyer regarding the above advice from HFLD and also in contact with a PI, as well as a tech friend when he gets back from vacation. NO MORE poor planning!

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Sounds like you need a PI if you don't know where he's from.

Have you tried googling him along with his job title or profession? That may get you a UK job location.

Have you tried calling immigration? OM rarely play by the rules.

Saying 'I will not give up' is OK, but I would plan to show her a fight, rather than talking about one. Keep your time pleasant, compliments, affection etc.

Become a great actor who is so confident he doesn't even need to talk about the A.

If a lawyer tells you to file, shell be outraged but just say 'I do not talk D, I talk marriage. The D will end when your A does' and change the subject.

Let your actions, like exposure, be the stick. Talking stick can sound like empty threats.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Loveher, okay, STOP TELLING HER YOU WILL BE HERE FOR HER.

She has heard it enough already. It also feeds into the wayward mindset that they will be able to go off and have their fun, and their BS will be there after it all, because they love them so much. And the kicker, if you get sick of it all, and decide that you don't want to continue a relationship with her? She'll have PROOF that you never loved her enough. Waywards are crazy.

Okay, now let's get you into a solid Plan A. Have you read EVERYTHING about Plan A? What are her top 3 ENs? How can you meet them today?


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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I will try to figure her top 3 EM. I can def satisfy the sense of family (she can NEVER challenge that). I have become a great actor. In spite of everything she has done I take a deep breath and James Bond. When I ask her over for a family meal or out as a family (easier to start with that and expand to just us later). I say it as matter of fact. No orders, crying etc. She says no I say ok I'll give it a few days and ask you out again.

Talked with WS BF (former) today and she thinks the same thing that WS wanted to go play then come back. BF said that 2 months after WS moved out (before the OM was found out by me) WS told BF that she was on the fence about coming back (when she left it was no way she is coming back). BF said she also thinks the affair and loss of family/friends threw that plan out of the window. BF also thinks she is finding reasons not to file bc she is afraid of the divorce and prob knows this affair won't last long. How can a cheater trust another cheater?

I will talk to HFLD and try to figure out her top 3 EM's. I am planning better now because my emotions are WAY more level than before and getting steadier every day.

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Got the intel on OM vehicle. He was at her appt his vehicle beside hers. I called the PI and met him, showed him EVERYTHING! Gave him the whole thing on a silver platter. He said he would have a guy on it in the morning. I told him he would be out between 7-9 am and not return. I had plans set with WS, myself and our children. PI dropped the ball and was there at 5am and the other PI could not show. So now I am waiting on them to get the PDA for proof.

Told WS that I will have to have a supoena sent to his work place if he does not come into court and swear a affadavit to the affair. She has told me "it's not easy to explain why he can't". I told her to explain and she can't. I have the PI's at work guessing I can make it so IF he wants to see her in 2 weeks he has to come down here. After I have proof then I will have a friend call to get his work address that he would want a subpoena sent to with regards to any court paperwork related to the divorce. (I spoke this whole thing over with my Lt. who said that is the way to go. He has been through a divorce before and had to take police credentials away from people temporarily because of things they did during a divorce). Because of my jib and applying for a job where she lives (jurisdiction) it IS touchy. I don't know if she is even telling him about the subpoena, court etc. In talking with friends this will add pressure for him to see if the A if worth it. I am still trying to crush the A (I still believe she is done but there is fight left in me). I don't want to scare him off so I can get proof of the A from the PI.

This is a difficult thing because I still want the marriage to work and told her so. She refuses to come over for any meals (told me she was angry because I was using the kids to get her over for meals. I told her that I felt it would be more comfortable for her to have meals with the family before asking her out with just ourselves).

I am still working on a separation agreement (she has alot of "corrections" which I don't agree with) She is angry so I will stop calling and texting unless needed to back off. I told her I would not ask her over for dinner (just angered her). I don't know if I can win her back or it is lost even if the A ends. Friends think she regrets what happened but will not admit and with the loss of friends and family she feels it is impossible for her to come back to me. I do reassure her I want her back and love her and we can make the marriage work. I feel she knows and it may be best to let the PI's work and get the proof, then lean on OM for a supoena at his place of work. I have a friends who is waiting to take his money out of his account (WS is his financial advisor) but he wants to do it with WS and her branch manager present.

Advice? I know the plan evolves and changes but there is alot going on and I am still trying to break the A (dk if that would bring her back in my arms or she would find someonelse or keep the A regardless), trying to keep things with my job and application good and trying to "Figure out the drunk" in her (I know don't try). She is hard to deal with and I still want to try even though no one can figure out why.

Thanks

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Originally Posted By: loveherafaad
Told WS that I will have to have a supoena sent to his work place if he does not come into court and swear a affadavit to the affair.

First thing, stop telling your opponent the battle plan. And make no mistake about it, your WW is the "enemy" right now. I know it hurts to feel that way, but it may make it easier to do what you have to do to look at her in that fashion while you're fighting this battle.

Quote:
Friends think she regrets what happened but will not admit and with the loss of friends and family she feels it is impossible for her to come back to me. I do reassure her I want her back and love her and we can make the marriage work.

It would serve you well to have your friends tell HER that if she is willing to end the biggest mistake of her life that she will not be abandoned by them. That's a big part of exposure; to enlist the aid of family and friends in putting an end to all this. Your friends are actually enabling her by ignoring her at the moment. They need to crawl up her butt, make this as uncomfortable as possible, yet be supportive at the same time, but lay it out that if she chooses to continues this betrayal, the she's on her own. In other words, seriously tough love.

Quote:
This is a difficult thing because I still want the marriage to work and told her so. She refuses to come over for any meals (told me she was angry because I was using the kids to get her over for meals. I told her that I felt it would be more comfortable for her to have meals with the family before asking her out with just ourselves).

What was her response to this? She's uncomfortable because she knows what she is doing is wrong, but doesn't know how to get out of it. I'm surprised she can find her way to the mailbox right now, let alone her way back to you and your family.

Quote:
I told her I would not ask her over for dinner (just angered her).

The only reason I'm adding this is because it amplifies what I said above. Do you see the contradiction? The point I'm trying to make is that your words are useless right now. You just keep inviting (Plan A) and let the chips fall where they may. I can assure you, if you quit inviting, she'll definitely remember and resent that (Plan C).

Keep doing what you are doing on the digging and ramp up the pressure on OM. I would still like to see you confront this POS, but there's only so many ways I can try to convince you it's in your best interest. Since you have confided in your Lt. about this, ask what you may be able to get away with. I would also love to hear just what was done by others that had credentials taken away. I seriously doubt coming face to face with a POS that is a clear and present danger to his family was one of them.

Ask him. Seriously, ask him, and tell us what he says.


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


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