I will try to keep my post brief although my story is a typical long one.

I found out in Oct 2011 that my husband was having an affair (before I found marriage builders) and asked him to leave, wanting time to think. I now realise this was stupid but it was not his first affair and we had been in false recovery for 10 years as he hadn't told me the truth about his serial cheating.

For the sake of our 3 children I wanted to at least try to repair our marriage so I followed plan A and then B. But this was totally thrown when my dad died in January this year. And the situation led to another false recovery.

My counsellor has encouraged me to try to co-parent amicably with my husband but due to the enormous stress this year (both my parents are dead and I dont have family where I live) I cant do it.

I want to tell my husband that enough is enough and that though I would prefer to recover our marriage, the alternative is that I will go no contact for life with him. My 13 year old daughter in particular has taken the separation hard and mostly will not see her dad.

After 9 months of messing things up is it even worth me doing a plan B letter? I would like to read the letter to my husband as I want him to know I'm so serious about this.

I do know he loves his children but in his words he thought he could have it all (and still does).

Jay67, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons you are here.

Plan B should be initiated with a love letter giving him a path back. It would not be a good idea to read it to him because when you shut that door, the last thing he should remember are good feelings. If the last thing he remembers is you fighting over shutting the door, it will leave a bad taste in his mouth and YOURS. That is a needless fight can easily be avoided.

The best way to do it is to change the locks and MAIL him the letter. He should not be able to get through to you after he receives the letter. If he is able to get through, he will know you are not serious and it will ruin your credibility.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I would get that ASAP and in the meantime, go read this thread about Plan B: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

And it is real important that you expose his affair. Everyone should know all about it, your families, children, any spouses of his OW, everyone. Affairs thrive on secrecy so getting this out in the open will help your husband learn his lesson.

I want to APPLAUD you for that excellent post! It was concise and to the point. It was easy to understand your situation.

co-parenting is horrible in these situations and actually impairs your ability to be a good parent. Being "amicable" is the pipe dream of lazy divorce court bureaucrats and is not good for the parents or the children. Many courts and psychologists recommend "parallel parenting" which is linked on the Plan B thread I gave you.

Hi Melody

Thank you so much for posting, your words really help me as well as so many others. I feel that I have been weak with my husband for so many years and reading things you have posted, together with Scotland and Indie help me feel I can be tougher no matter what the outcome for our marriage.

I have read Surviving the Affair as well as other books like 'Love must be tough' and Boundaries. I've not had boundaries as I've been so busy trying to keep everyone happy and fixing things.

I did expose the affair but was somewhat disappointed in the lack of response to it (I've seen no evidence that my husband/the affair was put under any pressure due to exposure).

My eldest daughter that I supported during her unexpected pregnancy has even met the other woman which has hurt me a lot.

Jay, when you exposed did you ask them to use their influence to persuade your H to end his affair? That seems to work best, when you ask for assistance.

Also, did you expose to the OW's family and friends? They should all know she is doing a married man.

And shame, shame on your daughter! I can imagine your heart is broken. I hope you told her how disappointed you are.

I did expose by letter to the OW's parents and the few friends I could find of hers on facebook.

I regret that I did not ask my mother in law for help in saving our marriage. I have not seen her now for several months and sadly I'm not sure she would help even for the sake of her grandchildren. She was the second wife of my husbands father and I have a suspicion that it was a marriage after an affair, although I dont know this for sure.

You are right that for many reasons this year my heart has been broken. My daughter thought that things were ok between us but this week I have finally told her that as far as I am concerned they are not.

I have been drifting along for months in plan C and as many other posters have been advised it isn't a good plan for anyone. I will take action now and thanks again.

Jay, you will get lots of help here. I would start working on your plan, writing your letter, etc. Post here and we will help you formulate your plan and give you feedback on your letter. Do you have the book, Surviving an Affair? If not, I can post the letter.

Yes I do have the book and will read it again and start drafting a letter.

I think my husband could be described as a 'cake eater'. He doesn't love me but wants my help when it suits him - for instance he wants to still see our 13 year old daughter but she doesn't want to see him. I admire the principled way in which she had demonstrated her anger with his behaviour. However he wants the two of us to sit down and talk to her because he thinks this will help him see her and he's also worried about her school work which has suffered.

I know I am not responsible for the affairs but I do know that I contributed to the problems in our marriage - love busters and not meeting his emotional needs. I did try but was too focused on our children.

Should I plan A my husband again for a week or two so that he has good memories before I plan B or should I just go straight to plan B?

Jay, I don't give this much hope to be honest, but there is always hope. I would be as pleasant as possible while you get your Plan B prepared. And I would change up the Plan B letter somewhat because I don't believe you did anything to harm the marriage since he is a serial cheater. He is a serial cheater because cheating is a way of life for him. So, if you want to, I would put in the conditions that he agree to make radical changes in his lifestyle.

Do you have a good candidate for an intermediary? And I would also consider filing for divorce so you are legally protected. You don't have to delay Plan B but make sure your finances are in order before you shut that door.

It is also a good idea to change the locks on your house. When he sees you are serious about no contact, he may try to barge in. He won't like losing control of you.

Truthfully, I dont hold out much hope either. But I will have offered him the possibility of recovery so I can look at myself in the mirror and know I did the best I could for our children.

I see the value of plan B for personal recovery and that is what I want too as this whole situation has affected my ability to be a good parent.

I need some peace in my life away from his dramas. I will be ok whichever way it goes.

I know this is a stupid question but if he has been a serial cheater with me is it likely he will be with his OW and future partners?

OH YES! That is not a stupid question at all.

That isn't a stupid question. Yes, he will be unable to sustain a healthy relationship with women. He obviously doesn't know how to do that.

Jay, listen to this radio clip of Dr Harley talking about affair marriages: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2233

In addition here are some more.

Affairage radio clips
Affairages: A Must Read Dr. Harley Posts Himself

Also instead of co-parenting (if this is the route you have to take) you should do parallel parenting.

Parallel Parenting

Thanks, Brainhurts!

As always, you're welcome.

I would ask for some more information, if you don't mind.

- You discovered (hard) evidence of the A in October 2011. You asked WH to leave; he did.

- You performed a weak exposure (when?) with little positive response.

- In July 2012 you have decided to bring it all to an end.

Kind of a big gap there, my friend.

What efforts have you performed to end the affair? Is WH still out of the family home? If so, where? With OW? Does he return at all - get his mail, whatever?

Are you independently employed? What became of DD17's pregnancy?

Are you and WH cooperating financially? Familially? Are you able to stay informed of his activities?

And the killer - What makes you decide on decisive action in July that was not in effect in June, or May?

Thanks all, I will listen to the clips later. I just typed out a long reply to NeverGuessed and just lost it so this reply will be brief and to the point!!!

I work and together with some savings that we have, I've supported our children since WH left. Im in the UK so got the Child Support Agency to tell us how much WH has to pay for our children - I've had a letter finally this week about that. Financially WH is going to struggle big time.

OW lives 50 miles away but WH rents a flat near where we live (so he gets to visit her and has best of both worlds). OW married and divorced twice and was dating prior to divorce, then took up with WH knowing he was married with 3 children.

WH is out of our family home still but comes to pick up our 8 year old son (13 year old daughter will not see him normally). He does speak to me on the phone or text/email me - over the past month I've only talked to him about issues concerned with the children.

My eldest daughter and her partner were living with me but our house was overcrowded. She had a daughter in March and moved out with her partner two months ago.

I don't know much of what WH is doing but don't think he's going to where OW lives as much as he was. OW has two children aged 12 and 5 and WH told me once that he found it hard to be with her kids as he misses his own so much.

I know there is a lot of time between Oct 2011 and that my exposure wasn't as good as it would have been had I known the MB way then. I didn't initially know anything about OW. I had no hard proof of the affair in Oct 2011, just a gut instinct that I challenged my WH about. Turns out we had been in a 10 year false recovery from previous affairs he hadnt told the truth about (how I wish I found MB then).

You may wonder why I even want to work on this wreckage of a marriage. Its because I love my children and have seen what divorce does to them, I believe in the vows I took before God, I believe Dr Harley that if you follow the narrow path of recovery romantic love can be restored. I know it would be extremely difficult in our circumstances but our children are worth it.

I know I haven't taken the right actions in the last months but the loss of my dad in January was so tough for me as I live 80 miles from my home town and he was my only close relative as well as being my rock. I miss him so much. Add to this my 17 year old daughter having an unplanned baby in March as well as the shock of my husbands lies and you can get some idea of my state of mind. I've been seeing a counsellor since January as I know I was a 'fixer' in life, always willing to take my share of the blame and more for problems. It was a co-dependent marriage but hard as it is to belive, I still have some love remaining for my WH. We've been through a lot over our 23 years together and I know he loves our children too.

So Jay what is your plan now?

Does your WH want to come back to the Marriage and will end all contact for life with OW?

There are a couple of questions I didn't answer properly.

I tried to end the affair with exposure, plan A and plan B. I eventually broke plan B because my children seemed to be suffering and on the guidance of my counsellor (which I now realise was a mistake). I'm not seeing the counsellor anymore. It took quite a bit of research to find out about OW but I traced her address and her parents and exposed affair to her parents in March. There was absolutely no response to this (not even anger from WH) so don't know if it had any effect.

What makes me want to take decisive action now is the fact that i realise my emotional health has suffered greatly and I cant take any more. Children's behaviour and work at school has all gone downhill and is getting worse over the months not better.

Neither WH nor I have filed for divorce, we have just been living in limbo. I now see that for my own sanity I have to go no contact for life with him if he still does not want to recover our marriage. He is very indecisive in life generally anyway but has been much worse since he left.

Thats the key question Brain Hurts, I don't know what he wants or is willing to do. In January after my dad died he said he wanted to make the marriage work but could not/would not break it off with OW.

I want to give him one final chance before I go to plan B for life and divorce (and it has been so hard for me to get to the point of this decision). But was not sure whether to try to talk to him to tell him this or do a plan B letter. MelodyLane's guidance is to get ready for plan B and then do letter so that is the route I will take.

Other problem is that of intermediary - last time it was my sister but it was tough on her and don't think I can ask again. I will have to think of who I can ask that will implement things properly.

I agree with Mel and I would prepare for Plan B. The reason your WH is Indecisive is because he has been allowed to cake eat for the past 8+ months and so I agree that you need to protect yourself.

I'm surprised your health has lasted this long. Dr. Harley only advises BW to be in Plan A for 3 weeks if the affair hasn't ended because of the effects on the BW's health.

So you have this How To Plan B Properly

You are so right I have let him be indecisive. Before he died my dad said to me that I've spent my life worrying so much about making other people happy that I have forgotten about myself.

My mum had Bipolar which developed after I was born and I spent a lot of my life looking after her. Not making excuses but its how I can see so clearly that my background caused me to accept WH's behaviour.

I am surviving but think emotionally I am at rock bottom now. It will take me at least a few days to get ready for plan B but I can see what others have said now about it being a place of safety where you can heal. I actually look forward to that.

Will post again when I've got things in order and drafted my letter. I started reading Surviving an Affair properly last night. Bought it back in January when I thought WH was serious about coming home and never finished reading it with all that was happening.

We are here for you, friend.

We can help with your preparations also. Post your letter. In that link there are Plan B letter samples.

Let us know what you need.

We have many prime example Plan Ber posters here.

Thank you BrainHurts that means a lot. I will post a draft letter as soon as I can.

Have listened to the suggested clips and really feel like I have learned such a lot from this site (and I am someone who has read a ton of books on marriage, relationships, communication etc.)

Has this Affair been exposed to everyone including your children?

Yes HDW, I exposed to our children, my mother in law, friends, my family, OW's parents and friends. The problem was that I didn't have info on OW back in October so the exposure wasnt all in one go.

At first none of our children wanted to meet the OW. Now my WH has introduced our 8 year old son to OW and her two sons. A couple of weeks ago I found out my 17 year old daughter met the OW.

My 13 year old doesn't want to meet OW and will rarely agree to see her dad (she told me he will die alone). My WH thinks he can change her mind and that it will all be ok. Seriously I don't think he has any idea of the damage he has caused or how it will affect our children's lives. But I feel its not a good idea for me to try to explain it because he won't listen to me and I might slip into more love buster type behaviour.

I had a somewhat difficult childhood so I feel passionately that if you choose to have children you should give it everything you have got in you to provide a happy and stable family life for them.

I have let my WH be cake eat for a year. He was living a double life...telling me he wanted to try to come back and the OW he wanted to marry her. All hurts. Try to protect yourself now, I wnet back into a Plan A mode with hope he would return. I was so wrong. I am so hurt again. I did it for my children too.

I'm so sorry Mason. Truly I know just how much it hurts.

I think my WH would be exactly the same but there is no way I will allow him back into my life now UNTIL he meets my requirements. And if he never does that will be his loss.

Have you filed for divorce?

I know, and Plan B is hard the second time around too. I thought I would be stronger, but I feel weak today. Just trying to protect myself. I wish I could escape this nightmare.

The problem was that I didn't have info on OW back in October so the exposure wasnt all in one go.

Let this go, now, unless the new info is of such damage that those who yawned "Ho-hum" before would now sputter, "How DARE he?"

I'll chip in with my probably superfluous recommendation to get the Plan B in line and ready to implement. You are fortunate in that your children are not infants, which adds complications to "keeping the walls up". You and he have no shared custody agreement of any type in place, I take it. That is going to have to be established, formally, through the offices of that family support agency you referenced, I would assume.

Let me brace you with the following thought: TWO people are the only ones necessary to convince of the absolute integrity and inviolability of the Plan B barriers and structure. WH of course is one, but he is the SECOND one. YOU would be the first. A weak Plan B, collapsing on your end at the first accepted phone call, returned email, etc, would be critically damaging to convincing him of the Plan's inevitability.

Set your heart as being secondary to your mind as relates to WH, okay, as you are making your arrangements.

HDW - no neither of us have filed for divorce yet. At one point WH said he would "look into a divorce once things had settled down with the children".

Neverguessed - you have correctly pointed out that I have led with my heart and not my mind. I have to say that I really appreciate your to the point posts and I get what you are saying about me and Plan B.

My problem at the moment is finding a reliable intermediary. As I mentioned, last time it was my sister which WH did not like at all and I think my sister was too emotional about the situation.

Neverguessed, we have an arrangement for our 8 year old son to see his father on Tuesday evenings overnight and every other weekend. This was just agreed between the two of us as the Child Support Agency in the UK only deals with financial support with children. Obviously if my WH does decide to move 50 miles away to be with the OW then this arrangement would have to vary. I don't know whether to say that the Tuesday evenings should stop or to leave things as they are at the moment. My son obviously does want to see his dad but told me it is confusing for him.

Friends and family who know more about the ways in which WH have manipulated me say that I should cease the current arrangement for my son to force my WH to take the custody issue to court. I think this would hurt my son. Any thoughts on this please?

I think you should file for divorce and go into plan B

Jay, its not good for your son to be exposed to your husbands affair. It is just teaching him that wrong is right and causing him great moral confusion. I would make it a condition of visitation that your child not be exposed to his filthy affair. He can come and pick your son up at your home [without coming in] and take him out for dinner, etc.

I would file for divorce and get this put in your custody agreement, that he not be allowed to expose your son to his affair. Unfortunately, your husband is a bad influence on your son right now so I would make sure he is as protected as he can be.

Thank you all and yes I will be filing for divorce along with my Plan B and will alter the arrangements for my son. Its so nice that other people support what I was thinking because I've been so disappointed at how people generally in the UK seem to just accept adultery.

Finances etc are ok for me and today I've been clearing my house of things that belong to WH or may remind me of him. I've kept my wedding dress for nearly 20 years but have talked to my daughters and we all agree I should get rid of it. I think its a good sign that I feel able to do this - I feel relieved somehow.

The main thing I have to do now along with the plan B letter is to find an intermediary. My choices are a bit limited really but are as follows:

* My cousin (but she is close to me and is disgusted with WH so even if he did want to recover our marriage I'm not sure she would tell me).

* My daughters partner (but he is only 19 and it might put him in a stressful position as my eldest daughter and he see my WH and have met OW).

* Either my WH's brother or best friend (I trust both of them actually but I would feel awkward in asking them to do it as I haven't seen either of them for quite a few months).

* My neighbour who has known WH and me for 7 years (but she is an older lady and has lots of issues with her own children/grandchildren).

I'm struggling with this one so would welcome comments from people who know more than I do.

Thanks again to all of the people who've replied to my posts - its been exactly what I needed.

Interesting that you brought up your wedding dress. I started thinking about what to do with mine!!!

Maybe someone from your Church could be an IM. You just need someone to handle the communication and filter out anything you don't need to know or hear.

Did you H just leave when you asked him to? Mine won't. This puts me into having to file. Ugggggg!

I am glad you are standing up for yourself. It is nice to read about how you are handling it.

Neverguessed - I have to say that I really appreciate your to the point posts and I get what you are saying

Thanx. I'm usually good for about five posts, and then the recipient decides I'm overbearing and judgmental! (I can hear the chorus of Texans all saying, "It doesn't take five posts!")

You've gotten some great feedback here about Plan B, some from experienced implementers. Rely on their support. Half the battle is winning yourself over. The strict practice of Plan B itself will then force WH to conform.

When choosing your IM, it shouldn't be a family member, and definitely NOT one of WSs family members, no matter how close you are to him/her. Next, it would be best to have someone whom is the same gender as the BS.

The better the IM, the more effective the Plan b will be in keeping the BS protected.

With those choices that you presented, I would use the neighbour. Only, she would need to learn about how to filter. I would offer my services to help in the beginning and guide any IM you choose.

Welcome to MB. Sorry you are here in these circumstances. MB is the best place to begin to work towards recovery.

One thing i wanted to mention was that in my story (about the last 10 pages) MY MIL dragged my dd14 through my MIL's affair. My daughter got caught up in the drama and didnt tell us and because of that she got quite the attitude. It was not until we snooped on DD to find out why she was not being herself to discover that grandma (MIL) was building her army agasint her hubby to leave for her OM. Trying o persuade my DD to move in with her (telling her she can have her own horse .. etc. Once I found out about it, i blew it all out of the water with the MB techniques. It didnt pan out well for MIL and FIL(they are divorcing) but i cut them out of my DD's life for a plan B of our own to eliminate our DD"s stress .. she was slipping in school like your DD is experiencing and we told DD the truth and exposed grandma to entire family .. (even FIL was in the dark about it as we got the info kinda sneaky like.. more like tricked her for the affair info lol) Since going into plan B with MIL and FIL .. DD14 has become ALOT better. She sees and understands the truth now and has brought her school work back up to straight a"s again.

Plan B will bring some peace to your home AND leave a narrow path for your hubby to make his way back (if thats what you choose)

MNG

Jay, I vote for your cousin. As long as she can remain neutral in her DEALINGS with your husband and agree to act as a spam filter, she will be fine. She has to agree not to cuss him out when she feels like it though. All she is would be a SPAM filter, passing on PERTINENT information in her own words.

She would not pass on any rantings and ravings from your spouse. It is the easiest job in the world if you do it right. If she wants to do it, I would be glad to help her. Usually I help an IM once or twice and then they catch on quickly.

I would be glad to provide my email address if your IM wants some help.

Thank you Melody and Scotland. I will talk to both my neighbour and my cousin and see if either of them are willing to help me.

I must say that I feel so much better today because I have a plan and am taking action. Now I am going to start drafting my plan B letter and when I go to plan B it is going to be pitch black (and you can all hold me accountable on that).

MrNiceGuy it's interesting what happened with your 14 year old. I think one of the reasons my 13 year old has a terrible attitude at the moment is she knows what her dad is doing is wrong so the only way she can show this is by not seeing him and acting out with me. Not only has she lost her dad and her grandad but she doesn't see WH's mother either. So she really has lost a large chunk of her family.


Littlebit3 - yes my WH did leave when I asked him to. I had no evidence of an affair but he went out one night (first evening out in a long time) and got back really late. He came to bed and then he woke me up because he'd gone out for a drive (4am). I sat up and waited for him to come home but he just got back into bed. So I called him downstairs and shouted that I wanted to know who he'd been seeing. He admitted he'd been seeing someone so I told him to pack and go. It was a Facebook affair with someone that went to the same school as him and it seems they'd been in touch via Facebook for a few months, then met up occasionally for two months by the time I found out. Later my eldest daughter told me she knew her dad had been sending a lot of texts in the late evening when I was in bed.

I didn't handle things as I would have done if I had known about MB then but nothing I can do about that now. My WH told me about a month after he left that he was scared of me!! He can't take anyone being angry with him.

In my heart I don't think my WH is willing to do the hard work needed to change things but as I said before I want to know I did everything I could.

Wow, I am sooooo sorry that you had to go through this. He is blaming you for his inability to deal with your anger. Even though it is common sense to anyone that someone would get hurt/mad/angry/resentful for being cheated on, lied to, deceived, etc... It is not right, but understandable. I have learned from MB that showing my anger is a no-no. I didn't show my anger for sooo long. I think it is normal to feel anger at our H's for cheating, especially the repeated choices to continue doing what they do. What are you supposed to do with your feelings when they repeatedly lie, cheat, deceive, abuse and won't listen to you telling them that it hurts you? But, anyway, I now know that we are not supposed to act on that anger. We are supposed to be mature and respectful in dealing with them. I haven't been able to achieve that in the face of his continued deceipt and SSL as well as I would like to have.

That is why I need to get into Plan B. He won't leave, so I have to get him out by filing. That just takes a while to pull-off.

Don't let your H blame you for HIS inability to handle issues. Cheating is NEVER going to help anything get better, except, of course, his own selfish needs. My H can't deal with any conflict either. He won't discuss things. He won't step up to deal with anything. However, he is verbally and emotionally abusive!!!! Go figure!!!! He can't say, "I don't like it when you do this." But can tell me that, "I am a failure as a mother. I might as well go back to work b/c I have failed at my job as a mother." I don't get it!!

I am in your boat. I don't see ANY sorrow or remorse for my H's actions - our whole marriage!!! He puts nothing into it. Just takes and lives his SSL.

It took 17 years for me to feel like I did everything I could. Waaaaayyyyy too long, but at least I feel some peace at knowing that I did try. What make me say enough is the realization that I couldn't make him want something else than what he wanted. I couldn't cope with his problems for him. I couldn't make him want to do the hard work. I couldn't love us through this for the both of us while he cheated and lived a SSL. He has made his choice (whatever that is- he won't admit to any affairs, won't leave, just existing here using me), now, I need to take care of myself and my children.

I am enjoying experiencing your strength. Thank you for sharing with us (me.)

What really helped my daughter was she wrote grandma a letter explaining how she feels and how her actions have effected her. Maybe encourage your DD to do the same?

My daughter was able to see the lies after we helped her clear her own fog. But she was trying to give grandma MB advice without us knowing using FB and email(because we are pro MB in our home and talk of it constantly, so now DD wants her marriage in the future to be MB based now too because of the drastic turn around in my marriage). Grandma tried to contact DD several times after we cut off the avenues to trigger DD into depression again (it was depressing for her as she gave up the horse oppertunity etc that was promised to her from MIL) That was when DD had enough, closed her FB and email and could see that after a few weeks of NC she felt better but when grandma managed to secretly contact her she relapsed again into depression and so then she wrote the letter explaining to her how hurt she was. Grandma never replied.. and stopped communicating all toghether and ran off with her OM.

We hoped that the letter would have helped pull grandma from the fog but grandma has an electric fence personality and no one wanted to stay on HER path. (read about that in buyers renters and freeloaders!

MNG

Mr NiceGuy, I love that you are educating your daughter in MB principles and that is what I should do. I have quite plainly told my children that what their father has done is wrong. I like the idea of encouraging my daughter to write a letter about how she feels.

My WH wrote my eldest daughter a letter when she wouldn't see him and I read it. It was full of excuses for his actions and blaming me BUT he said more to my daughter about how he felt when we were married than he did to me in 20 years. One of my top needs is for honesty but looking back he never met that need.

I'm going to get Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders as it sounds interesting.

I just thought of something. I justified my anger/showing hurt towards my H's choices b/c his feelings of how he didn't like seeing anger from me were not as important to me as my feeling of hurt and anger that he kept doing pornograhy, gambling all of our money away, having affairs, secret cell phones bought by another woman, no apparent sorrow or remorese, no disclosure or transparency. I justified my anger b/c what he did was so wrong and hurt me!!! I now see that that old saying that two wrongs don't make a right applies here. I still have to maintain my character and integrity. When I lower myself like that, I stain my character. I love the saying by Maya Angelou, "When you know better, you do better!"

Right, I've done my first draft of a plan B letter so it would help a lot if I could have comments. I don't plan to send it for a few days anyway as I have to sort out my IM and my cousin is away on holiday.

I found it really difficult to put in there that I love my WH so guess my LB is at a low level. Also you all need to know that I previously wrote my WH that I wanted to rebuild our marriage and knew I was to blame for some of our issues so I'm aiming for a slightly different letter this time. I feel he won't take me seriously as i broke my plan B when dad died so I want to be strong in this letter.

This is the draft letter:


Dear XX

As you know, the past nine months have been difficult. I want you to know that it meant a lot that you came straight away when I needed you after I found out dad had died. And though going to XXX for the funeral was difficult, I felt I had your support. Our time there with X and X as a family was how I had always wanted things to be and I will remember it when I look at the photos of us all go-karting.

I believe that it is possible for us to deal with the past and rebuild a happy family. But it is impossible for us to do that unless you end your relationship with OW once and for all. Until then, I will completely avoid seeing you or talking to you for any reason and I have accepted the fact that it may be for the rest of my life.

You will still be able to see X but any arrangements or communication about the children will need to be through (IM).

I ask you to respect my decision to have total separation from you in this way. You must know the hurt I have suffered because of your relationship with OW and I cannot see or communicate with you while you are in a relationship with her. For some time now I have known this is the best choice for me but I thought communicating with you would be best for the children. I now realise that I will be a better parent to them if I do what is best for me.

If you reconsider things and are willing to permanently separate from OW and never have contact with her again, I will be willing to discuss the future with you. You will need to contact me through IM.

I loved you when I married you and will continue to love you even though I don't see or speak to you. You have been an important part of my life but its time for me to think of what is best for me and the children as I focus on creating a new life.





Ok - the bit I'm not sure about is where I say if he reconsiders and wants to repair the marriage he can contact me through IM. I've made it sound like he has forever to do it when in reality I'm gearing up for divorce and in my mind once that has happened there will not be any going back.


Finally, I've read a lot on here about how men need to act with their wayward wives (ie being a strong assertive man as women respond to this.) But how does it apply to women who have WH's - I've always worked in a professional role during our marriage and believe it or not I am pretty assertive. So what sort of attitude is recommended for women?

Jay, if there were ever to be a critical time to be radically honest with your WH, the PBL is it. If you know that when the gavel comes down, that's IT, well, phrase it how you will, but let him know.

And as for your assertiveness, you're doing just fine. You went from your "What the hell do I do?" entry to this lousy club to a draft PBL in three days!

Never having written a PBL, I'll leave the rest of the critique to better-informed colleagues.

Thanks NG, I was worried about being too assertive as WH has previously accused me of being controlling. He once told me that I have always had a hold over him (obviously not really as as he's been a serial cheater!) I think its because I was able to plan and had goals in life whereas he didn't like making decisions. And in all the times that I tried to talk about our marriage or decisions that we needed to make together, he would generally sit in silence and not ever tell me what he really thought.

Its always bothered me that when we were separating he said he was scared of me. Yet he was the one who used to get angry and my friends say I'm a really calm and laid back person so he didn't mean scared in a physical way.

Does anyone have any comments on my Plan B letter - I wont be sending it for a few days yet anyway till I've got everything in order. Im not totally happy with it yet but not sure how to improve it.

I want him to know that I think we could reconcile but that the offer is not there forever. Its already been 9 months plus 10 years of false recovery so though my dearest hope would be to have our family together, I don't want to feel I'm hanging on endlessly.

Jay,

Pasted below is an excerpt from a letter Dr Harley sent me. When you mention plans and goals in life it reminded me of this letter:


Just speculating, but people often choose mates that fit their self-concept. �In other words, a person who doesn�t think much of themselves (usually with evidence to support their conclusion), pick someone who is similarly unprepared for making a contribution in life. �When they marry someone who is capable, they feel very uncomfortable around that person, in spite of the care that they provide. �Your wife may have chosen a man who is similarly unprepared for life because she feels comfortable around him. �I recall counseling a woman who was married to a very famous surgeon. �She had an affair with a man who gave blood for a living, and moved into his 17-foot trailer. �He was someone who she could relate to, unlike her very successful husband. �In spite of his willingness to make changes in his career to accommodate her needs, she never felt comfortable around him.

Thank you HDW, that was an interesting letter. My WH has a lot of issues and he's not a great communicator.

I've tried to talk to him about how harmful a divorce will be for our children but he's always kept telling me everything will be ok. At one point he'd obviously talked to OW about his concerns about our children. I asked what she had said and he told me OW had told him it would be ok because he would still see his children! Well that turned out not to work so well as our 13 year old daughter won't see him.

I wonder if he's really thought about the future - no more family holidays, Christmas, children's birthdays etc. Perhaps I'm selfish but until our youngest two children are old enough to make their own decisions, I plan to be with them at Christmas and on their birthdays.

Today my son told me that his dad has said that anytime he wants to see WH he can just ring up and his dad will come and get him!!

On the principle that "Every asset contains its own liability!", it
might be instructive to await WH's next trip or event with POSOW,
and have DS call him mid-debauch, and ask to be picked up.

Yes I like that plan NG! I find it odd that WH has taken 3 weeks holiday from work. Originally he said he was going away for one week and then told me he wasn't going to be away. So my son spent 6 days with WH and I'm assuming that WH now doesn't have much to do. Added to which, WH is now a lot worse off financially than when he was living with me.

OW has two children aged 12 and 5, so I must admit I am hoping all is not well in affairland. WH didn't find it easy to deal with children when they were being difficult.

Jay .. you are getting some great advice. I really like your Plan B letter (maybe needs some adjusting but I have never dealt with that so I will leave the PBL editing to the vets). The sooner you end contact and give your hubby that letter and move into plan B the sooner you can stop the bleeding and begin self recovery and recovery of your children.

I would change your phone number/door locks too so he cant just show up or call your children and "come get them". He needs to arrange visitation through the IM and ONLY with your conditions. Otherwise .. things such as that will just enable him and keep him in the fog a lot longer.

Your hubby doesn't get it (and won't until you give him the plan B letter and STICK TO IT calmly and assertively). ... he obviously feels he can have his cake and eat it too.

Your doing great. Continue to read all you can here and begin teaching your DD about the principles of MB shes old enough to understand it. I printed off things like the policy of joint agreement.. and many other articles for my self and my DD read them as well as read them from the site when she was giving wayward grandma advice for her marriage.

Also .. if it has not been said .. DO NOT show your hubby the materials here yet as he is still in the fog and THAT will work against you. You can NOT educate a wayward. They must get some tough love first and unfortunately some of them never recieve the tough love like its intended purpose and dont come out of the fog.

MNG

I've read lots of stories on here now and it's horrible how many people have been betrayed by their wives and husbands. But it has helped me so much to know that I'm not the only one who wants to fight for their family and marriage.

I will be going into plan B next week so would really appreciate it if experienced plan B'ers (I'm thinking of Indie and Scotland especially as I admire both of your attitudes) and Melody have time to give their comments on my letter. Anyone else is also welcome to give comments!

I would remove the last paragraph.

I'm not good with the PBL's myself. That's why I used the one from SAA, and it was still edited by posters.

You should start your letter with a HAPPY memory, not one of a funeral.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

That thread will help you prepare for Plan B.

I wouldn't end with stating that you will continue to love him, because that will most likely not be the case. I know that it doesn't feel that way now, but it will.

When do you plan on entering Plan B? Do you need any help with preps for the other aspects of PB?

Dear XX

As you know, the past nine months have been difficult. I want you to know that it meant a lot that you came straight away when I needed you after I found out dad had died. And though going to XXX for the funeral was difficult, I felt I had your support. Our time there with X and X as a family was how I had always wanted things to be and I will remember it when I look at the photos of us all go-karting.

believe that It is possible for us to deal with the past and rebuild a happy family. But it is impossible for us to do that unless you end your relationship with OW once and for all. Until then, I will completely avoid seeing you or talking to you for any reason and I have accepted the fact that it may be for the rest of my life.

You will still be able to see X but any arrangements or communication about the children will need to be through (IM).

I ask you to respect my decision to have total separation from you in this way. You must know the hurt I have suffered because of your relationship with OW and I cannot see or communicate with you while you are in a relationship with her. For some time now I have known this is the best choice for me but I thought communicating with you would be best for the children. I now realise that I will be a better parent to them if I do what is best for me.

If you reconsider things and When you are willing to permanently separate from OW and never have contact with her again, I will be willing to discuss the future with you. You will need to contact me through IM.

I loved you when I married you and will continue to love you even though I don't see or speak to you. You have been an important part of my life but its time for me to think of what is best for me and the children as I focus on creating a full and good new life.

You had so many negatives in the letter and it is meant to be powerfully loving and yet firmly setting your boundaries. I would add a new first paragraph that states that you love him and know you created an environment that allowed for an affair but are now aware that you must step up your game as a partner to create a wonderful marriage. The last paragraph could be a recollection of a simple but romantic event in the early part of your relationship. Something beautiful before you sign off the letter.

I am not going to be able to see how you do on any revisions since I am heading off camping for four days but other MBers can give you input on your new additions to the letter. When during the next week are you planning on going to plan B? Do you have all your ducks in a row for it?

Thanks for your comments on my letter. My laptop has caused me to lose a really long post that i wrote in response so this will be shorter!

I'm feeling down today - partly because of WH. He's avoided dealing with issues around our 13 year old daughter but yesterday text me to ask when he could pick up our 8 year old son on Sunday. It's not his weekend but because WH is on holiday he assumes the access arrangements will be changed to suit him. I know my son would want to go to see WH but I don't think its in son's best interests. (When my son comes back from his dads his asthma and exzema seem to have got worse and it takes me several days to get him back to normal.)

I've read all the comments on my letter and understand what you've said about negativity. The bit about the funeral I put in because my dad died abroad so we went away for almost a week and it was the only time I've ever felt supported by WH. We also had some family time which was the best it had been for a long time and I wanted him to remember that. But i'll take it out and revise it.

I feel a bit stupid to change it to "when you leave OW" rather than if because I don't think he will leave her. The affair was exposed, he's seen that it's affected his children and he hasn't come back. What will make him want to come back now as he doesn't love me?

I did have the Plan B letter from Surviving an Affair in front of me when i wrote my letter but i adapted it because I already wrote to WH months ago taking my responsibility for the mess our marriage was in and also when we had two sessions at marriage counselling. MelodyLane suggested I not put in the part about creating an environment for an affair because WH is a serial cheater. I don't even know how many times he has cheated - until this recent affair I knew of two affairs that I found out about at the same time. He had cheated on me when I was pregnant with our second child but i didn't find out until 2 years later.

I really struggled to think of happy, romantic events in our marriage which made me wonder why am I even wanting to try to reconcile. The ONLY reason is because we have 3 children. I think that is the best reason in the world but can it work when I have lost respect for WH and his character? Truthfully I'm not sure anymore that I know what love is or whether it is possible for me to love WH again. I know I did once and that he loved me. But if he comes back for the children i'll always know that I was second choice.

I'm sorry I know I'm being negative and rambling but I have always been a positive and optimistic person and generally confident. Yet now I'm struggling to make decisions.

As far as preparing for plan B - locks are already changed on my house so he can't get in, I'm talking to possible IM's this weekend and I've taken action on things like blocking his email. Our finances are already separated except that I'm waiting for him to start paying his child maintenance.

I like "when" as opposed to "if" because it presents it to your WH has a given. "If" makes it sound like an option. You don't want to give the impression that you think staying with OW is a viable option.

Point taken maritalbliss. I don't want WH to think staying with OW is a viable option!

He's text again about having our son but I've told him we will be sticking with our usual access arrangements. Made me realise how often I've just gone along with what he's said even when he's unreasonable.

I expect he will try to break my Plan B when I go into it. I will need to change our home phone number. What do I do about children's mobile phones. I want him to be able to contact them but when he's panicking he does silly things - like recently texting our son that he wants son to live with him. (Luckily I got to the text before my son did). But I don't want ANY contact, even looking at text messages in Plan B so how do I handle that? Issues like this are why I'm taking a few days before going to Plan B - I want to have everything in order so there is no way WH can get to me.

When you deal with a serial cheater or sex addict it's similar to dealin with an alcoholic.
You mention that he upset you about his responsibilities to the kids.

I encourage you to visit an AlAnon meeting. They can teach you how not to depend on your husband.

Really you need to look at yourself and ask why you even want a serial cheater with you.

HDW

As you can imagine, WH is quite manipulative - I've been in counselling for the last 7 months and its taken that for me to wake up and see things as they really are.

I have looked at myself believe me and the ONLY reason I have been speaking to him is because counselor convinced me to try and co-parent. Melody posted some very sensible comments and I now see that co-parenting is impossible.

I just feel so sad for our children but am asking myself why would I even want a serial cheater with me as I do deserve so much more.

Has anyone on here ever recovered with a serial cheater?

Listen to this radio clip on serial cheaters.
Radio Clip on Serial Cheaters