And, as you implement each step, do not lovebust.
Be clear, concise, express that you will not participate in his life while he is continuing this path.

Deb --

You are ending your "crippled" marriage which I heartily applaud.

Remain in your position of strength - and you may get a new marriage. Your husband very well might change his behaviors.

The Universe is interceding....

On 8/02 I posted:


Right after I posted that, my husband called. He told me, "Since you're checking up on me, I think it's okay for me to check up on you."

I didn't know if my husband was just in tune with my thoughts, like he almost always is (i.e., I will think something and a moment later he is saying the same thing out loud) or if he found this thread and was snooping. Regardless, I did stop posting for several days because I didn't know for sure.

Shortly after I posted on this board that I had scheduled the locksmith to come tomorrow morning to change the locks, my husband came racing home and asked me if I was changing the locks. I demanded to know his source of information! The locksmith was at his place of business changing the tumbler in the door to the store at the same time I posted, and the locksmith asked my husband if he was related to ME because he was scheduled to change the locks tomorrow morning.

I did not believe my husband, but he showed me the receipt from the locksmith and the four new keys that were made for the front door. Then I asked him WHY he was changing the locks . . . was he doing it to keep me from entering his place of business? No, No, No, he stated. He decided to change the lock because it was sticking really bad--and I know that is true. He immediately gave me a key and stated he had four made--one for him, one for me, one for his mom, and one for his dad.

I called the locksmith to chastise him for telling my husband that I was changing the locks on the door. After all, he did not know if my husband was violent or whether he was placing me in danger. And the locksmith was defiant--claiming that unless I had a restraining order keeping my husband out of the house, he would refuse to change my locks for me because it would be a "conflict of interest." GARBAGE!

The universe is working against me, in that regard, or either for me. . . I don't know. But this really hit my husband hard. He agreed with me that he did not want to continue in our crippled marriage either, but he does want more than anything to build a new and better marriage with me.

Is it too late for us? We agreed that we would have one more discussion this evening and try to formulate a plan to build a new and better marriage. He agreed, if we could not do this, he would move out without any fight whatsoever--it will not be necessary for me to get a restraining order or anything like that. My husband apologized for alienating my family and promised to apologize to my sister for the unacceptable text.

I think we need professional help. If my husband agrees to get counseling from the MB counseling center, should I allow him to stay?

This is along lines of having a plan.
In plan b there are conditions for return.

Again, you are flopping all over the place...That is a perfectly normal place for you to be, but you need to stop showing this side to your WS.

Sounds like you need to think of what your conditions are.
A concrete plan that will satisfy you and end the confusion of your conditions.
There is a lot posted on this site from many BS who have come up with and edited lists.

I am glad he is taking you serioiusly, but you have to make sure the changes are long term and sincere.

Have you been posted the plan B link?

I think I posted this to you before.
How to Plan B Properly

Well, my thoughts are that he's going to agree to everything and then slack off once you back off with the separation talk. I doubt that he's sincere in rebuilding your marriage, but would wager that he is sincere in his desire to keep you and the OW in his life.

Keep that bar pretty high, Deb. If you give an inch now, he'll take a mile and it's pretty common for a wayward to be all in support of fixing things only to slide back into old habits once you start getting comfortable again.

The missing money and your financing his OW would be at the top of the list of discussion. If/when he starts blaming you or deflecting and refusing to "own" where he is, I'd just tell him to leave and walk him to the door. You've probably seen the false sincerity before and know what to look for.

I would still consult an attorney to see what they recommend to protect yourself financially.

Assume that he is reading your thread and has a keylogger on your computer.

Lastly, unless the "Wrinkled" part of your screen name is done tongue-in-cheek, I'd suggest deleting it as some may think that it reflects on your self-image.

What NW said.
Many WS will say anything to keep the facade up. There has been years of gaslighting and deciet going on, here.

You need to have your boundaries and be willing to enforce your choices. WS needs to understand your intentions.

I've read the materials on Plan B.

I don't want to flop. I am serious when I told him that our crippled marriage is over. I won't live in that marriage ever again. I won't live with a husband who has no boundaries and angry outbursts. I think it would be beneficial for him to hear the same things from a marriage coach that I have been hearing from all of you.

There you go! Glad to hear that you're finished accepting your old marriage as "ok" or "normal" in any way.


I agree, and think you should add it to the list of things that he must do (or conditions that he must satisfy) for you to consider remaining married to him.

And the new name is better.

I'm not a young woman--I'm 54 and showing my age. It was terrifying to me that the OW is 22 years old. But, I did as you suggested and deleted.

Good job changing your name. You are a beautiful and young 50 something, and that 22 years old piece of trash has nothing on you.

Did you ask your WH to write the NC letter which you will mail TONIGHT, and tell him you are going to give him tonight to provide you with all information, and then tomorrow schedule him a poly?

I'm guessing his response would show you how sincere he is about wanting to build a new and better marriage.

Write out your EP's, they have to start with NO CONTACT for life with his OW. If he balks at that, the very first thing, he is not serious.

Debra

I have been following your thread since the beginning and you have had the best advice so far.

After having gone through a dozen false recoveries and a whole lot of pain I have learned to spot a prime manipulator a mile off and your WH fits that description.

My advice to you would be that the only way for you to tell if your WH is genuinely interested in recovery and building a better marriage or if he's still just after more cake eating is to start the conversation your have planned to have with him tonight with requesting the NC letter and that he has NC with OW for life.

If your WH is willing to take this vital first step and no longer puts up a fight to do it then there is a little hope that he might be genuine this time but if he starts to become aggressive and evasive again then he is still just trying to manipulate you and cake eat.

If all goes well with the NC letter then I would suggest that you start working on a list of EP that you want your WH to adhere to including drawing up a post nup protecting you should he become wayward again (or continues to be so). If your WH agrees to this then there is alot of hope that he is willing to recover or build a better marriage.

just remember the EPs are NOT negotiable and the NC letter and NC for life with OW are seriously necessary and again NOT negotiable.

Yep. That's garbage. You busted him on his comments to WH about changing the locks. The locksmith is now worried that you may have a complaint about a privacy violation. He isn't supposed to be saying anything to anyone about his jobs.

Deb, i find it so frustrating that you can't stick to a plan for more than 10 minutes. Do you remember the plan you discussed this morning? Nothing has changed since then. NOTHING. Your drunken husband says a few words of fogbabble and your plan goes right out the window! You are allowing your drunken husband to drive the car and you are going to end up in a crash.

You have no plan and no hope unless your husband ends his affair. All the "counseling" in the world will not help you until and unless he ends his affair.

HE WILL NOT END HIS AFFAIR.

That means that your next step is Plan B. Ask him to move out. CAll another locksmith and change your locks. Then go into Plan B.

But for God's sake, stop messing around and allowing your addict of a husband to go drunk driving with YOUR LIFE. If you cannot follow a plan, you will not make it!!

Your crippled marriage is not over. You *ARE* living in that marriage TODAY. You have to back your words up with action, my friend. Just saying big words does not = actions.

There are no actions to back it up here.

Your husband likely has a keylogger on your computer and is reading this thread. Did you run some spyware to find out?

To check for a keylogger, install a new antivirus (avast is a free one) and run it. Any existing antivirus programs would likely already be compromised if a keylogger is installed.

Or buy a new computer and watch how quickly your WH gets interested in borrowing it.

Deb,

Will your H agree to NC and an NC letter? Will he agree to be transparent and end his secret second life? If no, change the locks today and ask him to leave. It is far to painful to keep watching him flaunt his affair. Tell him so!!!

FYI. For me, it was not until I told H that I had an attorney appointment and that I never wanted to see of speak with him again, that he finally agreed to fully commit to openness and honesty and our marriage. Our false recovery took alot out of me, physically and emotionally. I could have avoided most of it by asking H to leave earlier.

Great name change. FWIW, I turned 60 this year. My H is 55. His OW was 15 years younger than I. I had never worried much about my age before the A. I had always looked much younger than H. Bottom line is that WSes always "affair down" - pick someone inferior to their spouse on many levels. Currently, my H is head over heals in love with me and thinks OW is a sorry excuse for a human.

AM

The locksmith was abrasive and demeaning in his stance that a married woman cannot change the locks on her marital residence without a court order or her husband's permission. On the other hand, the locksmith did not call me to inform me that my husband was changing the locks on our business . . . .

I suspect the locksmith called my husband to tattle on me the moment after I got off the phone with him after scheduling the lock change. This situation with the locksmith infuriates me, but so does a lot of other stuff that takes priority and I need to direct my energy elsewhere.

If necessary, I will buy new locks from the hardware store and have my brother install them. Problem solved.

It'd be a lot cheaper. They aren't hard to install. Watch your brother do one and you'd probably be able to do the rest.