Neverguessed - I have to say that I really appreciate your to the point posts and I get what you are saying

Thanx. I'm usually good for about five posts, and then the recipient decides I'm overbearing and judgmental! (I can hear the chorus of Texans all saying, "It doesn't take five posts!")

You've gotten some great feedback here about Plan B, some from experienced implementers. Rely on their support. Half the battle is winning yourself over. The strict practice of Plan B itself will then force WH to conform.

When choosing your IM, it shouldn't be a family member, and definitely NOT one of WSs family members, no matter how close you are to him/her. Next, it would be best to have someone whom is the same gender as the BS.

The better the IM, the more effective the Plan b will be in keeping the BS protected.

With those choices that you presented, I would use the neighbour. Only, she would need to learn about how to filter. I would offer my services to help in the beginning and guide any IM you choose.

Welcome to MB. Sorry you are here in these circumstances. MB is the best place to begin to work towards recovery.

One thing i wanted to mention was that in my story (about the last 10 pages) MY MIL dragged my dd14 through my MIL's affair. My daughter got caught up in the drama and didnt tell us and because of that she got quite the attitude. It was not until we snooped on DD to find out why she was not being herself to discover that grandma (MIL) was building her army agasint her hubby to leave for her OM. Trying o persuade my DD to move in with her (telling her she can have her own horse .. etc. Once I found out about it, i blew it all out of the water with the MB techniques. It didnt pan out well for MIL and FIL(they are divorcing) but i cut them out of my DD's life for a plan B of our own to eliminate our DD"s stress .. she was slipping in school like your DD is experiencing and we told DD the truth and exposed grandma to entire family .. (even FIL was in the dark about it as we got the info kinda sneaky like.. more like tricked her for the affair info lol) Since going into plan B with MIL and FIL .. DD14 has become ALOT better. She sees and understands the truth now and has brought her school work back up to straight a"s again.

Plan B will bring some peace to your home AND leave a narrow path for your hubby to make his way back (if thats what you choose)

MNG

Jay, I vote for your cousin. As long as she can remain neutral in her DEALINGS with your husband and agree to act as a spam filter, she will be fine. She has to agree not to cuss him out when she feels like it though. All she is would be a SPAM filter, passing on PERTINENT information in her own words.

She would not pass on any rantings and ravings from your spouse. It is the easiest job in the world if you do it right. If she wants to do it, I would be glad to help her. Usually I help an IM once or twice and then they catch on quickly.

I would be glad to provide my email address if your IM wants some help.

Thank you Melody and Scotland. I will talk to both my neighbour and my cousin and see if either of them are willing to help me.

I must say that I feel so much better today because I have a plan and am taking action. Now I am going to start drafting my plan B letter and when I go to plan B it is going to be pitch black (and you can all hold me accountable on that).

MrNiceGuy it's interesting what happened with your 14 year old. I think one of the reasons my 13 year old has a terrible attitude at the moment is she knows what her dad is doing is wrong so the only way she can show this is by not seeing him and acting out with me. Not only has she lost her dad and her grandad but she doesn't see WH's mother either. So she really has lost a large chunk of her family.


Littlebit3 - yes my WH did leave when I asked him to. I had no evidence of an affair but he went out one night (first evening out in a long time) and got back really late. He came to bed and then he woke me up because he'd gone out for a drive (4am). I sat up and waited for him to come home but he just got back into bed. So I called him downstairs and shouted that I wanted to know who he'd been seeing. He admitted he'd been seeing someone so I told him to pack and go. It was a Facebook affair with someone that went to the same school as him and it seems they'd been in touch via Facebook for a few months, then met up occasionally for two months by the time I found out. Later my eldest daughter told me she knew her dad had been sending a lot of texts in the late evening when I was in bed.

I didn't handle things as I would have done if I had known about MB then but nothing I can do about that now. My WH told me about a month after he left that he was scared of me!! He can't take anyone being angry with him.

In my heart I don't think my WH is willing to do the hard work needed to change things but as I said before I want to know I did everything I could.

Wow, I am sooooo sorry that you had to go through this. He is blaming you for his inability to deal with your anger. Even though it is common sense to anyone that someone would get hurt/mad/angry/resentful for being cheated on, lied to, deceived, etc... It is not right, but understandable. I have learned from MB that showing my anger is a no-no. I didn't show my anger for sooo long. I think it is normal to feel anger at our H's for cheating, especially the repeated choices to continue doing what they do. What are you supposed to do with your feelings when they repeatedly lie, cheat, deceive, abuse and won't listen to you telling them that it hurts you? But, anyway, I now know that we are not supposed to act on that anger. We are supposed to be mature and respectful in dealing with them. I haven't been able to achieve that in the face of his continued deceipt and SSL as well as I would like to have.

That is why I need to get into Plan B. He won't leave, so I have to get him out by filing. That just takes a while to pull-off.

Don't let your H blame you for HIS inability to handle issues. Cheating is NEVER going to help anything get better, except, of course, his own selfish needs. My H can't deal with any conflict either. He won't discuss things. He won't step up to deal with anything. However, he is verbally and emotionally abusive!!!! Go figure!!!! He can't say, "I don't like it when you do this." But can tell me that, "I am a failure as a mother. I might as well go back to work b/c I have failed at my job as a mother." I don't get it!!

I am in your boat. I don't see ANY sorrow or remorse for my H's actions - our whole marriage!!! He puts nothing into it. Just takes and lives his SSL.

It took 17 years for me to feel like I did everything I could. Waaaaayyyyy too long, but at least I feel some peace at knowing that I did try. What make me say enough is the realization that I couldn't make him want something else than what he wanted. I couldn't cope with his problems for him. I couldn't make him want to do the hard work. I couldn't love us through this for the both of us while he cheated and lived a SSL. He has made his choice (whatever that is- he won't admit to any affairs, won't leave, just existing here using me), now, I need to take care of myself and my children.

I am enjoying experiencing your strength. Thank you for sharing with us (me.)

What really helped my daughter was she wrote grandma a letter explaining how she feels and how her actions have effected her. Maybe encourage your DD to do the same?

My daughter was able to see the lies after we helped her clear her own fog. But she was trying to give grandma MB advice without us knowing using FB and email(because we are pro MB in our home and talk of it constantly, so now DD wants her marriage in the future to be MB based now too because of the drastic turn around in my marriage). Grandma tried to contact DD several times after we cut off the avenues to trigger DD into depression again (it was depressing for her as she gave up the horse oppertunity etc that was promised to her from MIL) That was when DD had enough, closed her FB and email and could see that after a few weeks of NC she felt better but when grandma managed to secretly contact her she relapsed again into depression and so then she wrote the letter explaining to her how hurt she was. Grandma never replied.. and stopped communicating all toghether and ran off with her OM.

We hoped that the letter would have helped pull grandma from the fog but grandma has an electric fence personality and no one wanted to stay on HER path. (read about that in buyers renters and freeloaders!

MNG

Mr NiceGuy, I love that you are educating your daughter in MB principles and that is what I should do. I have quite plainly told my children that what their father has done is wrong. I like the idea of encouraging my daughter to write a letter about how she feels.

My WH wrote my eldest daughter a letter when she wouldn't see him and I read it. It was full of excuses for his actions and blaming me BUT he said more to my daughter about how he felt when we were married than he did to me in 20 years. One of my top needs is for honesty but looking back he never met that need.

I'm going to get Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders as it sounds interesting.

I just thought of something. I justified my anger/showing hurt towards my H's choices b/c his feelings of how he didn't like seeing anger from me were not as important to me as my feeling of hurt and anger that he kept doing pornograhy, gambling all of our money away, having affairs, secret cell phones bought by another woman, no apparent sorrow or remorese, no disclosure or transparency. I justified my anger b/c what he did was so wrong and hurt me!!! I now see that that old saying that two wrongs don't make a right applies here. I still have to maintain my character and integrity. When I lower myself like that, I stain my character. I love the saying by Maya Angelou, "When you know better, you do better!"

Right, I've done my first draft of a plan B letter so it would help a lot if I could have comments. I don't plan to send it for a few days anyway as I have to sort out my IM and my cousin is away on holiday.

I found it really difficult to put in there that I love my WH so guess my LB is at a low level. Also you all need to know that I previously wrote my WH that I wanted to rebuild our marriage and knew I was to blame for some of our issues so I'm aiming for a slightly different letter this time. I feel he won't take me seriously as i broke my plan B when dad died so I want to be strong in this letter.

This is the draft letter:


Dear XX

As you know, the past nine months have been difficult. I want you to know that it meant a lot that you came straight away when I needed you after I found out dad had died. And though going to XXX for the funeral was difficult, I felt I had your support. Our time there with X and X as a family was how I had always wanted things to be and I will remember it when I look at the photos of us all go-karting.

I believe that it is possible for us to deal with the past and rebuild a happy family. But it is impossible for us to do that unless you end your relationship with OW once and for all. Until then, I will completely avoid seeing you or talking to you for any reason and I have accepted the fact that it may be for the rest of my life.

You will still be able to see X but any arrangements or communication about the children will need to be through (IM).

I ask you to respect my decision to have total separation from you in this way. You must know the hurt I have suffered because of your relationship with OW and I cannot see or communicate with you while you are in a relationship with her. For some time now I have known this is the best choice for me but I thought communicating with you would be best for the children. I now realise that I will be a better parent to them if I do what is best for me.

If you reconsider things and are willing to permanently separate from OW and never have contact with her again, I will be willing to discuss the future with you. You will need to contact me through IM.

I loved you when I married you and will continue to love you even though I don't see or speak to you. You have been an important part of my life but its time for me to think of what is best for me and the children as I focus on creating a new life.





Ok - the bit I'm not sure about is where I say if he reconsiders and wants to repair the marriage he can contact me through IM. I've made it sound like he has forever to do it when in reality I'm gearing up for divorce and in my mind once that has happened there will not be any going back.


Finally, I've read a lot on here about how men need to act with their wayward wives (ie being a strong assertive man as women respond to this.) But how does it apply to women who have WH's - I've always worked in a professional role during our marriage and believe it or not I am pretty assertive. So what sort of attitude is recommended for women?

Jay, if there were ever to be a critical time to be radically honest with your WH, the PBL is it. If you know that when the gavel comes down, that's IT, well, phrase it how you will, but let him know.

And as for your assertiveness, you're doing just fine. You went from your "What the hell do I do?" entry to this lousy club to a draft PBL in three days!

Never having written a PBL, I'll leave the rest of the critique to better-informed colleagues.

Thanks NG, I was worried about being too assertive as WH has previously accused me of being controlling. He once told me that I have always had a hold over him (obviously not really as as he's been a serial cheater!) I think its because I was able to plan and had goals in life whereas he didn't like making decisions. And in all the times that I tried to talk about our marriage or decisions that we needed to make together, he would generally sit in silence and not ever tell me what he really thought.

Its always bothered me that when we were separating he said he was scared of me. Yet he was the one who used to get angry and my friends say I'm a really calm and laid back person so he didn't mean scared in a physical way.

Does anyone have any comments on my Plan B letter - I wont be sending it for a few days yet anyway till I've got everything in order. Im not totally happy with it yet but not sure how to improve it.

I want him to know that I think we could reconcile but that the offer is not there forever. Its already been 9 months plus 10 years of false recovery so though my dearest hope would be to have our family together, I don't want to feel I'm hanging on endlessly.

Jay,

Pasted below is an excerpt from a letter Dr Harley sent me. When you mention plans and goals in life it reminded me of this letter:


Just speculating, but people often choose mates that fit their self-concept. �In other words, a person who doesn�t think much of themselves (usually with evidence to support their conclusion), pick someone who is similarly unprepared for making a contribution in life. �When they marry someone who is capable, they feel very uncomfortable around that person, in spite of the care that they provide. �Your wife may have chosen a man who is similarly unprepared for life because she feels comfortable around him. �I recall counseling a woman who was married to a very famous surgeon. �She had an affair with a man who gave blood for a living, and moved into his 17-foot trailer. �He was someone who she could relate to, unlike her very successful husband. �In spite of his willingness to make changes in his career to accommodate her needs, she never felt comfortable around him.

Thank you HDW, that was an interesting letter. My WH has a lot of issues and he's not a great communicator.

I've tried to talk to him about how harmful a divorce will be for our children but he's always kept telling me everything will be ok. At one point he'd obviously talked to OW about his concerns about our children. I asked what she had said and he told me OW had told him it would be ok because he would still see his children! Well that turned out not to work so well as our 13 year old daughter won't see him.

I wonder if he's really thought about the future - no more family holidays, Christmas, children's birthdays etc. Perhaps I'm selfish but until our youngest two children are old enough to make their own decisions, I plan to be with them at Christmas and on their birthdays.

Today my son told me that his dad has said that anytime he wants to see WH he can just ring up and his dad will come and get him!!

On the principle that "Every asset contains its own liability!", it
might be instructive to await WH's next trip or event with POSOW,
and have DS call him mid-debauch, and ask to be picked up.

Yes I like that plan NG! I find it odd that WH has taken 3 weeks holiday from work. Originally he said he was going away for one week and then told me he wasn't going to be away. So my son spent 6 days with WH and I'm assuming that WH now doesn't have much to do. Added to which, WH is now a lot worse off financially than when he was living with me.

OW has two children aged 12 and 5, so I must admit I am hoping all is not well in affairland. WH didn't find it easy to deal with children when they were being difficult.

Jay .. you are getting some great advice. I really like your Plan B letter (maybe needs some adjusting but I have never dealt with that so I will leave the PBL editing to the vets). The sooner you end contact and give your hubby that letter and move into plan B the sooner you can stop the bleeding and begin self recovery and recovery of your children.

I would change your phone number/door locks too so he cant just show up or call your children and "come get them". He needs to arrange visitation through the IM and ONLY with your conditions. Otherwise .. things such as that will just enable him and keep him in the fog a lot longer.

Your hubby doesn't get it (and won't until you give him the plan B letter and STICK TO IT calmly and assertively). ... he obviously feels he can have his cake and eat it too.

Your doing great. Continue to read all you can here and begin teaching your DD about the principles of MB shes old enough to understand it. I printed off things like the policy of joint agreement.. and many other articles for my self and my DD read them as well as read them from the site when she was giving wayward grandma advice for her marriage.

Also .. if it has not been said .. DO NOT show your hubby the materials here yet as he is still in the fog and THAT will work against you. You can NOT educate a wayward. They must get some tough love first and unfortunately some of them never recieve the tough love like its intended purpose and dont come out of the fog.

MNG

I've read lots of stories on here now and it's horrible how many people have been betrayed by their wives and husbands. But it has helped me so much to know that I'm not the only one who wants to fight for their family and marriage.

I will be going into plan B next week so would really appreciate it if experienced plan B'ers (I'm thinking of Indie and Scotland especially as I admire both of your attitudes) and Melody have time to give their comments on my letter. Anyone else is also welcome to give comments!

I would remove the last paragraph.

I'm not good with the PBL's myself. That's why I used the one from SAA, and it was still edited by posters.

You should start your letter with a HAPPY memory, not one of a funeral.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

That thread will help you prepare for Plan B.

I wouldn't end with stating that you will continue to love him, because that will most likely not be the case. I know that it doesn't feel that way now, but it will.

When do you plan on entering Plan B? Do you need any help with preps for the other aspects of PB?