I would end the marriage because there is nothing here to save. This is not a one time mishap committed by a otherwise good person. This is a way of life for a serial cheater.

Your situation is hopeless unless she makes radical changes in her lifestyle. You and I both know she is not going to do that for you. That is not an "opinion," but a matter of FACT. All the "opinions" in the world will not change the truth of your situation.

The fact that you don't comprehend this truth tells me you have a serious problem with poor judgement. Your history with unstable women should tell you that but you don't seem to learn from your mistakes.

I say this as a person who has made lots of mistakes in my past. If you don't start learning from your mistakes and begin using reason and logic in your decisions, you are going to have a very sad future.

Your emotions have led you to some very bad places because emotions have no intelligence. Your future is not bright unless you change that.

To summarize, I don't see that she is the problem. The problem is your own poor judgement that guides poor decision making.

Surely you can conclude that life with a serial cheater will be a life of hell? And surely you can conclude she will never change for you? If you can use your powers of reason to see these basic truths, then you should also conclude that you should just get out before you lose more.

She will eventually divorce you when she has taken as much as she can anyway.

you asked for opinions.

when my H had his a, despite all the years we had spent together, if we did not have a child i may have gone to plan d (but who can say at this late date). having a child together made me want to keep the family together if at all possible. we ALSO had a long history of M and non-adulterous behaviour.

however, now that i have been through that experience, any further incidents of adultery-like behaviour WILL result in a D. i am NOT going through that again, ever. MB has made me stronger as a person, and with an understanding of what it takes to have a good M; i won't waste myself on someone undeserving. thanks to MB, my H has learned to be deserving of me.

you have been married a short time. you have no children. your spouse has a lifestyle problem (it's ongoing, not a disastrous one off). you are still young.

it is every spouses OWN decision whether to end the M or not. only you can decide. it is your right to leave after an a. it is also your right not to, but you should consider whether your souse is remorseful, has ended the a, and is willing to work on the M.

sorry, this is rambly. my point, i think, is that recovery is a boatload of work for a VERY long time. is it worth it for you?

i am very happy to have a better husband and an intact family. the result is good enough to help overcome the a - MB has made an incredible difference to our M. we also had enough history prior to the a to make it worthwhile to recover the M.

sorry - i realise this is too long and repetitive, but don't have time to edit right now :O)

I see what you are saying. You are right.

I am a person on logic & reasoning...and this all makes sense.
It really does.

My family read some of these comments, & told me to print them out so they can remind me what was said.

I guess deep down I want to help her do the right thing.
That she is a lost soul that needs help.
But she is a grown 37 year old woman, that should know better.

Plan B cuts you off from contacing her but it does not cut off her chances of contacting you.

She is free at any time to contact your intermediary (IM).

Your intermediary will insist she fulfil all MB conditions and prove herself before allowing contact with you.

But I think you and I both know she won't.

However knowing she is not contacting your IM, not serious and that you've done all you could will remove all doubts.

I suggest Plan B so you can get on with your own healing without any doubts and without being manipulated.



Plan B will give her a chance to see what D is really like, what being without you is really like. If she still does not contact your IM promising remorseful actions, then she has made her choice as a grown woman.

One of the reasons that exposure won't help in your situation is because the power of exposure lies in its ability to pierce the fog. Your wife is not in a fog. This is NORMAL for her, so the weapon of exposure will avail you nothing, IMO.

If you agree with me on these 2 points:

1. that your marriage is hopeless unless she makes radical personal changes

and

2. that YOU cannot change her

....then you should be willing to take it to the next step. File for divorce NOW and then go to her and say I will give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness and demonstrate radical changes while the divorce is being processed. If you can demonstrate radical changes in that time, I will consider dropping the divorce. If not, we will be divorced.

If you make that offer, you win either way. If she changes - which I assure you she won't - you will have a great marriage. If not, then you will be divorced. You can't lose if you follow that plan.

You need to file for divorce NOW and get legal protection because she views you as a personal ATM to plunder and rape. This way you will be protected no matter what.

In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. Otherwise you want to get divorced. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc - complete access to her cell phone, bank account, email account

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

7. get rid of her computer and agree to never go on a computer unless you are there

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage with a serial cheater.

And it is not enough that she AGREES to those changes. Only actions will suffice. Make sure she understands that because any half witted liar can agree to anything just keep her sugar poppa daddy. Make it clear you will give her NO money and no support until and unless you see radical, demonstrable, convincing changes over a period of time.

Plan B will give her a chance to see what D is really like, what being without you is really like. If she still does not contact your IM promising remorseful actions, then she has made her choice as a grown woman.[/quote]


I see what you are saying.
That is a good clever use of my own words of a 'grown woman'.

You don't think she has the willingness to go thru with changing herself? I'm asking b/c I don't know how people act, in general.

The suggestion was made that she could be labeled as a narcissist. I haven't thought of that before.

Jeff, you simply cannot help people that are unwilling to help themselves. You can't do it for them. They have to have one seriously strong desire and willingness to make some massive lifestyle changes, and frankly, I don't think she has it in her even if she had the slightest desire to. Like you said, at 37 years of age, she hasn't figured this out yet. Think she'll figure it out in the next few years? Sorry, but I kinda doubt it.

And you're wrong about being twice divorced and not being an attractive option for women. Women are much more understanding than you think about your situation. Don't let that be a deterrent for doing what is best for you.

It's not worth it.

It doesn't matter what we think about whether she will change or not. Go see for yourself. File for divorce on Monday, then go and give her your conditions.

SEE for yourself if she will change. It is a waste of time to guess and speculate about it. Just go see if she will make radical changes.

Keep in mind that HOPE is not a plan. Hope and wishful thinking will get you nowhere. Only real, demonstrable changes will suffice.

NO. She does not need help. *YOU* are the only one who needs help. She is perfectly happy with her serial cheating and does not need or desire your help.

She might desire your MONEY, though.

Her last message to me is this:

"Jeff, I have read your email a few times. Honestly, I'm not ready to decide on anything right now. Even with (the other guy) out of the picture, I just don't know what I will eventually decide. I need time to think everything over. I have been on an emotional rollercoaster...I don't feel i can make the right decision until the rollercoaster comes to a stop...then I can think and feel clearly. i hope you find this fair of me to ask. I do still love you...I will always love you, no matter the end result."

THERE is your answer, my friend.

This is an excellent list. I will print this out.
I will send this to her.

I think her past reply to me (see above) is just 'fog' talk.

[/quote] THERE is your answer, my friend.[/quote]

What is she trying to say..right now I'm so numb..I can't read btwn the lines....

Yep, Jeff, you are nothing more to her than a gravy train for financing her sordid way of life. I'm trying to be kinder and gentler, but since Mel broached the subject first, I'll definitely jump on board with this. That's the first thing that popped into my head when you mentioned that you had made the mortgage payment so she could stay there, or something like that.

Getting back to that, you need to get your butt back in that house, and kick her [censored] out. Why did YOU leave? What have you done wrong? Why are you letting her feel no consequences for her actions? Go home, and tell her if this is the lifestyle she wishes to engage in then she can take her [censored] elsewhere. Don't allow this crap to happen under your roof, and then abandon your roof. Make HER leave.

Seriously, right now, tonight. This is [censored].

"Thank you for helping me make a decision. I will move forward on this basis."

She is not in a fog, though. She has just told you to buzz off because she is not interested in the marriage. She has moved onto a new stud.

Getting back to that, you need to get your butt back in that house, and kick her [censored] out. Why did YOU leave? What have you done wrong? Why are you letting her feel no consequences for her actions? Go home, and tell her if this is the lifestyle she wishes to engage in then she can take her [censored] elsewhere. Don't allow this crap to happen under your roof, and then abandon your roof. Make HER leave.

Seriously, right now, tonight. This is [censored].[/quote]

I just wanted to get away from it all...run away.
I knew I could be with my family, stay with them, get their support & I could have people to talk to. Me staying at home would be lonely. I know that I haven't done anything wrong. I think I wanted to take the high road & be the better person.

I have to admit, when I first confronted her..I told her to get her '[censored]' out by Friday. lol I'm not one to get angry at people I know, so it felt weird to say that to her.

But I think letting her stay there..it makes her feel even worse. I know she feels that I am a good guy & that most people would have kicked her out. She has told me that I am a great guy that does not deserve her.

I would get her to move on out so you can protect your legal interests. If you can do that, you might avoid having to pay her mortgage while she brings men home to sleep with. I seriously doubt you want to finance that, do you? Do you want to finance her affair lair?

I don't think she knows any local men. It makes sense that she wouldn't. I think she is really afraid of people knowing what she is up to, so she looked online for people. People that are far away, or at least far from where we live but still drivable.

There are still people that I have not exposed too...several friends, etc. I can get into her facebook account.
Should I even think about exposing to them?