Thanks to you both, NED and SugarCane. He would leave no matter what: I bought the house before I met him, it's in my name only. He's fine with that.

We have not spoken since that conversation yesterday. We have avoided each other all night and day. I do not think he will change his mind, and I'm actually quite relieved.

I wish he had stopped the abuse and joined me in creating a great marriage. But at this point I am sooooo glad to be near the end of fear, pain, and sadness - I feel lighter and more serene. And I am looking forward to spending my time enjoying my childrens' company in an emotionally safe, loving home.

Housekeeping Q:

Is there an easy way to download my posts? I'd like to be able to pull them out someday when I'm sad and remember what really happened...

You can email individual posts or whole threads to any email account. Use the Email Post button at the bottom of one of the posts you want, to see the options.

Thank you!!

Well, the silence is broken. He wants to 'try again.' I'm not sure I want to get on the ferris wheel again.

I gave him the Agreement to Eliminate Abuse tonight (from a Patricia Evans book on verbally abusive men). The more I understand verbal (and other) abuse - from Dr. Harley and other MB-consistent sources - the more I realize how damaging this marriage has been.

I told him that Abuse/Anger is our #1 problem. It prevents the solving of every other problem.

I am so done. I wonder whether I should keep moving away or give him another chance. I mean, I've already started looking forward to a pain-free (ok, marriage-pain-free!) life! How can I consider going back into the dark?

This sucks.

Advice? Anyone regret not trying harder? Anyone regret having hung on too long?

Me. Looking back I know the exact moment I should have bailed. I stuck it out for 7 more years. Hindsight is 20-20 and all that though. I stayed married for 26 years so I know how it feels to want it to work.

No regrets. There are no bad decisions here. LIke that thoughtful request, you can decide to "try again" for 2 weeks, and then see how you feel. Then all you've lost is 2 weeks of your life. But if that rings as not a good plan for you, you have your answer already. Have him to go anyway, and then if he does the work to become safe again, it'll become obvious, and you will fall back in love with him. As the article says, you are in much more chance of letting him back too soon than not soon enough.

If he gets it, he'll understand why you want to try again from 2 houses. When to Call It Quits 1 I think outlines how to try again from 2 houses, and When to Call it Quits 2 outlines how to try again from one house.

Thank you SmilingWoman! I've only been married for 3 1/2 years, so I admire your perseverance!

If you have a thread here, I'll go try to find it and read & learn.

NED, I love that you reminded me that there are no regrets either way. Thank you.

I guess you are right, giving it a few more days is not the end of the world. I was just so relieved to be moving on and I feel sick inside that I might have to do this longer. Maybe til Monday?

I did tell him last night that I'd like to separate and work on this from afar. He told me if we separate "it's all over" in his mind. However, I really need a break - I need peace, safety and freedom from fear. I wouldn't mind working on our marriage, but I think I'm petered out emotionally living with him every day.

He said a funny thing last night, "We are both better off married to each other." Really? Funny how he didn't ask me if I am better off married to him. He just assumes that I am.

I feel invisible.

Still thinking.........................

Wow Z, sorry for what you are dealing with now.

I would think him saying he wants to give things a try would be a good sign ? Maybe you guys should agree to really focus on the UA time for a few weeks, the full MB UA time, and see what happens.

Second marriages have high failure rate, but the odds for a third are even worse. I would want to know I tried everything possible before walking away.

Is he still going to AM classes? I know this couple, and the man had major issues with his anger, we could actually hear AO's from inside of our house with windows closed! He went to AM classes, at first I still heard AO's, but after a while they stopped and I have never heard one since.

It took a bit but he seems to have really learned to control his temper. Maybe for some it doesn't "click" and fall into place as fast as others ?

Thanks for the feedback, TisMe. You gave me a lot to think about.

Here are my thoughts for the moment, but they can change hourly:

....my struggle is that he has said that he wants to 'give things a try' but his behavior has not changed. Steve Harley told me to 'look for progress, not perfection.' But when I continue to receive anger and threats on a weekly basis, this doesn't feel like progress.

I have a lot of shame at the thought of failing in marriage again. But for now, the pain is kind of outweighing that shame. And as to a 3rd marriage? I don't ever want to remarry - I can't do this again, it hurts way too much & I'm obviously not "getting it right."

Yes, he goes to AM 1x per week, and last week he came home from his class and lost his temper. I want those classes to kick in.

I don't want to say "no" to another try. What if he were really determined this time? I don't want to fail - again.

Ugh.

If he got it, if you were set up for success from a good try, it would be obvious. He would understand why you want to separate, and wouldn't be insisting that he can't come back from separation.

The idea of trying even for a few more days is repulsive to you, that kind of says it all right there. You can get out of the way of his consequences, knowing you have done what you can. You stuck with him until he got to the AM, let that do it's work. Being with you doesn't fix it, doing the work fixes it. You remember how obvious the progress was when it was there.

((Hugs)) to you Zhamila, you'll make it through!

Do not allow him to pressure you. If he wants to work it out he will be willing to do what you need to feel safe, and he will accept that, in the end, you may not be able to give it another try.

I think you should separate. If he is threatening "That's it then!" then that tells you all you need to know about his ability to be a part of a successful marriage.

Thanks Kerala. You're right about needing to feel safe - I need it so badly. I wish I could feel safe with him here, but I feel like I'm just waiting for the next blow-up.

I am so sad.

Thank you so much NED. You're helping me see things straighter.

I suppose if there were real change on his part, he might tell me how much the marriage means to him, how he's willing to 100% eliminate abuse, and how he's committed to do his part in the marriage.

I've heard none of these things.

Come to think of it, even his asking to "try again" had no acknowledgement of the hurtful part he has been playing, nor any other olive branch. It was just another list of his requirements for making the marriage work, including the issue that made him threaten to leave in the first place: "Never criticize each other in front of the kids."

I like what you said about "being with you doesn't fix it, doing the work fixes it." That's very wise!

Thank you also for the encouragement and hugs.

(((Zhamila)))

I'm so sorry.

Thank you for the hugs! I am taking your advice to heart.

Zhamila if the corner is turned, it'll be beyond obvious, no more waiting for signs, you know? You all had progress before, you remember it, obvious. It's just hard to sustain if the behaviors don't change long enough to make that real heart change in their beliefs. I am proud of your H for even trying, many don't. This failed attempt will make it that much easier for when he's really ready.

And I am proud of you. You did examine your beliefs and stay consistent with your changes long enough to turn the corner and make that lasting change for yourself. The next steps will take some careful consideration and timing, safety first, let your gut guide you to the "when."

You know I still hope that your H will connect to some reason to pick up the ball again. My ex hasn't as far as I know, but I still have full hope that there is a whole new life waiting for him when he's ready. It took me a long time to understand that it wasn't about me and him. He can make a full recovery even if I am totally out of the picture.

Thank you NED!

We are taking things day by day. We had a couple of decent talks, then pretty much dropped the focus on the relationship for now. I am living moment by moment, rather than focusing on the future. Things are much better, and I'll just stay in the moment and see how we do. We actually enjoyed ourselves this weekend, together.

I am fine either way at this point. My 'finger is on the trigger' and I'm over the shame of failure, but I'm also free of the anger and baggage I've been holding inside. Something "broke" inside me this weekend...I'm taking it slow, just relaxing completely, being honest with myself, and my H while having fun.

Day by day.


Thank you so much for your encouragement NED, Kerala, Anointed, SugarCane, and all the others!